Trying to create an AUTO, HSO Blue Dream x BCG Spyder

[SxIstew]

OK so I started a thread about this but may have just not asked what I wanted to correctly. OK so here it goes...... I have a cut of HSO Blue Dream from my last grow. Growing her out to be the mother of many. My latest order from the tude contains. Black Creek Gardens Spyder auto reg. x12. Now I know for my first cross it will be a Blue Dream clone with a male Spyder. after that I know nothing. I can do 1 of 3 things. 1.) Grow the progeny, pick the best male, cross it with another BD clone(since the genetics should be exact), 2.) Grow the progeny, Pick the best male, and cross it with a female Spyder, or 3.) grow the progeny, pick the best FEMALE, and pollenate with the original male spyder pollen. Now keep in mind I want an AUTO in the end. I know it will require a lot more than that second cross i'm trying to figure out. I can only assume to reuse the male pollen from parent A throughout the backcrossing process to retain the auto trait. I could care less about the reg to fem ratio. HSO is a fem and BCG is reg. so I know if I continue to use the Spyder, I will lose most chances of retaining the female trait. that will not be an issue for me. help me create my own personal MILF weed.

 

[Hitch]

Wait...I'm a little confused.

Firstly, If you're trying to create an Autoflowering Female plant, you will never get that with those strains. Autoflowering plants contain ruderalis genetics, which is what cause the plant to flower on a time schedule as opposed to the standard photosensitive cannabis varieties. Neither of the strains you have contain ruderalis, so autoflowing is out of the question.

Secondly, even just plain feminized seed is not possible by crossing your regular seed with a fem. There are a couple of ways to obtain feminized seed, but they require JUST A FEMALE. Google "colloidal silver" and you'll see the main way.

All you can hope for in your case is straight regular seed. And, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, many prefer regular seed to feminized for various reasons.

*edit
By the way, genetics are nothing simple. What you suggest in your breeding possibilities are all fine, but NONE will increase stability as I understand it. In fact, the closest thing to the 50/50 split you want will be the original seeds you create from the original mommy and daddy. Unfortunately, both of your selections are already hybrids I think, so you may get all types of phenos since there are numerous genetics in there.

**edit again
I suggest making your seeds and then enjoy the hunt for that one good mother plant to take clones from! I am attempting my first "pollen chucking" this fall and I'm looking forward to it. I realize I'm not breeding anything original, but that doesn't make it any less fun. And cheap lol.

 

[hyroot]

I do know autos are made by crossing any sativa or indicate or hybrid with a ruderalis ( Mexican dirt weed). Those do not need a photo period to flower and sprout.

 

[SxIstew]

Wait...I'm a little confused.

Firstly, If you're trying to create an Autoflowering Female plant, you will never get that with those strains. Autoflowering plants contain ruderalis genetics, which is what cause the plant to flower on a time schedule as opposed to the standard photosensitive cannabis varieties. Neither of the strains you have contain ruderalis, so autoflowing is out of the question.

Secondly, even just plain feminized seed is not possible by crossing your regular seed with a fem. There are a couple of ways to obtain feminized seed, but they require JUST A FEMALE. Google "colloidal silver" and you'll see the main way.

All you can hope for in your case is straight regular seed. And, to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, many prefer regular seed to feminized for various reasons.

*edit
By the way, genetics are nothing simple. What you suggest in your breeding possibilities are all fine, but NONE will increase stability as I understand it. In fact, the closest thing to the 50/50 split you want will be the original seeds you create from the original mommy and daddy. Unfortunately, both of your selections are already hybrids I think, so you may get all types of phenos since there are numerous genetics in there.

**edit again
I suggest making your seeds and then enjoy the hunt for that one good mother plant to take clones from! I am attempting my first "pollen chucking" this fall and I'm looking forward to it. I realize I'm not breeding anything original, but that doesn't make it any less fun. And cheap lol.

actually Black Creek Gardens Spyder is an AUTO. it is just not feminized.

 

[SxIstew]

I have 10 seeds coming of the Spyder(sputnik 2.0 x lowryder) hence the name SPyder. get it now? ok can anyone answer me and read everything correctly or look up the strains correctly. i'm getting nothing but people telling me I cant do it wich is kinda pissing me off because I know it's possible. I just want to know how. I plan on taking a lot of time with this creation. I know it's not a simple thing to accomplish. so stop shooting me down and give me a reasonable answer.

 

[Hitch]

I have 10 seeds coming of the Spyder(sputnik 2.0 x lowryder) hence the name SPyder. get it now? ok can anyone answer me and read everything correctly or look up the strains correctly. i'm getting nothing but people telling me I cant do it wich is kinda pissing me off because I know it's possible. I just want to know how. I plan on taking a lot of time with this creation. I know it's not a simple thing to accomplish. so stop shooting me down and give me a reasonable answer.

