Coco or vermiculite?

damn

Active Member
First time grower, going with a DTW SOG CFL setup. I am wondering whether I should use coco or verm+perlite for my DTW setup? And what are the ratios that I should mix (or layer) whatever ingredients I choose at??? Like I said, this is my very first time so I am clueless except for what limited info I've gleaned from the forums here. My overall goal is to keep every aspect of my grow as SIMPLE as possible, and coco coir seems like more of a hassle to deal with than a simple verm+perlite mix (but wtf do I know -- nothing). Seems easier to recycle the verm+perlite, too.

Also, what volume should my final DTW containers be for a DTW SOG CFL grow? Since I am only using CFLs in a SOG, I figure I could get away with something like a bunch of 2L coke bottles to house my flowering plants roots. Thoughts?

Thanks!
 

Malevolence

New Member
I have only done one grow with each, but so far I prefer coco with a perlite res. I can go maybe an extra day without watering compared to perlite/vermiculite, but run a little extra cal/mag. Another thing with coco is the ph is locked in... when I 'unpacked' the coco (I call it unpacked), I unpacked it in what I believed to be 5.8 ph water... but my ph meter was wayyyy off calibration and now my ph is locked in at low 5s... but the plants are still looking good. I hope it doesn't impact the final weight. The point is, I water with 7.0 ph nutes more or less and the run-off ph doesn't change at all. Seems like you would really have to soak it to break the ph buffers. The ph wasn't so locked in with the perlite. I prefer the ph to be locked in at 5.8 in coco so I don't even have to ph my nutes.

I went from a year with DWC to perlite/vermiculite hempys to now coco hempys with vert lamps. This is what I have been observing so far... only 1 week into bloom; veg is the easy part.
 
First time grower, going with a DTW SOG CFL setup. I am wondering whether I should use coco or verm+perlite for my DTW setup? And what are the ratios that I should mix (or layer) whatever ingredients I choose at??? Like I said, this is my very first time so I am clueless except for what limited info I've gleaned from the forums here. My overall goal is to keep every aspect of my grow as SIMPLE as possible, and coco coir seems like more of a hassle to deal with than a simple verm+perlite mix (but wtf do I know -- nothing). Seems easier to recycle the verm+perlite, too.

Also, what volume should my final DTW containers be for a DTW SOG CFL grow? Since I am only using CFLs in a SOG, I figure I could get away with something like a bunch of 2L coke bottles to house my flowering plants roots. Thoughts?

Thanks!
I've basically been scouring the internet learning about Hempy grows as much as I possibly can...For the past 3 weeks. I'm no expert or wizard or anything like that. But my google research has pointed me to somebody that was one of the most well known successful Hempy growers out there.

Now, he didn't actually do a Hempy, because he was so L337pro he didn't need to drain. He knew exactly how much to water and at what times. Hempy none the less, just illy status. Your drain hole will allow you to mess with your nutrients, flush easily, and overwater all you like without worrying about scrappin your project.

He used a 65% Perlite to 35% Vermiculite mix. I know many will have their own opinions. But thus I digress, we are here to share experience and knowledge, and take from it what we do and make it our own knowledge to share. I will however share this thread linked to a different site. (Which I hope isn't against the rules, sorry if it is. lemme kno)

I'm referring to the user JRoseK. I reccommend, if you really wanna learn about Hempy. Your first start should be page one of this thread. And read every post from page 1-31. Then you will have some real questions to ask.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2016458

The whole point of this collective is to learn what questions you need to ask. You'll find that's all you'll be doing. Asking questions, that leads to an answer, that leads to 5 new questions.

Keep in mind, JRoseK is old school. I read some posts from him in like 2008 or 2006 or something. So he never messed with coco or any of the newer things that exist now. And I'm sure he avoided anything new purely out of tradition. Why change something that's already been perfected?

I purely have been only looking for his posts and information relating to his methods including DEFOLIATION! He was a strong believer in cutting off all fan leaves but only twice and all at once through out the entire grow.

Anyway. Hempy is awesome, you really can't go wrong, just make sure your pH below 6.0 and your PPM never exceed 1000 to 1200.

