A Third Rebuke to Bush on Guantánamo Bay

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
A Third Rebuke to Bush on Guantánamo Bay - US News and World Report

By Emma Schwartz
Posted June 12, 2008

The Supreme Court decision will mean a flood of new cases in federal court

Today's U.S. Supreme Court ruling allowing detainees at Guantánamo Bay to challenge their imprisonment in federal court was a clear rebuke to the Bush administration—and the third against its approach toward Guantánamo detainees. But what implications the case has for the future of the island prison and the pending trials against some of the detainees are hardly clear.

In a 5-to-4 majority, the Supreme Court held that given the absence of a formal revocation of habeas protections, the detainees had a right to those full protections guaranteed by the Constitution. "The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the majority.

By extending habeas protections to noncitizens held under U.S. control, the Supreme Court opened the door for courts to decide whether their detention was ultimately constitutional.

In the short term, the decision will mean a flood of new cases in the federal courts. But the ruling could also have implications for the pending military commission trials, including trials for those charged with aiding the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. In opening up the avenues for Guantánamo detainees to challenge their imprisonment, the ruling allows even those charged with crimes in another venue to raise the broader constitutional challenges they have made about their detention, detainee lawyers say.

The opinion was met with a vociferous dissent in which Chief Justice John Roberts wrote that "this decision is not really about the detainees at all, but about control of federal policy regarding enemy combatants."

The Supreme Court first ruled in 2004 that some constitutional protections apply to Guantánamo Bay detainees, even though the United States is not the ultimate sovereign of the territory. By 2006, Congress had passed the Military Commissions Act, which barred detainees from filing habeas petitions for their release. In effect, detainees could question not their imprisonment but only the government's determination of their status as an "enemy combatant." And they could appeal only to a single forum—the conservative U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

In today's ruling, the Supreme Court held that this narrow review did not meet the constitutional standard required by habeas. In particular, the court noted that this process unfairly prevented detainees from introducing new evidence prohibited in the original proceedings.

Wrote Kennedy: "Even when all the parties involved in this process act with diligence and in good faith, there is considerable risk of error in the tribunal's findings of fact. . . . And given that the consequence of error may be detention of persons for the duration of hostilities that may last a generation or more, this is a risk too significant to ignore."

The cases, the majority acknowledged, lacked any "precise historical parallel," but the gravity of the legal issues and "the fact that these detainees have been denied meaningful access to a judicial forum for a period of years render these cases exceptional," Kennedy wrote.

The ruling, however, did not make any broad statements about the constitutionality of the government's detention programs elsewhere. And it cautioned the federal courts to protect national security concerns in devising habeas procedures.

But before any decisions are made, there are myriad legal questions for the district court judges to sort out. First and foremost, judges would need to figure out the procedures and scope of the habeas proceedings. This is something that Roberts warned could actually prolong the process further. Figuring out how to protect classified information could also lead to litigation. Says Robert Chesney, a national security law professor at Wake Forest University, "There are a million unanswered questions here."
 

mockingbird131313

Well-Known Member
This mess will get worse not better. My read is that the decision opened some doors for the detainees, yet did not define any boundaries. The 5-4 split, among the justices, surely means this will be revisited in a year or too. And suppose the tribunal decides a couple of these guys should be executed. Then they have an automatic appeal to the Supreme Court?
 

joepro

Well-Known Member
And suppose the tribunal decides a couple of these guys should be executed. Then they have an automatic appeal to the Supreme Court?
as of today, yes...american laws apply.
Now they get to flood the court system,lawyer up and drag it out,all on our dime.
..but it's fair regardless of the money.
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
The title of this thread is misleading and implies an ulterior motive Dank. If you've read your very post you'd see that it's not all about Bush...
By 2006, Congress had passed the Military Commissions Act, which barred detainees from filing habeas petitions for their release. In effect, detainees could question not their imprisonment but only the government's determination of their status as an "enemy combatant." And they could appeal only to a single forum—the conservative U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.


Please note that it was CONGRESS and not just our Fuhrer, Bush. Perhaps we can cast a scrutinizing eye upon our elected officials as well, yes? The POTUS just signs shit that Congress hands him. And if you think I'm defending Bush, you'd be wrong. I just think that your hatred is misdirected. Look to the representatives that you elected to represent you in Congress as well. Have you checked their voting records? Yes Bush signed the Act, but Congress passed it and submitted it to him. If Congress had voted against it...It never would have made it to his desk. They are all complicit.
 
