Paramilitary Police Raids Gone Wrong with map
- Thread starter Winter Woman
- Start date
Winter Woman
Well-Known Member
“I broke the law yesterday,” writes George Mason economics professor Alex Tabarrok, “and I probably will break the law tomorrow. Don’t mistake me, I have done nothing wrong. I don’t even know what laws I have broken. … It’s hard for anyone to live today without breaking the law. Doubt me? Have you ever thrown out some junk mail that … was addressed to someone else? That’s a violation of federal law punishable by up to five years in prison.” Tabarrok notes that lawyer Harvey Silverglate thinks the typical American commits “Three Felonies a Day” — the title of Silverglate’s book on the subject.
As The Wall Street Journal has reported, lawmakers in Washington have greatly eroded the notion of mens rea — the principle that you need criminal intent in order to commit a crime. Thanks to a proliferating number of obscure offenses, Americans now resemble the condemned souls in Jonathan Edwards’ “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” — spared from perdition only by the temporary forbearance of those who sit in judgment.
“What once might have been considered simply a mistake,” The Journal explains, is now “punishable by jail time.” And as 20-year-old Elizabeth Daly has now learned, you can go to jail even when the person making the mistake wasn’t you.
As The Wall Street Journal has reported, lawmakers in Washington have greatly eroded the notion of mens rea — the principle that you need criminal intent in order to commit a crime. Thanks to a proliferating number of obscure offenses, Americans now resemble the condemned souls in Jonathan Edwards’ “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” — spared from perdition only by the temporary forbearance of those who sit in judgment.
“What once might have been considered simply a mistake,” The Journal explains, is now “punishable by jail time.” And as 20-year-old Elizabeth Daly has now learned, you can go to jail even when the person making the mistake wasn’t you.
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
The world is going "cray cray", just stay indoors & smoke weed.. 
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
that's the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
ignorance, neglect, and any number of other things can lay at the bottom of a crime with no criminal intent involved.
for example, what about a parent whose illiterate child has a severe peanut allergy, yet who buys M&Ms and leaves them lying around where his child can easily get them? there's no criminal intent, but that parent's child can easily die from the parent's neglect.
let's say you were just changing the dial on the radio while you were driving and happen to mow down a kid who ran into the street: no criminal intent was involved, but that child died because you weren't paying attention to the road.
i could go on and on with counterexamples that illustrate that absurdity of the notion in question.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
and how the hell is jose guerena the "death of an innocent"?
the police had a warrant to search his house and when they came in, he was aiming at them with an AR-15. that was just one of two examples i clicked.
sorry, when you're pointing your AR-15 at police who have a lawful warrant on your home, that is called suicide by cop.
the police had a warrant to search his house and when they came in, he was aiming at them with an AR-15. that was just one of two examples i clicked.
sorry, when you're pointing your AR-15 at police who have a lawful warrant on your home, that is called suicide by cop.
Winter Woman
Well-Known Member
At 9:30 a.m. on May 5, 2011, officers from the Pima County SWAT team served a warrant on the home of Jose Guerena, an honorably discharged Marine and veteran of two combat tours in Iraq. Pima County SWAT officers approached the Guerena residence and announced the service of a search warrant and sounded a siren. Guerena was asleep after working the night shift at a mine when his wife woke him, saying that she heard noises outside and a that man was at their window. Guerena told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son and grabbed an AR-15 rifle. SWAT officers breached the front door and saw Guerena pointing his rifle at them. The officers fired 71 rounds, hitting Guerena with 20 and mortally wounding him. Guerena never disabled his weapon's safety. The officers retreated from the front of the house and searched neighboring residences that had been hit by bullets that penetrated the far side of the Guerena home. Guerena's wife, Vanessa, asked emergency operators for help via telephone while police remained outside for approximately 45 minutes. Guerena had been arrested a couple years earlier, but had no criminal convictions and the police found nothing illegal in his home. Guerena's brother was the primary focus of a drug investigation that brought police to the Guerena residence. The OathKeepers, an organization of current and former military and law enforcement personnel that encourages non-violent disobedience of unlawful orders to infringe on the rights of U.S. citizens, marched in protest of the Guerena raid. Sources: Fernanda Echevarri, SWAT raid fatal drama is revealed in 911 call, Arizona Daily Star, May 14, 2011. Brother of Marine and Iraq War vet killed by Arizona SWAT team was the focus of drug probe, U.K. Daily Mail, June 3, 2011. Hundreds march in protest for Jose Guerena, KVOA.com, May 30, 2011.
~71 rounds and he was innocent the police was looking for his brother. ~
minnesmoker
Well-Known Member
I was in one of those!!! Well, technically 2, cuz of the marshals and all. But, dude, they suck. Seriously tryin' to shoot the dogs, threatening my dear old mum with a full auto. (wouldn't even let her pee without a fuckin' rifle pointed at her.) Guess why they want me! DWI. Well, Suspicion of DWI... a misd. warrant was put out because I had moved like 2 fuckin' years before they sent the ticket. I was on vacation, got a call, arranged to surrender, blah blah, and then some dirty shit happened, and they SRT'd my ass. The Marshal's service was a lot more understandable. I was, at that point, wanted for having filleted, or having threatened to fillet, the arresting officer and his family (details weren't released -- I just threatened.) After a year of looking for me, they tried to come down like the hammer of god. Instead, they just fucked up some awesome sex. They were all "What's that in your shorts?" ... Dude, really? Kept telling they were going to shoot me, I kept telling them "than point the fuckin' thing AT me!"
BTW, DWI ... .083. Dismissed as criminal, based on time served and "no same or similar offenses between the time of the offense and now, a period of almost five years." License and fines were paid 3 years before I was arrested. And almost 5 years before I went to court, after posting bond.
SRT/SWAT/ESR, etc. All bullshit, it's not paramilitary. They ARE state sanctioned, they ARE in uniform, representative of the state. They are legitimate (and just as fuckin' ignorant) military.
BTW, DWI ... .083. Dismissed as criminal, based on time served and "no same or similar offenses between the time of the offense and now, a period of almost five years." License and fines were paid 3 years before I was arrested. And almost 5 years before I went to court, after posting bond.
SRT/SWAT/ESR, etc. All bullshit, it's not paramilitary. They ARE state sanctioned, they ARE in uniform, representative of the state. They are legitimate (and just as fuckin' ignorant) military.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
he stopped being innocent the second he pointed his AR-15 at police serving a warrant.
smart people fight in court and win a settlement, dumb people fight on the spot and get 71 bullets in their body.
his brother was clearly involved in a drug ring, that's how they got the warrant to check out his place due to possible involvement.
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
UB. You do realize that being a medical marijuana grower and having a patient could potentially see you facing the same charges don't you? Or has that fact been over looked by such a smart person as yourself ??
slowbus
New Member
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
that's why i'm of the mindset to not aim firearms at police serving warrants.
silasraven
Well-Known Member
pleasee tell me you have another example besides poor josey.
Balzac89
Well-Known Member
You are missing the point. He didn't know it was the police.
He woke up at 930am after working a 12 hour over night shift, to his wife telling him someone was breaking into his house.
Stillbuzzin
Well-Known Member
UBuck missed this one by a mile.