New Coco dtw grower... Basic questions

[rickymac21]

Hi RIU. First of all, I want to thank everyone who has helped me in my other threads and answering my questions.

But down to business. I previously grew in dwc but for my new room I decided to try something new.. I will be using a 400w MH for veg with some t8's... For flower I will have a 1000w hps.. Flower room is 4'D x 5-6'W x 4.5'H... With this space I want to use 24 plants (6 rows of 4 plants a piece). Each row will also increase in height by 3" from the previous row, kind of like a stadium only the tiers are only two sides of the room, not all 4... I figured with my strains I can veg for 2 - 2 1/2 weeks then flip to 12/12 to keep height manageable. After clones are rooted they will be put into 1 gallon pots with coco (and vermiculite?).. After the 2 week veg they will be placed into 2-3 gallon pots for the duration of flower. I intend on using as DTW system for obvious reasons, watering those things daily would be a chore.

That said I have a few questions.
1. With DTW, what drippers should I buy?? have seen adjustable ones, fixed ones, and diy drippers and it confuses me as to how much water is really going through the drippers per watering. Especially with the DIY drippers.

2. How often and how long to water? I know this will vary from plant to plant and container size. But with a 2 gallon pot per plant under a 1000w I would imagine they will be thirsty. Plus I've read that more frequent waterings with less quantity water is better than watering less frequently with more water.... Along with this, If I am watering multiple times per day, do I really want that 15% runoff every single time the pump kicks on and waters? I feel like that's a waste.. I would think I would only want the last watering of the day to have runoff to flush the salts..

3. I have also read that you don't want to feed the plants with nutrients every watering... But when mixing the res, don't you mix up a weeks worth of nutrients as that's how most feeding schedules are used? Or is it fine to feed every watering as long as there is that 15% runoff?

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

1. There are several models out there, readily available. I found drippers ok for seedlings and clones, but for really good root growth, the medium needs to be watered evenly. Coco has decent wicking properties, but not all that great. I use these and it covers the whole surface of the pot. After you decide which ones, build the setup, fill it with tap water and see how long it takes the pump to empty it, then you have a total run time for your setup and go from there.

2. a. seedlings - I use nothing but distilled water till the third node, then ease into the nutes at 1/4 str.
b. young plants once a day, maybe twice if you ration smaller feedings.
c. last week of veg on into flower, depends on plant size and container size, I am in 3 gallon and water 2 times a day and on Wed. they get an additional feeding that is 3 times the run time for a rinse.

3. Coco is inert, only a medium, mix your nutes for the week if that is your method (I do) and water till you see a bit of runoff, if you do a once a week long feed, you should fare well against salt buildup.

Look forward to seeing the setup.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

 

[rickymac21]

1. There are several models out there, readily available. I found drippers ok for seedlings and clones, but for really good root growth, the medium needs to be watered evenly. Coco has decent wicking properties, but not all that great. I use these and it covers the whole surface of the pot. After you decide which ones, build the setup, fill it with tap water and see how long it takes the pump to empty it, then you have a total run time for your setup and go from there.
View attachment 2826825
2. a. seedlings - I use nothing but distilled water till the third node, then ease into the nutes at 1/4 str.
b. young plants once a day, maybe twice if you ration smaller feedings.
c. last week of veg on into flower, depends on plant size and container size, I am in 3 gallon and water 2 times a day and on Wed. they get an additional feeding that is 3 times the run time for a rinse.

3. Coco is inert, only a medium, mix your nutes for the week if that is your method (I do) and water till you see a bit of runoff, if you do a once a week long feed, you should fare well against salt buildup.

Look forward to seeing the setup.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

Thanks for the reply ! I see you said you water two times a day during flower. I'm curious as to how long you leave the pump on? Or a more accurate question, how much water is given to each plant to get your 15% runoff. Your pot sizes are right about what I will be using so I would imagine the plant size would be similar as well... Some where I read that a general rule of thumb is water 1/4 worth of the pot size. So with a 4 gallon pot I would set the pump/drippers to release 1 gallon (4 x 1/4 = 1) for each watering.. Say that gives me the desired 15% runoff. But if the pot stays wet for the rest of the day, would it be safe to say I should cut the watering time in half (so only a half gallon is given to each plant) and then later on in the day water it again with another 1/2 gallon...

