DIY Ebb & Flow - I'm learning!

[Belle of Buds]

Hi all. I decided it start a new thread to document my DIY Ebb and Flow system. I've tried DWC, I've done coco, I've used soil and super soil and now I'm ready for something new.

My first project started like this:
https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/649762-mini-dwc-grow-poison.html

Basically, in case you don't want to follow the link, I made a DWC bucket out of a 1 gallon ice cream container and grew a small plant. My original intention was to veg the plant large enough to pull a dozen clones off of it and then fill my flood table with clones. That didn't go so well. The plant didn't grow as large or as branchy as I had hoped and bottom line, I ended up with three decent clones.

So to start my new grow, which I planned to contain a dozen plants, I popped a 10 pack of Bubba 76 regulars. Nine of them germinated so I have 12 plants. I realize that I will lose some to the wrong sex, but oh well...

After much research, I decided that $300+ was too much to invest in an ebb and flow system. I love DIY projects when it comes to growing so I set off to make my own.

Materials List:
Mixing tub - 24 x 30
Drain kit - 1/2" and 3/4" plugs with filter tops and extenders
Sterlite tub for reservoir - 15 gallon
5" net pots
Lots of hydroton

Stuff I already had:
160gph submersible pump
Air stones and air pumps x 2
3/4" food grade plastic tubing - clear
1/2" food grade plastic tubing - clear

Total price (including what I paid for the stuff I already had from previous grows) $97.

Continue reading for pics of the assembly

 

[Belle of Buds]

First, I prepped the reservoir. I bought a black storage container to keep out light. This one had a very nice, very thick lid with a diamond pattern that was very handy. Sorry about the odd angles of some of the pictures. My only camera right now is my phone, and it's not a great phone at that.

I wanted to be able to do a res change without unhooking all the tubes or moving the res, so I marked the lid and cut it at about 1/3 so that I have a piece I can remove without disturbing the rest. Then, using the diamond pattern, I cut holes for my fill and drain tubes.























I propped my table on two milk crates so that it sat about an inch higher than the reservoir. I'm not entirely sure why the picture is upside down...but you get the idea Aligned with the holes in the lid, I used a paddle bit and cut holes for my drain tubes. Water comes in through the 1/2" tube, through the filter and exits through the overflow tube, which has stackable extenders to set and adjust the water height. I initially set my flood depth to 2". I have increased that to 3" as the plants got a little bigger.


















Then just add water, air stones, hydroton and plants and I've got a running system!


















And the best part was today. I did my first res change. The system's been running for 10 days, flooding 3x a day for 15 minutes and I must say, I'm VERY pleased with the results. The res change was a piece of cake. I'm 50 years old this year and I like easy... LOL

My particular set up has an added bonus. My grow tent is in my master bathroom, where there used to be a large corner tub. We removed the tub, which had jacuzzi jets and found that we now have a drain, a set of water faucets, and a plug on an independent breaker. PERFECT. My light is plugged into the plug and that is the only thing on that breaker so power issues are nearly non-existent. And today, I found out just how handy it was to have the water and drain so close... this is the drain hole. I just drop my 1/2" tubing down the drain, connect it to the pump and let it go.


















And these are my babies, 10 days into their veg stage. The three on the far left are Poison clones and the other nine are Bubba 76 seedlings.

 

[Belle of Buds]

Okay, now that I have everything set up, here's the details of the grow:

I have a 600w MH/HPS light in a 4'x4' grow tent.
I'm growing Bubba 76 from Emerald Triangle and Veneno (Poison) from Eva Seeds
I have a 12 gallon reservoir with two airstones and a pump.
My table floods to a depth of 3" at 10am, 4pm, and 10pm.
The flood table is 24 x 30 x 7" deep
The lights are currently on a 16 hour cycle for a couple more weeks (6am to 10pm)

For nutrients, I am using DynaGro and Vitamino, with a little H2O2 and Epsom salts (dissolved in warm water). My water out of the tap is outrageous (9.3ph) so I have to do some extreme pH management, but other than that, the system is pretty maintenance free. I just ran the last 10 days with zero slime and relatively stable pH levels between 5.8 and 6.2.

 

[bazookajoe]

Sounds good to me I just made a EnF with the same tub, I'm usin 27- 2liter bottles with the tops cut off as pots with hydroton or the gold label 80/20 . I just made a bubble cloner too so I got 20 cuts in that as a trial run. I just found out ill b travelin to jersey for work for prolly 6 weeks so I gotta while to wait til I can fil er up! I'm orderin a 600, upgradig to 6" fan n filter and gettin some beans when I get back.

