Indoor choices for grows !NEED SOME ADVICE!

[bubbiewubbs]

Let me start by saying if this is in the wrong section i apologize. This is my first post I can honestly say ive been trolling every post for the past few years and now things are starting to change legally and states closer to me are getting medical marijuana. So some relatives of mine have asked me for some help in setting up, maintaining, and well...pretty much everything. I have a pretty good budget. id say about 3-5k$ to work with. One person has crohn's dissease and another has suffered from injuries in neck and back and another has suffered from an extreme carwreck in her 20's which left a steel plate in her back and screws in her elbow. So in theory these guys hate traditional meds after an overdose from a friend. Just giving you this insight before you chime in with some good info. They are interested in a few specific strains and tinctures for their ailments so strain may not be an issue. They have been researching themselfs the different hybrids and indicas for pain But if a strain is good for certain types of grow feel free to mention your ideas.
Now im going to be using their attic with about 200 sq ft of space. They live in one of the most southern tropical states so im thinking heat may be an issue. The attic actually has 2 air vents in the ceiling coming from a heat pump system so airconditioned and carpeted flooring. Its a full finished room basically. They want to keep the operation no matter what i use available to tear down and put away if anything happens ouf of their control, unexpected long stays away, chance of moving (not likely its a huge house) etc etc. I have been looking at the 8 x 8 or 10 x 10 grow tents. I have read many home built SOG with the panda film but im not sure i could fabricate anything close to being as easily accommodating as some of the grow tents. So if you suggest one of these vs a manual built one please inform. (thanks in advance). I also have read Jorge Cervantes' book im sure most of us are aware of and watched all of his DVDs and pretty much been trolling the forums for info on hydro vs soil or aero etc. im looking to do about 40 -50 plants. They will be full size fem from seed at start then cloning son on and so forth..
OK now....
This is my first cannabis grow.

If using the tents should i do a soil grow for an easy buffer? Or should i go with a hydroponics setup? or i could even go with the aero's ive been just recently learning about. I have very extensively researched the life cycle of cannabis and have been a smoker for a long time so i think i can handle even some of the most difficult operations. I have one of the best gardens on the street honestly with some difficult flowering tropical trees. Im trying to find the best setup for maintaining a certain line of product that has consistancy and i can expect the same outcome via everything Goes accordingly every grow plus or minus a few yields. So from your experience or your own methods or discoveries feel free to chime in on what you would do if you had 2 10 x 10 gorilla grow tents. I dont have an issue with cloning or even a SOG automatic hydroponic setup (which was what i started with mentally...initially.) Thanks in advance. I dont like being spoon fed but im sure alot of the guys out west are alot more advance in hands on and way more friendly than us southern east coasters. Ive done alot of research and im just now getting the info on where and how i will be allowed to setup. Much love to everyone so far for providing me info in starting this pretty awesome adventure

 

[Vmino]

I just finished my first 5 plant grow, it was in soil and I can tell you that soil isn't the best option if you plan on doing 40-50 plants. It took us (3 guys) like 45 minutes to take the plants out of the tent and water them all at once. Even though we were in soil we did have some nutrient issues, have to admit that none of us actually has any previous gardening experience, nor did we use nice fertilizers, just cheap european off brand stuff. Also for so many plants I think a tent would be a waste, possibly use one for veg or for flower, I don't think you'll need 2. I'd probably go with a ebb and flow system, with 4-5 reservoirs although I do have to admit that I'm not well versed in the ways of hydro, best of luck!!!

 

[MajorCoco]

If I was starting from scratch again I'd go DWC or NFT. Aero feels like diminishing returns for increasing system complexity..

If it's just yourself working on the plants and space isn't an issue then the best way to grow will probably be the one which requires the least maintenance, which rules out training, lollipopping etc.

Worth keeping your cloning mothers in soil, so you don't lose them if your hydro pumps fail.

Sounds like fun. Enjoy!

 

[bubbiewubbs]

Yeah ive been looking at getting one of those and a few of the addon options. How many do you think you could get into an 8x8 if your using fem seeds. hybrids. idk what strain you grew and how big it got. were looking at a stable strain of white widow NL and some ocean grown kushes.

 

[rwbrock]

Wow, jumping in head first I see I typically would recommend soil for first time grower, but as pointed out this could become an issue due to the number of plants. You will want to do lots of research on what will work best for your space....When I think of attic I think of a space not easily accessed and you are going to have to think about watering (tables), drain, etc. Lights are going to cause lots of heat so AC will prob be required. Inline fans, etc to exhaust out. I would start small and work my way up as with anything there will be a learning curve and you will figure out some of what will or wont work for your space. If you are doing a SOG type of grow with lots of plants allow 1 sq. foot per plant. and take into consideration space required to work around your plants. Hydro would pretty much require daily maintenance where soil not so much. Ebb and flow is a pretty basic setup for first time hydro. Def check some of the grow journals on this site and see if you can find something similar so you can get some ideas of how they made their system efficient and issues that came up during grow. Def take some time to plan this one out if you plan on doing that many plants. In door growing can be much trickier than outdoor. I too consider myself to have a green thumb with my garden and fruits and veggies but indoor in my closet with MJ can be tricky. You have to dial in your environment first, then get a system down for how you want to grow, then dial that in and put that green thumb to work. Good luck, keep us posted!