The whole point of hempy is easy, simple, cheap, not complicated whatsoever. It's like soil with a lot of run off. People try to complicate things. I've seen people hook up pump systems to their hempy grows. Yah, you basically completely eliminate all the work, but then you are just going back to regular hydro.

Check the Lucas formula as well. I personally don't use it, but people by the masses swear by it. Two nutes the whole way, no changing, except for starting soft and filling out at the end.

I follow JroseK methods to a T as much as I can. Can't say I have the same results, but they're the best results.

Don't over complicate it. That's when you'll fuck up.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I posted my 18k watt Hempy grow in the hydro section.

20 gallon trees and out substrate is 85% perlite and 15% coco with a dash of EWC
 

thecoolman

New Member
vermiculite is easier but has a higher cation exchange rate. auto drain to waste in a
very airy media is much faster than any hempy.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Umm, hempy is drain to waste bub.

And it case it got confusing for some vermiculite holds more water than perlite
 
vermiculite is easier but has a higher cation exchange rate. auto drain to waste in a
very airy media is much faster than any hempy.
Umm, hempy is drain to waste bub.

And it case it got confusing for some vermiculite holds more water than perlite
When he says "auto" I would assume he meant feed/watering on a cycle timer, which I would have to agree is much quicker growth than a standard Hempy watered every 1-3 days.
 
vermiculite is easier but has a higher cation exchange rate. auto drain to waste in a
very airy media is much faster than any hempy.
Any chance you could point me to a reference for the CEC of verm being higher than Coco? Not saying you are wrong, simply interested in the reading.

I have seen coco with a lower cec than peat, as well as seen it higher, all depending on the reference.
 

thecoolman

New Member
when I was doing research to find the best air and water filled capacities of dtw hydro medium
I decided to use perlite and test different grades I however wanted to increase its water filled capacity some what to reduce waterings while maintaining a highly steerable and inert low cation exchange ratio. There is not a lot out on coco cation
exchange rates from reliable sources university studies etc.. however i did eventually find a couple with much
looking and I believe it was about 70 for coco vs vermiculite at 100-150. also interesting perlite holds more air than hydroton not that i would use something so expensive. Anyways i go between straight perlite and 20 percent coco depending on if I feel like mixing.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
^ I have the same mix.

In terms of the difference between drip (with hydroton) and hempy with 80-90% perlite I have done them both and they both grow about the same rate really. Growth rates is more about strain and environmental conditions than it is a difference between the two.

I have grown in the following:( in order of fastest growth and yield). UC, DWC, ebb and flow, hempy, drip, coco, soil mix. After awhile it comes down to ease of use vs speed/yield. UC is the highest maintenance and when the go down, the go down hard. DWC is a close second. Drippers clog and IMO are wasteful of nutes. Hempy is about the best of both worlds really. Nothing to clog, good growth/yield and no root issues.
 

thecoolman

New Member
hydroton is not the best choice for drip it doesn't have good wicking properties like perlite and interestingly
holds both less air and water than perlite. if you ran a spray system spot spitters etc you would see its faster than a hempy
 
hydroton is not the best choice for drip it doesn't have good wicking properties like perlite and interestingly
holds both less air and water than perlite. if you ran a spray system spot spitters etc you would see its faster than a hempy
How do you adequately wet all of the media without any wicking properties? Running hydroton dtw seems like it would have a ridiculous amount of waste, and even if you could dial it in, changes in growth would have you messing with timers daily trying to keep optimum conditions, least waste.

Unless you dont care much about nute cost. If i was running Jacks Pro Hydro, i could see me not giving a rats ass, byt thats still tons of waste to dispose of. Short of a floor drain it would be a pain with any decent sized garden.
 
How do you adequately wet all of the media without any wicking properties? Running hydroton dtw seems like it would have a ridiculous amount of waste, and even if you could dial it in, changes in growth would have you messing with timers daily trying to keep optimum conditions, least waste.

Unless you dont care much about nute cost. If i was running Jacks Pro Hydro, i could see me not giving a rats ass, byt thats still tons of waste to dispose of. Short of a floor drain it would be a pain with any decent sized garden.
Just reading this again, and realized you said hydroton was NOT the best choice. Guess I missed that one. Lol.
 
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