Ill be tuned in here for sure, I love diy grows! Hope u get more females then males!
Keep it green

 

[smokinafatty]

Nice, thanks for taking the time to post this. It's the first thread I've subscribed to and I hope to watch these grow and learn more about EnF.

 

[NightOwlBono]

Looks great so far.but your using a High Pressure Sodium bulb right now from the looks of the photos,save that for bloom.

You should be using a Metal Halide to veg.


sorry if you know this already,but on my computer the photos look orange

 

[Belle of Buds]

Hey everybody. Thanks for joining in!

And yeah, NightOwl, I'm using the HPS for vegging... I dropped the MH about a month ago while moving some stuff and can't afford a new one right now so the HPS is all I got. I considered digging out the CFL's and hooking them all up (I did a full CFL grow about a year ago with 18+ lights... it was fun), but I'm just too lazy for that. I work a full time job during the week and have two grandkids under 5 at the house every weekend so I took the lame way out and let 'em veg under the HPS. Not ideal, but it is what it is for now...

 

[Belle of Buds]

Sounds good to me I just made a EnF with the same tub, I'm usin 27- 2liter bottles with the tops cut off as pots with hydroton or the gold label 80/20 .I just made a bubble cloner too so I got 20 cuts in that as a trial run. I just found out ill b travelin to jersey for work for prolly 6 weeks so I gotta while to wait til I can fil er up! I'm orderin a 600, upgradig to 6" fan n filter and gettin some beans when I get back.

Ill be tuned in here for sure, I love diy grows! Hope u get more females then males!
Keep it green

Hey cool! I look forward to seeing how your grow goes. I made a bubble cloner too, but I'm still tweaking my design. I wasn't happy with it after I got it together.

 

[NightOwlBono]

Keep tinkering,that's the only way to get it perfect......and even then,at the end of every grow(at least me)I always know there was things I could have done better but diddent think of it in time,or I was just too lazy.

that sucks about dropping your MH,they should be alright with the HPS for tho.
if you can afford the extra electricity,why not add a couple of your cfl or t8/t5's you got lying around,can't hurt

 

[TalonToker]

Hello Belle. First I want to say I am sorry about your mishap involving your eye, and am glad it is improving. Hope that trend continues. Eye problems can be soooo painful.

I'm a soil grower, but I would love to follow your grow. I don't know jack about ebb n flow, so I'm bound to learn much from you. Love your do-it-yourself attitude, too!

I have an hps, but no metal halide, and my girls veg just fine under it. They just grow slightly slower, that's all. They'll be fine.

I'm excited to see how this grow goes for you.

 

[Belle of Buds]

Hello Belle. First I want to say I am sorry about your mishap involving your eye, and am glad it is improving. Hope that trend continues. Eye problems can be soooo painful.

Thanks. They gave me an injection right in the eyeball!
Actually, that is a lot worse to say than to experience. As a matter of fact, it really didn't hurt at all by the time they finished drowning my eye in numbing potion. But it's almost fun to tell folks, specially boss-type characters who have to pretend to show sympathy for your plight when you call out..., because watching them flinch at the thought is just... cool... But I'm twisted like that. LOL

I'm a soil grower, but I would love to follow your grow. I don't know jack about ebb n flow, so I'm bound to learn much from you. Love your do-it-yourself attitude, too!

Welcome to the show! This is my first Ebb and Flow grow as well. I just wrapped up a year long perpetual grow, using a modified soil. But then I got it in my head that EnF was what I wanted to do, so that pretty much sealed the deal... LOL...

There are some superb experienced EnF growers on this site (as well as coco, soil, DWC, etc. LOL) so I started reading Flowamaster and Hellraizer30's threads and that's why I titled mine "I'm Learning".

OH, and my DIY attitude extends beyond my grow. I tend to reengineer pipes as well. I love to buy those cheezy little $5 metal and plastic two-hitters and incorporate plastic tubing and/or PVC bits. Here's one of my latest creations... a $6 bullet pipe and a 28cent PVC elbow and a little teflon tape.

I have an hps, but no metal halide, and my girls veg just fine under it. They just grow slightly slower, that's all. They'll be fine.

I'm excited to see how this grow goes for you.

Yeah, my babies did fine. I've vegged under a 150W HPS for nearly a year during my perpetual grow, but I did have a few CFLs in there for color. See the next post for an update.

 

[Belle of Buds]

Okay, everybody, time for an update. Lights are off now and will stay off till 10:00am Sunday morning, at which time my girls will start 12/12. The pics don't show it but I've added a layer of chunky perlite over the hydroton to help keep the roots covered and supplied with water and nutrients. The flood is set for 3 times a day for 15 minutes at a time with no flood during lights out.

