A Third Rebuke to Bush on Guantánamo Bay

[Dankdude]

They aren't MY Illegal Aliens, You totally missed the context I was using.
What I said is if they are going to extend Habeas-Corpus and due process to those who are here illegally then they must extend the same to those that are held captive.
If your going to direct a personal attack at me mockingbird131313, at least get what I said correctly.

I hate to tell you this but your Hero Bush was dead wrong on this issue.

 

[medicineman]

Momas' gonna get me a mockingbird.

 

[mockingbird131313]

They aren't MY Illegal Aliens, You totally missed the context I was using.
What I said is if they are going to extend Habeas-Corpus and due process to those who are here illegally then they must extend the same to those that are held captive.
If your going to direct a personal attack at me mockingbird131313, at least get what I said correctly.

I hate to tell you this but your Hero Bush was dead wrong on this issue.

I did not attack you. Your point about illegals and detainees was excellent.
My point is this legal battle is not finished. More will play out in the courts. Finally, dubya is not my hero.

 

[VTXDave]

Finally, dubya is not my hero.

Ahh, but you see Mockingbird, If you are not with them, you're against them. If you do not embrace the "warm and fuzzy feeling of change" (wasn't that the slogan Clinton ran on? And he signed CALEA and NAFTA)that the Dems are promising (please disregard their impotence over the last 2 years while they controlled Congress), then you are clearly a Bush supporter. We will conveniently ignore that many Dems voted for the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, FISA, CALEA, Iraq Resolution...name it...and pin it all on Bush. Congress (especially the Dems) gets a free "Get Out of Jail Card" and we will conveniently ignore that the POTUS could not have executed any of his unconstitutional agendas without the approval of a majority from Congress.

"Two legs Bad! Four legs good!!" We will pin it all on Bush...Our Fuhrer...

 

[Dankdude]

You couldn't have it more wrong Dave, jesus Karl Rove sure fucked you guys up.

The reason I can off like that was because he said Dank's Illegal Aliens... I'm against Illegal immigration.
Now if you will look back in history, there was a republican majority (in both houses) when the Iraq war was voted in. It's the conservatives you should be attacking.
There was a republican majority when Clinton signed NAFTA & CALEA.
There was also a Republican Majority (in both houses) when Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, FISA, CALEA, Iraq Resolution were voted on... Absolute power, remember the salad days of the conservative power orgy?

You conveniently ignore a lot of facts when it come to all of that yourself.

Bush is your Führer, not mine.

 

[VTXDave]

You couldn't have it more wrong Dave, jesus Karl Rove sure fucked you guys up.

The reason I can off like that was because he said Dank's Illegal Aliens... I'm against Illegal immigration.
Now if you will look back in history, there was a republican majority (in both houses) when the Iraq war was voted in. It's the conservatives you should be attacking.
There was a republican majority when Clinton signed NAFTA & CALEA.
There was also a Republican Majority (in both houses) when Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, FISA, CALEA, Iraq Resolution were voted on... Absolute power, remember the salad days of the conservative power orgy?

You conveniently ignore a lot of facts when it come to all of that yourself.

Bush is your Führer, not mine.

See what I mean folks? I called it.

 

[VTXDave]

Do you even know about CALEA Dank? Do you even know about balance of power? CALEA was passed by a Republican majority and signed into law by a Democrat POTUS...Clinton. Do you like NAFTA? Again a Republican majority Congress signed into law by a Dem POTUS.

Bush is not my Fuhrer son, and neither is Obama and McCain.

 

[Dankdude]

No you didn't, I pointed out that there were republican Majorities when all if it was voted on and signed and you ignored it.... So you called it huh? hardly.

 

[VTXDave]

You couldn't have it more wrong Dave,
Now if you will look back in history, there was a republican majority (in both houses) when the Iraq war was voted in. It's the conservatives you should be attacking.

And what about the impeachment of Bush? The Dems control both House and Senate. The Reps fault again?

You really think I'm a conservative, I'm not a Republican.

 

[VTXDave]

No you didn't, I pointed out that there were republican Majorities when all if it was voted on and signed and you ignored it.... So you called it huh? hardly.

Zip up your fly Dank...your agenda is showing.

 

[Dankdude]

Yes dave I do know about balance of power, it takes a 61% majority vote to pass anything. And yes I do know about the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. Again Republican majority. And no I don't like NAFTA, I said 20 years ago when (Reagan introduced the Idea in the 1980's) that eventually it was going to siphon jobs out of the US, and it has. I knew we were fucked when Clinton signed it. I'm not giving the Dems a free pass, by the same token you shouldn't give the republicans one either.

 

[Dankdude]

Dave I also said in another thread that Impeaching Bush this late in the game would be pointless.