I'm just so use to DWC where all you do is monitor the water level,.... I just want to make sure I keep the ladies as happy as possible. So a specific watering/feeding cycle for 2-3 gallon pots would be awesome. I could tweak it from there...

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

I have 2-250gph pumps going to 2-8 port octo-bubblers (removed regulating diaphram), each plant has 2 nozzles from each pump, so if I lose a pump, the Ladies still get fed. I run my pumps for 30 seconds and the long feed on Wed. is 1.5 min. I get about 10% or so runoff each time. My res is 18-19 gallons of nutes and that scraps about 3-4gals. just to get a usable level in the res. (pump pickup) and I go a full 7 days on that. That equates to a bit over 2.5 gallons a day average for 4 plants - 16 sprayers
Once you get the setup going and the pots filled, you can run down the accurate time it takes for your pots to get the proper water each feeding.

Peace

Asmallvoice

 

[rickymac21]

I have 2-250gph pumps going to 2-8 port octo-bubblers (removed regulating diaphram), each plant has 2 nozzles from each pump, so if I lose a pump, the Ladies still get fed. I run my pumps for 30 seconds and the long feed on Wed. is 1.5 min. I get about 10% or so runoff each time. My res is 18-19 gallons of nutes and that scraps about 3-4gals. just to get a usable level in the res. (pump pickup) and I go a full 7 days on that. That equates to a bit over 2.5 gallons a day average for 4 plants - 16 sprayers
Once you get the setup going and the pots filled, you can run down the accurate time it takes for your pots to get the proper water each feeding.

Peace

Asmallvoice

very informative, thanks ! By taking out the drip regulator it's basically a steady stream of water I assume? Hense the short 30 second watering time. Makes sense.
I feel so stupid for not realizing this before but I see that it's just simple math. You have 2 250 gph pumps. So 500 gph total. Divine that by 60 minutes and that gives 8.3 gallons a minute. Divide that by 2 and that's 4 gallons in 30 seconds. 4 gallons divided by 4 plants means each plant gets 1 gallon in 30 seconds. Wonderful. I seriously don't know how I overlooked this, I was trying to make it so complicated. Thanks again!

 

[rickymac21]

Well afte I do the math the numbers are kind of disturbing. Seems kind of high.
If I have 24 plants each in 2 gallon pots and they get watered/fed 2 times a day with a half a gallon a plant. This comes out to using 24 gallons a day. That doesn't seem right. Maybe 1/4 gallon a plant twice a day to cut it half to 12 gallons a day. That still seems sort of high doesn't it? I would have to mix up 84 gallons just to last one week. That is unless I re-used the runoff water, but that would defeat the purpose would it not? The whole point of getting the runoff is to flush out salts and if I re-use that water I'm essentially just adding even more salt build up and asking for problems no?
So with so 24 2gallon pots am I stuck with having that huge res ? Or am I overestimating how much water ill be using

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

That many plants is going to use a lot of water and a lot of nutes when things are in full swing. Just on my guess, you are going to need a 100 gallon res at a min to go a week.

That adds up to several hundred dollars in nutes over the length of the grow. My 4 plants will have eaten an easy $120 in nutes before all is harvested.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

 

[rickymac21]

Yea that's what I'm realizing. But I guess it's not mic worse than my dwc. In my RDWC I would fill the res up with 22 gallons and with 4 plants the res would need topped off at least twice a week. So those plants drank around a gallon a day. So dtw isn't much different. I just have way more ladies than I have had so it threw me off. Looks like its gonna be a costly grow, hopefully it pans out, I'm gettin anxious

 

[rickymac21]

I know a lot of you guys hate seeing these type of threads. But seriously I have read and read and read. But there's just so much different information on this dtw coco it's a lot to take in...