Timing Schedule
10:00 am - Lights on and first flood
4:00 pm - Second flood
10:00 pm - Third and final flood then lights out

These pics were taken just after the flood cycle hit full and the lights went out.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

Lookin good mate... very good. A few observations / pointers from my own experience. Unless you are flipping very soon, thats too many plants for your table. You will have a proper jungle and a bitch to manage. If possible, make a lid for the table and cut some holes for your pots. the hydroton around your pots will grind and damage your roots when you flood. Better to have a lid and no hydroton, my root mass trebled when I put a lid on. The only other thing, but it's personal preference I think, I feed every 1.5 hrs for 15 mins and they love it. Get your PH nailed down, don't be lazy and think, "arrh I will do it tomorrow". I did on my first F&D grow and it was half what i get now.

 

[TalonToker]

Thanks. They gave me an injection right in the eyeball!
Actually, that is a lot worse to say than to experience. As a matter of fact, it really didn't hurt at all by the time they finished drowning my eye in numbing potion. But it's almost fun to tell folks, specially boss-type characters who have to pretend to show sympathy for your plight when you call out..., because watching them flinch at the thought is just... cool... But I'm twisted like that. LOL

hahahahaha Yes Belle, that is indeed a little twisted to enjoy that, but I do know what you mean. I agree, it can be fun to watch people's reactions to something that sounds so painful. I'm just glad you were properly numbed and that it wasn't so bad. I admit, when I read it i had to shut my eyes for a moment and put my hands up to them. lol I thought you might enjoy hearing that.

Welcome to the show! This is my first Ebb and Flow grow as well. I just wrapped up a year long perpetual grow, using a modified soil. But then I got it in my head that EnF was what I wanted to do, so that pretty much sealed the deal... LOL...

There are some superb experienced EnF growers on this site (as well as coco, soil, DWC, etc. LOL) so I started reading Flowamaster and Hellraizer30's threads and that's why I titled mine "I'm Learning".

In time I will definitely switch to some type of hydro growing, but as of yet I have not decided on which specific method. I still have much to learn as I have only been growing for a little less than 6 years. I'll check out the threads of those you mentioned, thanks for pointing me at them.

OH, and my DIY attitude extends beyond my grow. I tend to reengineer pipes as well. I love to buy those cheezy little $5 metal and plastic two-hitters and incorporate plastic tubing and/or PVC bits. Here's one of my latest creations... a $6 bullet pipe and a 28cent PVC elbow and a little teflon tape.

View attachment 2727329

Love that little pipe you made. A friend of mine made one exactly like it long ago. This must have been 30 years back, but I still remember how well that little pipe worked.


I loved your update, looks like they are doing very well. I really like that one plant that is topped. Can't wait to see what they all look like come early September. Keep up the great work, I'll be watching.


@MrMeanGreen---I believe Belle has already flipped the lights......

Okay, everybody, time for an update. Lights are off now and will stay off till 10:00am Sunday morning, at which time my girls will start 12/12.

 

[Belle of Buds]

Lookin good mate... very good. A few observations / pointers from my own experience. Unless you are flipping very soon, thats too many plants for your table. You will have a proper jungle and a bitch to manage. If possible, make a lid for the table and cut some holes for your pots. the hydroton around your pots will grind and damage your roots when you flood. Better to have a lid and no hydroton, my root mass trebled when I put a lid on. The only other thing, but it's personal preference I think, I feed every 1.5 hrs for 15 mins and they love it. Get your PH nailed down, don't be lazy and think, "arrh I will do it tomorrow". I did on my first F&D grow and it was half what i get now.

Thanks for the input. To respond, I did flip, starting today AND the nine seedlings in there are a pack of regulars so I know that there will be some males to be weeded out soon. As for the rest, I've added a layer of perlite which keeps the hydroton stable, no more floating around. I have my pH pretty stabilized now within acceptable limits and I check it at least once a day, sometimes more often because I'm a little bit of a micromanager.

I like the thought of a lid though, and will consider that for the next run. For now, I'm going to leave well enough alone. The roots have started spreading enough that I don't wanna mess with moving anybody around unnecessarily. Do you have pics?

 

[Belle of Buds]

OMG I cannot believe what has happened! I read where someone here on the board mentioned turning the lights out for 24 hours prior to switching. Sounded good and their grow looked awesome, so I tried it... WOW! I've not done that before and I was about half afraid of what I would find when I opened the tent, but I proceeded in faith until 10:00 am this morning when the lights came on for the first time since Friday night at 10:00 pm. The sight that met my eyes...