 

[VTXDave]

Yes dave I do know about balance of power, it takes a 61% majority vote to pass anything. And yes I do know about the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. Again Republican majority. And no I don't like NAFTA, I said 20 years ago when (Reagan introduced the Idea in the 1980's) that eventually it was going to siphon jobs out of the US, and it has. I knew we were fucked when Clinton signed it. I'm not giving the Dems a free pass, by the same token you shouldn't give the republicans one either.

What makes you think I'm giving the Reps a free pass? I hold all of Congress accountable, I make no distinction between Rep and Dem as those lines of ideology no longer exist. And no you don't know about CALEA. I work for a telco. I was visited by "The Men in Black". I was told to implement hardware and software to enable them to surveil citizens without our knowledge. CALEA strikes a very dark chord within me.

Do you remember what the vote was on the Patriot Act? 98 to 1. It wouldn't of mattered whocontrolled the Senate. 98 to 1.

 

[VTXDave]

Have to sign off now. We've been running on a generator for the past 9 hours due to a widespread power outage and I need to shut it off. Take care all.

 

[Dankdude]

You were the one calling an agenda, With this post I had none. I knew that the constitution was upheld with the recent Supreme Court ruling. your the one who flipped out in the thread. I said what I said to Mockingbird because how his original comment was written it souned like a snide comment. So when one person defends their position on an issue you say they have an agenda?

 

[pete]

i know i am an outsider being british but i think you are right if obama does not get in then i think america as world leaders will be a thing of the past now i am not knockin the people in the states in fact i really like em but the young republicans have got to see the light if they cant see that for the last 8 years the only people to profit are the arms dealers oil men and private contractors in iraq using your tax dollar to feather there own nest whilst doing little or nothing for the money they get. and in the states itself you have people like anne coulter commiting voter fraud and getting away with it(with the help of bushs former fbi boss) i just think you need change and that has gotta be obama

 

[henleyhaze]

you know dank I think you are right on this topic I did not think so before and I have posted otherwise on other threads about this topic before, but you put up a good argument. and Pete, thank you for your input and putting this into perspective for me. now the problem I see with giving these people due process is the time it will take to process these people and the cost. obviously to me I think the wrong thing to do would bring them into the us to await trial and so forth, this would really slow up the us court system which in my opinion is extremely poor. my question is how do we prove guilt or innocence? this will clearly be thrown around as cases of guilty by association. also shall we assemble a team to go outward and start these trials or do you think we should bring them on our soil?

 

[medicineman]

Since many of these detainees were sold to the us by bounty hunters with false claims, If the US can't prove the charges against them, they should be returned to theur countries and given 5 years worth of equivalent earned pay. A lot of these dudes were just rival factions in Afghanistan that got caught by their enemies and turned into the US soldiers for bounty. Since the US wanted to look like they were taking Al-Queda fighters off the streets, they paid the bounty and basically asked no pertinent questioins, as in, one Arab looks like another, just bag and tag him.

 

[VTXDave]

You were the one calling an agenda, With this post I had none. I knew that the constitution was upheld with the recent Supreme Court ruling. your the one who flipped out in the thread. I said what I said to Mockingbird because how his original comment was written it souned like a snide comment. So when one person defends their position on an issue you say they have an agenda?

I wouldn't call it "flipping out" Dank, I'm calling it like I see it. I happen to agree with the SCOTUS ruling. The Constitution clearly states that EVERYONE has the right to Habeas Corpus, not just US citizens. What I do see is, by your very title of this thread, is another attempt to place the responsibility on Bush' shoulders. There's plenty of blame to go around regarding the mess we're in. Bush could not have accomplished what he has without congressional support. When the Patriot Act was signed many say "Well it's because the Reps controlled Congress", yet when a bill that calls for the impeachment of Bush fails in Congress many of those same people now say "Well it's because the Reps blocked it." Couldn't a Dem minority have blocked passage of the Patriot Act or the Iraq Resolution? Again, these events that we so freely place on Bush could not have occured without the support from Congress by both Dems and Reps. I will even go so far as to say that, as for me, I inclined to almost hold Congress more accountable than Bush himself.

 

[Dankdude]

Then you see it with rose colored glasses.

Dave you state that Bush couldn't have pissed on Iraqi soil unless congress approved it. I reminded you that it was a republican controlled congress when it was all voted on. Now I will agree that congress should be held responsible.
But you most also realize that congress was lied to in the push to go to war with Iraq. Who lied to congress???? The Executive Branch.
A lot of those who were responsible for the vote to go to war are already out of office, they lost their seats in the last election.

Now I did Not name the title of the thread, it was named by the author of the Article, not me.

Yes the Reps do block a lot of bills going through congress as the Dems do not have enough votes to achieve a 61% majority, they have to get some co-operation from across the aisle. Most are not because of partizan politics.
The exact same thing the republicans tried to block with the "Nuclear Option" last session of congress, they are doing now, the Filibuster.