Brotherjericho's stupid questions about DIY and such

[brotherjericho]

Well, I was about to start another thread about a specific question about LEDs when I realized it would be better to just consolidate all of my questions into one thread.

First one to open the thread: Cree XT-E 3000k WW vs Luxeon ES WW, 2700k, which would be better when mixed with Luxeon ES royal blues, Cree XP-E reds and possible Luxeon ES FR? I get that the Cree WW is much more efficient, and that is important, but it looks like the Luxeon has a much better curve for growing with peaks around 640-650 nm. The Cree looks to top off around 625nm, but that leaves a lot of its curve in the sub 600nm range. What kind of shift would you expect on the Luxeon ES 2700k if it had been binned at 85C?

The idea here is to be efficient but to also fill in the needed gaps. I can play with the reds and far reds to do that but I wonder how much wasted light there is with the Crees because much of its curve is in the green-orange range? I do want some in that range, I think that is part of the reason for using whites.

So what would you use, and why?

 

[SnotBoogie]

I would use a mix of both personally, if they would be driven at the same current or on separate drivers.

I have the R3 bin warm white XTEs and like them, but havent triedt he luxeon ES WWs.

I also notice you said you'll be using royal blues, will you be driving these at a lower current? and with wide beam angle? because otherwise they will limit how close, and therefore efficiency, of your other LEDs (because they will bleach if in the optimal range for, say, reds).

 

[brotherjericho]

I was going to go with blues, but I'm not sure they will be necessary. I was using http://buildmyled.com/custom-led-strip/ to spec Apollo and Bysen, but I don't think it is very accurate when you start talking about Crees at different currents. If I drive XT-E WW and CW at 700ma and the reds at 500-550ma or thereabouts, I get a much different spectrum according to http://ledspecs.com/ where you can actually plug in certain Crees and the current. Using the latter tool, I can drop the blues altogether because I think I can get similar results mixing CW and WW. So now I'm looking at mostly just mixing WW, CW, and reds. I'm still on the fence about how much 660nm I want.

I wish they listed the Rebels.

 

[brotherjericho]

Second question...

If you were building a panel for flowering only, but it was to be used for indicas and sativas, what would you do with blues and far reds? I've seen these colors mentioned more than once when hypothesizing what it takes to grow either.

Right now I'm not focusing on far reds, I've not seen anything that supports having more 660nm than 630nm. I want some in there, but not much, and maybe I'll just let the whites supply it. But what about blue?

 

[SnotBoogie]

far red = ~730nm, you mean deep red which is ~660nm.

If i were to use blues in any panel they would be driven at lower current and wide beam angle as i said. However i dont think they're necessary at all in most situations and probably wont use any in my next flower panel. I'll use a few cool or neutral whites maybe, but not many even.

I personally have about 30% of my output in deep red (660nm). warm whites are giving a good bit of ~600-630nm so that supplies this area in my setup.

 

[brotherjericho]

far red = ~730nm, you mean deep red which is ~660nm.

Doh! One two many draws on the vape! Yes, deep red.

 

[captainmorgan]

If you look at these chlorphyll absorption charts you would think more 660 than 630.I have a cabinet with induction and T5's,it's 360 watts 5000k and 216 watts with 4 T5 bulbs with 2 being mostly 630 and 2 being mostly 660 and the plants seem to love it.I would say I have more 630 because of the 5000k's but that was more a product of how I use them.It's 3 120 watt 5000k induction that I use for veg and add the T5's for flower.Start the clones under 1 and add the other 2 as they grow then the T5's at flower.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chlorophyll+absorption&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sv3IUZbBHeSQyAGm7IDACQ&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1650&bih=851

 

[hyroot]

Bro J pm Guod, Stardustsailor and Ganja 2 or anyone else in the Astir crew. Those guys know leds probably better than anyone. These guys are also very technical with their jargin. I wouldn't be surprised if they went to MIT.

EH even made the sgs panels following their lead with spectrum. The a51 sgs spectrum is based on the Astir spectrum. EH said that himself. I guess you could say those guys are trail blazers...

 

[brotherjericho]

I actually read through most of the Astir thread as well as the HOT5 one. If I read it enough and s/he didn't have a change of thought, I think Stardustsailor had some poor experience with deep red, and didn't like the idea of too much, or using any 660nm chips as part of the fixture. Then you go over to Hans who has 2 Rebel deep reds in his panel. So I'm on the fence with including 660 specifically as opposed to getting what I need from the whites. That is where I go back to the debate between the differences in the Rebel ES WW and Cree XT-E, the former has more in the upper red region whereas the Cree is just more efficient by far.

