Riot seeds

[greenghost420]

damn that sucks hes a cocksucker scamming thief...i was just looking at his site and he got some crazy shit! too good to be true...even swerve is on this thread talking shit about riot. riot must be a bitch is swerve is serving him. lol

 

[Jogro]

damn that sucks hes a cocksucker scamming thief...i was just looking at his site and he got some crazy shit! too good to be true...even swerve is on this thread talking shit about riot. riot must be a bitch is swerve is serving him. lol

IMO Riot is the prototypical "pollen chucker" and he charges way too much for his gear.

On the first thing, most of his catalog consists of just S1s or F1s from popular/clone only lines. In fact, just looking at his catalog, one gets the distinct impression that just about all of his "strains" are actually just one-off crosses of various clones he's acquired.

That's "OK" in the sense that starting with top genetics, many of these crosses will result in excellent (even if untested and unstable) offspring. But merely selfing plants or crossing them isn't really "breeding" in any sense of the term. When a guy has only been in the business for a few years, but is offering 30+ different lines you KNOW there is no possible way he's "worked" any of them, let alone worked them with good selection for 6-8 generations to create some sort of actual "strain".

I don't even have a problem with this sort of pollen chucking, so long as the seller actually uses the clones they say they were using, and is upfront about what they did. But this kind of simple one-off crossing isn't technically demanding, nor does it take a lot of time, and there is no way it justifies Riot's top dollar asking price.

As one example I'm aware of, until he sold out, Riot was charging $140 for a six pack of Green Crack S1 (and that was the "on sale" price). That's $23.33/ceed. He's still asking the same price for a bunch of other F1s with Green Crack as one parent (eg Green Crack x Blue Dream, GC x Bubba Kush, GC x Girl Scout Cookes, etc), not to mention a number of other F1s with other clone only parents.

Disregarding everything else about the guy or the actual quality of the gear, more than $20 a pop is a HUGE amount of money for ANY ceed. Its an insane amount for what is effectively an unstable self-cross of a widely available "clone only" strain that this guy had nothing whatsover to do with creating, spreading, or popularizing.

Sickmeds from Spain charges only $76 for a ten pack of the exact same Green Crack S1s; that's $7.60/seed which is almost exactly 1/3 the price per bean compared to Riot.

As another comparison, a 6 pack of fem Kosher Kush from Reserva Privada only costs $91. That's $15.25/ceed, which is still pretty high, but you're paying it for a recent multiple award winning strain from a top "name" breeding house, one of the most respected in the business right now. And its still 1/3 less than what Riot was charging for just this line and many of his others.

 

[greenghost420]

On his site i thought packs of regs were 10 packs,thats absolute rape!

 

[Jogro]

On his site i thought packs of regs were 10 packs,thats absolute rape!

His fems come in six packs.

Note that if you're just selfing a female clone only plant, or doing an F1 cross between two of them, all the created ceeds from this cross will necessarily be feminized. There is no way to cross two female plants to create male ones.

To me the term "rape", implies lack of consent. In Riot's defense, he can ask anything he likes for his gear; nobody is forcing anyone to do business with the guy.

IMO, it simply doesn't make sense to pay what he's asking, when you can get similar "pollen chuck" ceeds for a fraction of the price elsewhere, or alternatively pay somewhat less for absolutely top level genetics from established top level breeders.

 

[brimck325]

for someone that hates tsd and quite a few of the people over there, you sure do keep very close tabs on everyone.

 

[greenghost420]

its rape in the date rape sense, the kind of rape where you still love the person after lol

 

[Jogro]

its rape in the date rape sense, the kind of rape where you still love the person after lol

In this case, I prefer the term "rip off", as in "$150 a pack for an S1 pollen chuck? What a ripoff!"

I'm not knocking the actual genetics; at least some of them do look sort of interesting, just in my opinion not nearly enough so to justify the astronomical asking prices.

Apart from the pricing issue, I find it hard to "love" Riot on account of his persistent unprofessional behavior.