 

[Slipon]

Wow, jumping in head first I see I typically would recommend soil for first time grower, but as pointed out this could become an issue due to the number of plants. You will want to do lots of research on what will work best for your space....When I think of attic I think of a space not easily accessed and you are going to have to think about watering (tables), drain, etc. Lights are going to cause lots of heat so AC will prob be required. Inline fans, etc to exhaust out. I would start small and work my way up as with anything there will be a learning curve and you will figure out some of what will or wont work for your space. If you are doing a SOG type of grow with lots of plants allow 1 sq. foot per plant. and take into consideration space required to work around your plants. Hydro would pretty much require daily maintenance where soil not so much. Ebb and flow is a pretty basic setup for first time hydro. Def check some of the grow journals on this site and see if you can find something similar so you can get some ideas of how they made their system efficient and issues that came up during grow. Def take some time to plan this one out if you plan on doing that many plants. In door growing can be much trickier than outdoor. I too consider myself to have a green thumb with my garden and fruits and veggies but indoor in my closet with MJ can be tricky. You have to dial in your environment first, then get a system down for how you want to grow, then dial that in and put that green thumb to work. Good luck, keep us posted!

all good advice, and I must agree, 50 plants in a attic will require some adjustments, I would really do a lot of considering about light source, with your budget LEDs might be a way to go, I know they are expensive, and you probably need to use a good part of 3K on the lights alone to cover 50 clones in a SoG but once they are bought they make up for it in power use and bulb replacements for HIDs every year and heat wont be as much of a issue so a AC might not even be necessary most of the year (a lot more power saved) and ventilation can be keep at a minimum

just a suggestion tho, and how I might do it, I had a 600W HPS and now I have a 288W LEDs panel, and I can easily see both 6x600W HPS or 8x288W LEDs cover that ground, then its just a matter of what you like

the 6x600W would cost like 1/3 but use +5 bulbs before the LEDs is done and cost like 40% more to run, if you then have to invest in a big AC and hugh ventilation systems/cool hood`s aso and maybe still be struggling with heat issues in the summer and what els come with HID lights (heat print if that is a issue ? fire risk) it might end up the same

Im sure you can hear I love my new LEDs and Im sure there is a ton of People in here that would tell you different and tell you to go for the HIDs (btw 600W vs 1K or 400W do give you most bang for your buck, watt-light output, if you choose to go that way)

 

[bubbiewubbs]

all good advice, and I must agree, 50 plants in a attic will require some adjustments, I would really do a lot of considering about light source, with your budget LEDs might be a way to go, I know they are expensive, and you probably need to use a good part of 3K on the lights alone to cover 50 clones in a SoG but once they are bought they make up for it in power use and bulb replacements for HIDs every year and heat wont be as much of a issue so a AC might not even be necessary most of the year (a lot more power saved) and ventilation can be keep at a minimum

just a suggestion tho, and how I might do it, I had a 600W HPS and now I have a 288W LEDs panel, and I can easily see both 6x600W HPS or 8x288W LEDs cover that ground, then its just a matter of what you like

the 6x600W would cost like 1/3 but use +5 bulbs before the LEDs is done and cost like 40% more to run, if you then have to invest in a big AC and hugh ventilation systems/cool hood`s aso and maybe still be struggling with heat issues in the summer and what els come with HID lights (heat print if that is a issue ? fire risk) it might end up the same

Im sure you can hear I love my new LEDs and Im sure there is a ton of People in here that would tell you different and tell you to go for the HIDs (btw 600W vs 1K or 400W do give you most bang for your buck, watt-light output, if you choose to go that way)

Hey Mr.
Thanks for the info. i had been looking into leds because of heat being an issue and the guy at the local hydro store yesterday told me the same thing. that too much and not enough of this and that u will just have a mess. he showed me the leds and also showed me the CFL setup. It wasnt very costly initial price and wattage. The gentlemen then said you could get some very good and powerful cfl's for veg then just stick to the hps/led for flower. this in mind to save more money for the veg room and cloning methods.... its June now and it is essentially an attic built into a living space room and the peak temp in the room as is was 73 at noon yesterday (thermostat set at 73 in the house) and both vents opened up to allow AC air into the room) and the low got to about 68 or so. And He also suggested a TITAN controlled flow and grow ebb kit with 12 pots and 4 more addon kit for flowering just as a start SMALL if you will. In an 8x8 with 16-18 containers growing some fem hybrids strains, WW,Crit,Pres kush, (height wont be an issue) how much light do you guys suggest. Considering LEDS or CFLs at this point. The guy at the store told me 4 600w hid setups for the 8x8 flowering. this seems a bit much just from what ive been reading and seen from setups from other people. but then again im not afraid to be over kill. i have found a store with pretty much everything i need to get started right away im just trying to get a heads up before making a couple 400$ purchases. ALSO If you all recommend a place that's cheaper for ballasts and bulbs and trays and whatnot pm me or let me know. And to be quite honest, by the look of it i may actually be building my own ebb and flow system to save 600$ for lighting. they are pretty simple designed. Thanks so much for the info into getting my feet wet and helping me slow down a little. (hopefully no spills)