But Just trying to think of ways to cut down on nutrient costs seeing as I'll probably go through 75-80 gallons of water a week with the 24 girls in 2 gallon pots... I was thinking of maybe having two separate res's and mix different strengths of nutrient solutions in each.. So in one res I might have 40 gallons with a ppm of 1000 and the second one with a ppm of 500... I would set the higher 1000 ppm res to water first (about .25 gallons per pot) about 2 hours after the lights come on... Then 4 hours later I'll have the lower 500 ppm res to water... This would save on nutrients and essentially help reduce salt build up.. I suppose this will only work if my plants are happy with less nutes. But I've been reading plants in coco don't mind lower ppm anyways so it could work...

Has anyone done something similar to this? or would it even be worth trying?

 

[rickymac21]

Seriously though, 167 views and 1 person was kind enough to chime in .... Anyone else have an opinion on this ^^^ ... All help is appreciated

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

I slowly ramped my nutes from 1/4 strength after 3 nodes of growth and in the final week of veg, I was at 800ppm. I am 3 weeks into flower and I am running at 1000ppm and the plants are doing very well. I have done a bit of reading and the only adverse affect I can see on the nute level swinging would be in the final harvest. I don't think the plants would show a deficiency from it, just might not get all the growth a steady regimen would give.

You could break that 24 plants into 3 groups of 8 and start a wicked perpetual garden, and that would save on the nutes for sure, as you would have only 8 plants at a time getting flowering level nutes and the rest would be cruising on 1/2 str. veg level nutes as they come up through the ranks. Other than that, not too many ways to cut costs on 24 flowering plants.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

 

[rickymac21]

Yea I figured the ladies wouldn't appreciate it if I turned them into extreme dieters. Haha. Whatever though, I'll stop being cheap and just go with it. I'm sure ill be happier in the end. By the way, thanks for actually staying in on this thread and answering my questions. I'll be sure to let you know when I get a journal going

 

[ASMALLVOICE]

Yea I figured the ladies wouldn't appreciate it if I turned them into extreme dieters. Haha. Whatever though, I'll stop being cheap and just go with it. I'm sure ill be happier in the end. By the way, thanks for actually staying in on this thread and answering my questions. I'll be sure to let you know when I get a journal going

No Problem M8

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

 

[thecoolman]

Yes I do dtw and I can tell you now by far the best way is to use john deere pot spitters or
as i like better netafim spray stakes these use highly flexible 1/8 line vinyl or modified pvc netafim line is the best. spend 20 bucks on a inline 100 micron filter and preferably get a good floor mounted pump with some pressure you can get a high flow regulator or a ball valve for about 10 bucks to dial it down if you want.
these conserve water and provide by far the best coverage and are what is used for commercial nursery pot growing. i have found these guys greathttp://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Netafim-Spray-Stakes-Nursery-Irrigation-Pot-System-/220551633690?pt=LH_Default
this system is designed for exactly what you are doing and trust me when i say this its very easy to plumb it with pvc and then drill holes in the pvc one size smaller than your spray line and then just stick the spray line directly in to the pvc IT WONT LEAK and all pots will flow evenlyhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/50-2-Vinyl-Supply-Tubing-for-Spray-Stakes-Drip-MODs-/320027652451?pt=LH_DefaultD

These work great and will absolutely put to shame http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wayne-PC4-1-2-HP-Cast-Iron-Portable-Transfer-Utility-Pump-/271277860202?pt=LH_Danything anything sold at a hydro store

build a pvc manifold in your tray or around your plants I like to use pvc from at least the inside of the barell and then doen to the floor area and the a garden hose to pvc adapter the manifold at the plants
this prevents hose kinking where it comes out of the resevoir/barrel /garbage can
remember you dont need grommets for the line and do not use any type of barb on the 1/8 line either
this system will flow dead even to all plants and never clog it will provide excellent coverage and conserve water

 

[thecoolman]

if you want to save money use jacks hydroponic 2 part hydro google pewters fertilzer and check out there 2 part hydro nutes about 100 shipped makes about 4000 gallons of the best shit out

 

[rickymac21]

if you want to save money use jacks hydroponic 2 part hydro google pewters fertilzer and check out there 2 part hydro nutes about 100 shipped makes about 4000 gallons of the best shit out

Are these the two nutes I would need? If so your saying I wouldn't need anything else? I have looked at the Lucas formula using just GH maxibloom.. I was gonna add DYNA-GRO Pro-tekt, GH cal-mag....