Oh. . .apparently ALL his strains come in six-packs including regs. Per his "terms of service":

ALL Seeds are 6 Seeds per pack, as we've done the last 7 years.

 

[gudkarma]

for someone that hates tsd and quite a few of the people over there, you sure do keep very close tabs on everyone.

keeping tabs, no.

the word is "friends"... & i got many.

plus im a fiend for content analysis.

as far as how you think i keep "tabs", my memory for the written word is near photographic.
i never forget anything i've read. ever.

so, i can remember 1000s of posts & comments & articles & books.

 

[gudkarma]

if you cant trust a guy... you cant trust the crosses made.

look at riot.
you trust this guy uses the genetics he claims?
especially when he's proven himself a fraud who lies about what he does.

& if you add the insanely potent logic Jogro just dropped... you'd be crazy to invest one nickle with that clown.

 

[colonuggs]

well I know he got my pre98 and ecsd for his chemdog91 and another strain ...but when I got the cuts they came with mites

he has good genetics...acquired from me and a few others

 

[gudkarma]

me.
i've never seen a cross with bubba that had ZERO "genetic essence" of bubba.

none.

swing kid : chem d x bubba

if you ask me, i believe , i grew a chem S1.

 

[greenghost420]

one of the ones that had me most interested was the 98 bubba. lol

 

[Jogro]

well I know he got my pre98 and ecsd for his chemdog91 and another strain ...but when I got the cuts they came with mites

he has good genetics...acquired from me and a few others

Would you care to recount for the board, the circumstances in which you sent Riot these cuts?
That might be interesting.

if you cant trust a guy... you cant trust the crosses made.

look at riot.
you trust this guy uses the genetics he claims?
especially when he's proven himself a fraud who lies about what he does.

Personally, whenever possible I try to avoid doing business with known BS artists. Not just Riot, but also several others in the game who are cut from the same cloth. Again, there are so many good breeders out there with good genetics nowadays, that there is just no need to get involved with these sorts.

That said, we know the guy actually has (or had) access to "elite" clone only lines (eg see above). I don't have any reason to believe that he's not actually using these in his pollen chucks.

With respect to Green Crack S1, I've seen pictures from a grow report on his beans, and the plants looked similar to the ones I've grown myself from Sickmeds (or at least as similar as you're going to get with an unstable hybrid S1 like this). If you take out the profanity and hyperbole, his description of the line was reasonable. So based on my experience here, I'd say at least in this case, the beans seemed to be what he claimed.

Doesn't mean it makes sense to pay over $20 a bean for these or other similar unworked hybrids, but that's a different topic covered above.

As to why his Bubba cross had "zero essence" of Bubba, I don't know. Maybe as you suggest the cross was a deliberate fraud that contained no actual Bubba genetics. Maybe it was just sloppy breeding practice where Riot accidentally switched some pollen, beans, or labels along the way. That's still pretty bad, but its at least a bit different than intentional fraud.

Or maybe it was just a shi#$y cross. That's the problem with pollen chucks. Instead of getting the best traits from each parent in the offspring, sometimes when you do crosses like this, you end up with the worst. Its almost invariable that F1 or S1 ceeds made from clone only lines end up worse than EITHER parent. If it were that easy to make "elite clone" quality ceeds, there would be no need for "clone only" lines and no such thing. The best you can realistically hope for are some good phenos that approximate some of the better traits from the parent(s), and in something like a pack of only six beans, you have to assume that you're probably NOT going to find them in any given pack.

 

[colonuggs]

Would you care to recount for the board, the circumstances in which you sent Riot these cuts?
That might be interesting.

its was about 2 yrs ago over on potpimp....he sent me 2 cuts I sent him 2 cuts back...back then he was still collecting strains

I met some really cool peeps on potpimp before the shit hit the fan... the US guys are pretty cool and a few of the UK bros are too

Got me the Exo cheese from the UK thanks to that site

 

[tags420]

Interesting read here.
He hit me up on TSD because I have BlackBerrySoda and know the breeder, which riot got double purple dojo from. He seemed to know his shit pretty well. This was just like a month ago. I had never heard of or about him before that. He wanted to trade beans, I said I would let him know and just kinda faded out. After reading all this it surprised me but good thing I'm lazy and didn't want to deal with him I guess.