 

[Slipon]

if your in the US I would for sure look in to Area 51 (lets see if Eraserhead comes by )

http://area51lighting.com/the160.html

595$ a pice, Im sure they can make you a nice deal for 4-8 of em


and yes CFLs do work well for Veg, now if you did your "home work" you would know that a plant in Veg "only" require about 1/3 of the light as a plant in flower demand to do good/optimal so I would suggest you to do a lot of research/reading, buy a few grow guide`s as well, with that budget and all the time and work invested in it, it would be plain stupid not to, like the guy yesterday, that couldn't understand why his Bud`s was dry and did`t smell of anything after drying em under the 400W MH !!!!

but back to the point, CFLs or tubes work very well, I use a similar set up, I use a 6 tube T5HO fixture to Veg with and a LED fixture to flower with

do some research here as well, need to find out what bulbs to use, what distance to keep em at aso

 

[rwbrock]

I do think the ebb and flow (ebb and grow) style would work out well for you in hydro. Automated system but does require checking the res, checking PH and topping off on a regular basis. There would be some extra devices required as well like PH,PPM meters etc. All good stuff you should have regardless. I would look into a T5 fixture for Veg....I have a buddy who has a brain tumor and legally grows in his house, he dedicated two separate bedrooms for his grow. One where he clones and starts seedlings and vegs, he uses smaller CFLs to get them going....puts them under t5 for Veg....he takes it a step further and has a couple 400's MH they go under for the last couple weeks before they get put in the other room where he has 3 1000 HPS. Super clean system as everything is broken into stages and is using a drip system with rockwool cubes. Only issue being he uses a lot of electricity especially in the summer.

I am also intrigued by LED and would love to switch over at some point. I do a small closet grow and it makes a lot of sense for me. the knock on LED until now was they were not very effective for flower, light penetration is not as good and does not cover a large area and of course the price for a good LED ($500 to $1000 per light). I still would argue a 600w is going to be your most efficient for flower and much lower upfront costsl. But as Slipon pointed out the associated costs in the long run will be much higher. It is my opinion you would need a tad experience on training your plants to get the most out of that light as well where a 600 you just plug it in and grow with less worry of training and plant heights. I have seen lots of smaller setups where LED works very well...but yet to see a bigger more commercial one as effective. It sounds like heat may not be as big of issue for you but know with the HID lights you will need inline fans, ducting, heat removal, etc. Managing heat is always an issue with HID lights. One 600 can cover a 4'x'4 area pretty well so 4 would cover that area....you can also look into light movers as well. I would stick to T5 for veg and look into the 600s or LED for flower for a nice basic two area setup. Sounds like you are on the right track.

Also I never mind paying a bit more for things at my local hydro store. I like to support local mom and pop businesses and establish a relationship with those guys. They have been a great help to me over the years and mine typically provide discounts to items marked on the shelf. I am lucky though guys by me are pretty honest and strait forward. Sometimes a newb can walk into the shop and get sold a bill of goods and get a bunch of stuff that is not required. So always good to ask questions here to be able to speak more intelligent so when you do go in with specific questions or concerns it is easier for you to get what you need and not the new latest and greatest.

Once you do get going I would love to follow the setup and grow! Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Roweniii]

I've had great luck with DWC and I'm definitely a novice! I've had 6 girls in flower and 6 in veg right next door (obviously a wall in the middle), each side with their own reservoir and each plant had it's own bucket. The separate reservoir feeding 6 plants made it much easier to check ph and add water or nutrients (hey, if they're drinking a gallon every day that's great!) and a multimeter like this on eBay is easy to plug in, calibrate and leave alone for easy monitoring.

I also use CFLs for ease. 18 bulbs @ 42w each equals 756w and I just swap out the bulbs when it comes time to swap to flowering.

When I say "novice" let me illustrate. I used to go to Home Depot/Lowes and says "Give me a shrub for the front yard that I canNOT kill" Now I plan on growing some grapes in the back yard next spring.

Great thinking ahead, too. I think the majority of indoor problems probably arise from lack of planning and forethought.

 

[whocares100]

Well here's my thoughts, all that water in an attic, how are u going to get it there and control it with spills and such, I had some stuff upstairs and it was a pain hauling gallon jugs up 4 at a time to water...