Each and every plant was at least 2" taller, broader, and fuller than when I had closed her down on Friday. I took some pics, but the lights are on so they are very yellow. But you can still see the amazing growth spurt. Also, I added a layer of chunky perlite up to the flood level and that seems to have stabilized the whole table considerably. I don't have any more splash, which was damaging some of the lowest leaves near the input valve, and nothing seems to move around much any more so the roots should be more comfy and stable.

 

[Belle of Buds]

For the next grow, I'm thinking about going pure perlite. Around here, the smallest bag you can buy is 4 cubit feet. Are you aware how much perlite that is? The bag is 4 feet tall!!! What I have used thus far hardly appears to be missing from the bag. Apparently, though, from what I've been reading, chunky perlite is a much better hydro medium that hydroton because of the irregular shape and the little air pockets that hold water and nutrients. Any thoughts on that, anybody?

 

[TalonToker]

Those plants are looking great!! There are some people who like to give as much as 36 hours of dark before the flip. I guess you just have to find what works for you, and you seem to be on to something with 24 hours of dark. I have tried both 24 and 36 hours and in my opinion 24 hours is better because with any more dark time most of the growth you will see from it becomes nothing but stretching. I'm glad that worked well for you. Now, the exciting part begins (flowering).

I have not seen anyone try to grow in only perlite, but I have seen a grow in a 50/50 mix of perlite and vermaculite. As I recall, there were many problems with ph fluctuating, but that might have been the growers inexperience as he was just experimenting and had no one with experience on that medium to help guide him. I do remember that when he was able to keep his ph at the right levels the plants were growing super fast.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

For the next grow, I'm thinking about going pure perlite. Around here, the smallest bag you can buy is 4 cubit feet. Are you aware how much perlite that is? The bag is 4 feet tall!!! What I have used thus far hardly appears to be missing from the bag. Apparently, though, from what I've been reading, chunky perlite is a much better hydro medium that hydroton because of the irregular shape and the little air pockets that hold water and nutrients. Any thoughts on that, anybody?

There is a natural progression with growing. My ultimate goal and most probably share, is to have totally nil medium. Nothing to wash, nothing to try to get rid of every grow, nothing to buy in aand ultimatley nothing to raise suspicion. I think you will still have root damage with you hydroton and perlite, your roots grow tiny little hairs (cilla i think) and because a % of hydroton floats there will always be movement. But like you said, if they are bedded down, leave em alone.



These are my root from a 3 tank (9 plant scrog). The brown tinge is hydroton dust, no slime at all.



This is how my 9 plant SOG looks. You can see how busy it is with 9, these are going into a vertical grow I am gonna try, building as we speak, just about done. Great fun trying to keep it hydro and not soil. Got to give it a go just to see if all the hype is true.

 

[Belle of Buds]

There is a natural progression with growing. My ultimate goal and most probably share, is to have totally nil medium. Nothing to wash, nothing to try to get rid of every grow, nothing to buy in aand ultimatley nothing to raise suspicion. I think you will still have root damage with you hydroton and perlite, your roots grow tiny little hairs (cilla i think) and because a % of hydroton floats there will always be movement. But like you said, if they are bedded down, leave em alone.

View attachment 2729284

These are my root from a 3 tank (9 plant scrog). The brown tinge is hydroton dust, no slime at all.

View attachment 2729286

This is how my 9 plant SOG looks. You can see how busy it is with 9, these are going into a vertical grow I am gonna try, building as we speak, just about done. Great fun trying to keep it hydro and not soil. Got to give it a go just to see if all the hype is true.

View attachment 2729287

Wow thanks for sharing that! Your roots look awesome, all wispy and fine. I admit that I love root porn almost as much as bud porn. LOL

I like your vertical grow set up too... what exactly are you going to do in the planters? I know you are trying to go hydro with no medium so how are you setting this up? Very interesting and if you start a thread on this grow, please let me know! I'd love to follow it.

I have been growing for 2 years and I am still looking for my "perfect experience". I think I might be getting close with the EnF. I tried DWC and it was a fruitful venture, but at the time, it was just too much work and I had a very hard time keeping my buckets cool enough. My big res for the EnF though seems to stay much cooler.

I also did soil for a long time. Soil is fine, but my water is so crappy that I had to keep gallon jugs of treated water sitting around for watering day and it was murder schlepping all that around. My water is still crappy, but I can treat and prep 12 gallons at a time in one big res and it is SO much simpler for me.