You know what, I spent a lot of time on my answer. In fact, I spent more time on my answer than you did on your question. Perhaps giving all available information may help in the answers you receive.

Secondly, just because you do not like an answer, does not make it any less "reasonable".

I have never heard of an autoflowering regular, but so be it, you apparently have one.

I apologize for trying to help, perhaps some geneticist will lend you their time and considerable education just so you can make a few seeds.

Good luck.

ps...why the heck would you expect anyone to research what you could have easily posted?

 

[Galvatron]

they dont sell alot of auto regulars cus they dont want end users to make their own. its possible just takes time to grow out a few generations of plants to get to where you want it. FYI to the original poster, the black creek gardens breeder took 9 generations to stabilize his Spyder strain. thats how much work you have cut out for you want to do it right, however you can get the auto trait pretty much locked in by the 3-4th generations the rest of the generations after that are selecting for traits you want in the plant. heres everything he did to make the spyder:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112296

very informative thread for insights into the mind of a breeder. this guy really put in some time to make this strain and not just pollen chuck and sell the f1's.

here is a relevant quote from another thread he made:

"A sativa pheno Lowryder male was crossed with a very potent white pheno Sputnik 2.0 female, from these came a very resinous purple sativa pheno sputnik 2.0 x Lowryder f1 female that was then crossed with a sativa pheno Sputnik 2.0 x Lowryder f1 male. In the f2's there were 3 AF's out of about 40 plants, 1 sativa pheno male and 2 sativa pheno females (1 was purple the other white). Both were pollinated but the purple was more impressive so that is what was worked with. In the f3's there were 12 AF's out of about 40 plants, 9 females and 3 males. The nicest male which was a purple pheno pollinated the 9 females which were also all purple phenos. Approximately 100 seeds from the f4's were grown out, chosen from the 2 nicest females. 100% of the f4 plants auto-flowered within 21 days from seed (the pics are f4's). A sativa pheno male (also purple) pollinated about 20 females. Currently the f5's taken from the best females are being worked with. "

what you are trying to do is harder since you will have spyder genetics (sputnik a poly hydbrid) x low ryder (a poly hybrid) and then the blue dream which itself is a poly hybrid. you will be working with 6 or more genetic lines and trying to get just the blue dream leaning type plant as a auto will take a lot of time and growing.

 

[SxIstew]

they dont sell alot of auto regulars cus they dont want end users to make their own. its possible just takes time to grow out a few generations of plants to get to where you want it. FYI to the original poster, the black creek gardens breeder took 9 generations to stabilize his Spyder strain. thats how much work you have cut out for you want to do it right, however you can get the auto trait pretty much locked in by the 3-4th generations the rest of the generations after that are selecting for traits you want in the plant. heres everything he did to make the spyder:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112296

very informative thread for insights into the mind of a breeder. this guy really put in some time to make this strain and not just pollen chuck and sell the f1's.

here is a relevant quote from another thread he made:

"A sativa pheno Lowryder male was crossed with a very potent white pheno Sputnik 2.0 female, from these came a very resinous purple sativa pheno sputnik 2.0 x Lowryder f1 female that was then crossed with a sativa pheno Sputnik 2.0 x Lowryder f1 male. In the f2's there were 3 AF's out of about 40 plants, 1 sativa pheno male and 2 sativa pheno females (1 was purple the other white). Both were pollinated but the purple was more impressive so that is what was worked with. In the f3's there were 12 AF's out of about 40 plants, 9 females and 3 males. The nicest male which was a purple pheno pollinated the 9 females which were also all purple phenos. Approximately 100 seeds from the f4's were grown out, chosen from the 2 nicest females. 100% of the f4 plants auto-flowered within 21 days from seed (the pics are f4's). A sativa pheno male (also purple) pollinated about 20 females. Currently the f5's taken from the best females are being worked with. "

what you are trying to do is harder since you will have spyder genetics (sputnik a poly hydbrid) x low ryder (a poly hybrid) and then the blue dream which itself is a poly hybrid. you will be working with 6 or more genetic lines and trying to get just the blue dream leaning type plant as a auto will take a lot of time and growing.

Exactly what I needed thank you. I do understand that this isn't going to be done in a month or a year. it's going to take time to create this and perfect this. I just wanted to make sure I was going to be going about it the correct way. I didn't want to just cross the 2 and perfect that in itself. I wanted to do that while making it turn out auto in the process. that thread should be the answer as to crossing these hybrids into auto. and I can possibly create fem seeds in the end through Rodelization..... If everything works out that is.

 

[Galvatron]

keep in mind the numbers of plants you will need to grow to make this work. black creek gardens used only party cups to grow his f1-f6's to maximize space and speed for the selection process. you re not going to get what you want by growing out 5-10 plants, he only got 3 true autos from his f2's out of 40 plants.