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Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Look Dave you can't be selective about due process. if we are to give it to illegal immigrants we must give it to everyone. Once on US soil everyone is supposed to have this right. Last I checked Guantanamo Bay is a US installation (thus US Property) The Supreme Court made the right decision here.
 

Allan Watts

Well-Known Member
A vote for Bush/McSame is a vote for torture/genocide. Nuff said!!!!

These are very very dark days for America. How can we ever regain our position of trust in the world???
 

pete

Active Member
i dont know how any one can argue against the decision its in the constitution anyway how would you like it if someone grassed you up for something you never did and they stuck you in jail for a few years without trial and no prospect of one, dont sound so good now does it as for bush sayin cos its not us soil so it dont count is bullshit,its an american base run by americans overseen by the us governmentso in my eyes it is american soil and should come under american law. us bases in england and germany are classified as american soil so what is the difference if they re guilty prove it and i am not saying they are innocent but they deserve a trial even charles manson got a trial, bush aint bothered now he is trying to stuff the democrats before he leaves office. over here in england he is called Mr Veto
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Look Dave you can't be selective about due process. if we are to give it to illegal immigrants we must give it to everyone. Once on US soil everyone is supposed to have this right. Last I checked Guantanamo Bay is a US installation (thus US Property) The Supreme Court made the right decision here.
I don't believe I was arguing that Dank. My issue is with folks who fail to understand that political decisions of this caliber (the Iraq Resolution, The Military Commissions Act) are not the sole decision of the POTUS. I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Bush couldn't have pissed on the sand of Iraq without approval from Congress. Do you hold the same contempt toward Congress? Do you hold them accountable?
 

ViRedd

New Member
"Do you hold the same contempt toward Congress? Do you hold them accountable?"

Of course not. The Congress & Senate have a Democrat majority. Therefore, its all Bush's fault.

The trial lawyer lobby paid off in this case. Five selected, left-wing politicians in black robes voted pro, four nominated, constructionist judges voted nay.

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
The War was voted on with a Republican Majority, Most forget that there are a bunch of rookie congressmen in this session. You can't blame the Democrats for sending us to the war in Iraq.

Second Vi, Liberal Judges or not, the decision was constitutional. Antonin Scolia's Decent was sour grapes, as is your arguement.
My Argument stands.
If we extend the right to "Due Process" to people who are here illegally then we have to extend "Due Process" to those we hold captive on US property.
Last I remember Guantanamo Bay is a US Military Base, A US Military Base is Legally US Property.
 

ViRedd

New Member
The War was voted on with a Republican Majority, Most forget that there are a bunch of rookie congressmen in this session. You can't blame the Democrats for sending us to the war in Iraq.

Second Vi, Liberal Judges or not, the decision was constitutional. Antonin Scolia's Decent was sour grapes, as is your arguement.
My Argument stands.
If we extend the right to "Due Process" to people who are here illegally then we have to extend "Due Process" to those we hold captive on US property.
Last I remember Guantanamo Bay is a US Military Base, A US Military Base is Legally US Property.
Dank,

Would you expound on the above highlighted in red please. How was it "sour grapes."

Thanks ...

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Sour grapes sounds about right, like a little baby, wahhh, wahhh, I didn't get my way so I'll go on TV and have a rant, saying they were wrong, even though it was well within the parameters of the US constitution. The Right is not always right. Those human beings in Gitmo have been there, some as long as 5-6 years, without ever being afforded any access to their reasons for being there, (Habeas-Corpus denial). Think about that happening to you. It could under Bush's dictates.
 

mockingbird131313

Well-Known Member
Like Yogi says, "it aint over till it's over" and this aint over yet. Not with a bitter 5-4 split. Side issues will emerge. The next President will make two Supreme Court nominations. We will see much more on this topic. Perhaps on Dank's illegal aliens as well.
 

medicineman

New Member
Like Yogi says, "it aint over till it's over" and this aint over yet. Not with a bitter 5-4 split. Side issues will emerge. The next President will make two Supreme Court nominations. We will see much more on this topic. Perhaps on Dank's illegal aliens as well.
Damn I hope Obama gets in, otherwise we'll have similar judicial responses like the nazi's. He's guilty, off with his head, small or large, what, he wants a lawyer, what a bunch of crap, just send him to texas and off him.
 
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