One thing I like about the idea of using screws to hold the stars to the heat sink is that I can always pop out a couple 630s and replace them with 660s since both will be driven with the same amperage.

 

[Chronikool]

One thing I like about the idea of using screws to hold the stars to the heat sink is that I can always pop out a couple 630s and replace them with 660s since both will be driven with the same amperage.

Yip. You can use screws but make sure you have some thermal paste between the star and heatsink aswell.

 

[hyroot]

there s a heat sink that has slots so the stars can be adjusted. i forgot who makes it. it has a rack on the heat sync for the driver. but i would rather have a remote driver.

here is an oldie but good read on diy led on another forum

http://buymarijuanaseeds.com/community/threads/how-to-build-your-diy-led-array.117772/

edit: found it
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/categories/Heatsinks/

http://makersled.com/?page_id=335

 

[brotherjericho]

Does anyone know what type of current Hans uses on his reds and blues? My calculations of his wattages at various settings indicates he's using 700ma but surely he's not driving the reds to their max.

 

[brotherjericho]

there s a heat sink that has slots so the stars can be adjusted. i forgot who makes it. it has a rack on the heat sync for the driver. but i would rather have a remote driver.

here is an oldie but good read on diy led on another forum

http://buymarijuanaseeds.com/community/threads/how-to-build-your-diy-led-array.117772/

edit: found it
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/categories/Heatsinks/

http://makersled.com/?page_id=335

I like that Makersled, saw it first a day or so ago. Expensive though, and looks to be only 4" wide. So I'm probably going with 18" of this one: http://www.heatsinkusa.com/8-460-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink-with-t-slots/ . Don't get all of the extras but its twice as wide and ~$57 for the size I want.

 

[brotherjericho]

Does anyone know what type of current Hans uses on his reds and blues? My calculations of his wattages at various settings indicates he's using 700ma but surely he's not driving the reds to their max.

Looks like he is using 700ma for the whole panel. https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/633304-if-you-new-led-want-13.html#post8872705

 

[hyroot]

yeah a 700mA constant driver. but only has 33 leds so its ok at that high mA, unlike apollo grow led. evergrow just emailed me asking if i got their info before but still no pricing lol

heat sink usa has heat sinks for $5-$10 but you have to drill yourself.

in sep. im probably going to get another 4x4 tent and try my hand at diy. i learned how to solder pretty good in audio school, its pretty easy once you get the hang of it. its easy to clean up sloppy
welds

I want to try and build a hans style panel with white leds and red. then an all white one too.

Rrog makes his own 300w leds using ww and nw and has good results. he is sometimes in the rols thread but he is mostly on the seed depot forum

 

[brotherjericho]

So you don't think pushing the reds to their max is a bad thing for longevity?

 

[hyroot]

yes. driving led's softer will increase longevity. so if you run more watts / volts than hans . Running 550mA to 500mA would be better.


its so hard to type. mid chop break. hash all over my fingers. i so need to go to sleep. the sun is coming up. good thing i don't work today

 

[brotherjericho]

yes. driving led's softer will increase longevity. so if you run more watts / volts than hans . Running 550mA to 500mA would be better.


its so hard to type. mid chop break. hash all over my fingers. i so need to go to sleep. the sun is coming up. good thing i don't work today

As it stands I'm looking at 60 pieces, 30 per targeted plant. Right now I am using a PG180 and ~156w of 3000k PLL for the two sides of my 2x2 tent. So each fixture sits over two plants when I pack the tent (almost always!). I am still playing around with the mix, mostly debating the ratio of WW:NW:R:dR. Originally I was basically 1:2 white to red, but I'm thinking of flipping it, roughly. I'm using http://ledspecs.com/ to come up with a mix, but its not entirely what I need because it does not have the NW so I'm guestimating by using CW at a hypothetical 1 CW=1.5 NW for blue level. I do want a bit of blue for stretch inhibition as well as for sativas, but I don't know how much I should have for a balanced panel for growing indicas as well.

Good night (morning).

 

[SnotBoogie]

i run my LZ-1 reds at 1000ma. :3

With adequate cooling its fine to drive at max current. Yes im sure it will shorten their lifespan a little, but i dont think its significant. Cooling is the main thing.

 

[brotherjericho]

Here is the Hans Panel



Here is one of my latest 30 pc mixes using 16 WW: 4 CW: 8 R: 2 DR. Note that the blue and red is close to the same, with a broader range in the red section so more wavelengths for absorption. I could swap out the reds for all deep red but I'm not sure if I'm sold on that yet.