 

[dat130ysmurf]

For the record I wasn't sent here by anyone for any reason....Nor did I come here to start any $#!T.......I'm not a fanboy of matt riot or his gear, but I will at least give the guy a chance.....I do appreciate all the warnings, so if I get scammed it's my own fault and I'll let it be known, same goes if not....something else I can say is one thing that made me decide to give Riot gear a chance is the fact that Bodhi posted at "the other site" in TSCT (page 2174, post 21734) that matt's one of the good guys.........at the end of the day we've all made mistakes, some bigger than others and everyone deserves not only A chance but a SECOND chance.....

 

[greenghost420]

damn what a contrast ....bodhi has 12 beans for 65 while riots is 160 for 6...

 

[greenghost420]

what did u try smurf?

 

[medicalguy508]

Well I dont no what matt riot charges all I no is all they take is credit cards and that leaves your credit card number in who knows who's hands. But as far as the price even if you get one keeper and you get 2 ounces off it on the low side the pack of seeds paid for themself. Seed prices are irelevent because most of the time they pay for themselfs over and over again so dont let the price blind you!! If you get 4 females out of a pack of 10 seeds your looking at 8 ounces thats 3200.00 worth of buds at 300 a ounce I myself dont like feminized seeds due to hermie issues even the best breeders have this problem with fem seeds. Just trying to help not downing your post

In this case, I prefer the term "rip off", as in "$150 a pack for an S1 pollen chuck? What a ripoff!"

I'm not knocking the actual genetics; at least some of them do look sort of interesting, just in my opinion not nearly enough so to justify the astronomical asking prices.

Apart from the pricing issue, I find it hard to "love" Riot on account of his persistent unprofessional behavior.

Oh. . .apparently ALL his strains come in six-packs including regs. Per his "terms of service":

 

[Jogro]

Seed prices are irelevent because most of the time they pay for themselfs over and over again so dont let the price blind you!!

So if your weed is worth $3200, would you pay $50/ceed?
How about $1000/ceed?
At what point is it too much?

I agree that compared to cost of your setup, energy, nutes, and your time, the cost of ceeds may be relatively small. The more you're growing, the less important the ceed cost is compared to everything else. But there is still a fundamental value proposition there.

Regardless of the street value of the final product, why should anyone pay more for ceeds than they have to?

Even if I can afford to spend $500/bean, doesn't mean it makes sense to do so. Again, Riot can charge whatever he likes. . . I have no problem with him ASKING top dollar for his lines. But I'm not willing to PAY top dollar for them, until/unless I believe they are better than almost everything else out there, which in this case, I simply don't. If I can get equivalent quality genetics for a fraction of the price, why shouldn't I?

If you get 4 females out of a pack of 10 seeds your looking at 8 ounces thats 3200.00 worth of buds at 300 a ounce

Pretty sure 8 x $300 is $2400 (not $3200). Also, for what its worth, Riot's packs are 6 ceeds each. Presumably the feminized ones will give you 6 females.

These details aside, and much more important, the whole reason you're growing yourself is so that you DON'T have to pay $300/ounce. That's a prohibition retail price, not a realistic cost for a medical grower who is growing purely for personal use. If you're not selling, the "street value" is irrelevant.

If you're looking at this from a simple business marginal cost perspective, with any given grow, your setup, lights, and nute costs will all be roughly the same and fixed. In other words, no matter which stain you grow, you're going to be using roughly the same amount of lights, nutes, etc. Since other costs of the grow are effectively fixed, the ceed cost is one of the only ones you can control. As a related matter, if you're growing only 1-2 small plants for personal use, the ceed cost can be a significant fraction of the overall cost.

Bottom line is, I think it DOES matter if you're paying $7/ceed vs $23/ceed, and depending on how deep your pockets are, it can matter a LOT. If you're working on a limited budget, you can potentially get several packs of good to excellent ceeds for the same cost as one from Riot.