 

[SxIstew]

he also only used a 400w mh setup. which I can accomplish. and have the room for what he did according to his pictures. that thread really got me wanting to do this. and even though he doesn't EXACTLY explain himself in doing this(to insure secrecy i'm thinking since it's so special to him) I'll start by popping 4 of the 10 i'm getting. grow the females out(if any) with the trainwreck I got going and isolate the best male for breeding. collect and dry out the pollen. and then remove a BD clone to pollenate. and place her back a few days later once she's been sprayed down to save the rest of the crop from seeds. once everything I got going is done, this is really going to kick off.... I will pop ALL viable seeds from that BD. and I think I would then take the best females(with identical traits i'm looking for even if no autoflower is present) and pollenate them with my Spyder pollen again. right? and continue until it's what i'm looking for, and then brother and sister plants for the end? to lock in the traits. If I have gotten anything wrong please let me know. i'd hate to spend over a year on this to for it come out a bust. EDIT: reading his previous thread now and I see how he is going about it. so I retract my previous statement of him not explaining himself. and I am wrong about what I should be doing. again THANK YOU for showing me this thread.

 

[SxIstew]

With the Blue Dream clones having an exact geno to each other, would I be able to use more than one for breeding with the same results on all? the more seeds I can make for my F1 the better.

 

[SxIstew]

OK so. if I continue to pull the weak males with non purple traits and leave the rest in for breeding EVERY generation.....When do I cross back to the parent to lock in the trait? I realize what I said earlier was backwards.

 

[SxIstew]

because he never did. not that he said anyway. it was F1 fem with F1 male to create his F2, 3 Auto 1 male 2 female and scrap the rest. then remove photos the same for the next gen, and his F4 were 100%. he just continues with male female from seed, never referring back to either parent for a trait lock. saves me time so I wouldn't need to keep anything else around with worries of crossing something I don't want to. or just seeding my whole crop with one error. if this works out I have more plans for the future with some Cocoa Puffs.....

 

[Galvatron]

What traits specifically are you trying to lock in? What are your goals for this project? For something like this you'll need clear set goals, I've tried breeding by winging it as it goes but that doesn't work. You need clear cut goals and a notepad with detailed notes.

 

[SxIstew]

well the smell and yield of the BD with more purple and autoflowering traits. that's what i'm looking for. The Blue dream I grew from seed and only had one cut survive, yielded about 2 oz and smelled like blueberry muffins. now I know that is obviously not going to be what my final product is but this is what i'm looking for. the Spyder is a VERY purple auto. I love that. and it's as resinous if not more than the HSO blue dream.

 

[SxIstew]

2 oz doesn't seem like much but she was abused. 10 gallon pot with multiple "droughts" due to me packing up my place for a move, removed from a trellis net and never returned. she was with 3 others(HSO Sour Desiel #2, G13 Labs Royal Kush and Ripper Seeds GrapeGum) with a total yield of 7.5 oz in a square meter. Which could have doubled if I didn't screw everything up. I got in too deep and then BAM we're moving again.

 

[Galvatron]

haha that was the same situation i was in last year, two moves in one year, fucked everything up. you might want to grow those spyders out and see what they are capable of before thinking you need to make your own cross. it might not have the blueberry taste youre looking for but the yield might be there and thatll save you alot of time if you like what the strain is capable of. just save some pollen while youre growing those out and if the final product isnt to your liking then start with your breeding project. it seriously is worth it finding something already made that suits what you want than to try to make it. if youre doing this just for fun then by all means start making seeds asap but there are alot of blueberry autos already out there that might be better suited as a starting point than the spyder.

btw my spyder x think different project already got killed, customs confiscated my beans. so im stuck with photo breeding right now. every time i try to get a auto project going something happens. good luck with yours.

 

[SxIstew]

I already know i'll like the spyder as is. this is mainly for educational purposes. I learned how to grow, have been complimented by growers years more advanced than myself. now I want to work on breeding. I suppose that an autoxphoto cross is not my best choice for a first attempt. I have other choices available, I just chose the best 2 of many. I could do something with my Hazeman Seeds Cocoa Puffs first. but without knowing as much about it as the spyder or blue dream i'd have to complete a full cycle prior to knowing what I want to change or advance in it. And i'm not sure what I would even cross it with. I have too much to start with to try to decide what I want. I'm waiting on an order now as well. currently I have HSO Blue Dream clone, Greenhouse seeds Trainwreck seedling, GHS White Widow(still hasn't broken soil), GHS The Church(same), GHS A.M.S.(same). in the mail is Hazeman Cocoa Puffs(reg), BCG Spyder auto(reg), Dinafem Blue Thai, Dinafem Deep Cheese, Delicious Seeds Cotton Candy(fem), Hazeman White 88 G13/Hashplant(reg). so as you can see the list is too long to do anything. most of that I wouldn't even DARE screw with because of their already claimed perfection. I mean some of those are designed to be AMAZING plants already. I can only wait and see what happens.