But hell, at $35 for 25 lbs of each of those nutrients that blows GH out of the water... GH is $85 for 16 lbs of maxibloom.... Is this Jack Peters stuff really worth the money? I know everyone knows the saying "you get what you pay for". Does this really give great results? Yield, potency, general plant health ???

Jack’s Professional 5-12-26 Hydroponic

This formula was designed as a base foundation for hydroponic growing. It can be manipulated in such a manner as to provide virtually any combination of nutrient levels desired, providing the highest availability to plants, due primarily to Jack’s has proven ability to remain in true solution over long periods of time. Should be used in combination with the 15-0-0 Calcium Nitrate in a two-part system

Jack’s Professional 15-0-0 Calcium Nitrate

High quality and extremely soluble form of Calcium that is easy to take up by plant roots in a hydroponic environment. This product is used to supplement calcium (18%) and nitrate nitrogen with no micronutrients added. It can be used to raise media pH and to reduce ammonium, sodium and high micronutrient levels.

 

[rickymac21]

Buy together and save!

Save 10% when you purchase Jack's 5-12-26 Hydroponic and 15-0-0 Calcium Nitrate together.

And he even offers a deal when buying both together.. that's pretty generous. What about the bloom boosters on there? Are they worth adding to the mix?

 

[thecoolman]

The suff kicks ass on mxi bloom . What sucks about maxi is it doesnt fully disolve and there is a bunch of shit at the bottom
the peters is a very well balanced formula with out the bs
I recommend mixing 48 ounces of the hydro in 1 gallon of water and 32 ounces of calcium nitrate in the other gallon container (3 parts to 2 parts ratio)
you now have highly concentrated liquid nutrients that go along way and these are now ready to be used at a 50 50 ratio
example. 5 ounces of one 54 ounces of the other into your reservoir etc when running the peters
you can use less ppm?ec as its lower in P which gives qa higher Nitrogen and Potasium level at the same
ppm as other formulas more than 700 ppms on a .5 ec scale is not needed. Nothing else is needed

 

[thecoolman]

The only time =i use any booster is to speed up ambering of the trichs at the very end maybe
for a few days but something with lower potassium than phosperous as there already is plenty dyna grow mag pro works ok and is cheap and very concentated.
adding maybe 50- 100 ppm and then using the jacks to bring the ppm up to the normal level
botanical ripe works ok when used on its own for a few days except its diluted so you use alot and
it does not mix well with water. with all this being said you dont need a booster but I occasionally
use the magpro etxc for a finisher maybe for a few days. One thing you will notice with the peters is
better tasting and smoother weed because it doesnt have all the unneeded and excess phosphorous.

 

[rickymac21]

The suff kicks ass on mxi bloom . What sucks about maxi is it doesnt fully disolve and there is a bunch of shit at the bottom
the peters is a very well balanced formula with out the bs
I recommend mixing 48 ounces of the hydro in 1 gallon of water and 32 ounces of calcium nitrate in the other gallon container (3 parts to 2 parts ratio)
you now have highly concentrated liquid nutrients that go along way and these are now ready to be used at a 50 50 ratio
example. 5 ounces of one 54 ounces of the other into your reservoir etc when running the peters
you can use less ppm?ec as its lower in P which gives qa higher Nitrogen and Potasium level at the same
ppm as other formulas more than 700 ppms on a .5 ec scale is not needed. Nothing else is needed

So after I mix the 48 ounces and the 32 ounces into their separate gallons, how much of each mixture is used per gallon? Milliliters would be easier to measure out since its a liquid now right?
But you say just those 2 nutrients will have everything I need? No calmag, Epsom salt? I'm doing coco so I want to make sure it stays healthy. And what's wrong with just measuring out the dry nutrients and adding it to the resivour?