Produce Male Seeds?

[eastcoastmo]

Nothing wrong with using femmed ceeds for breeding, im breeding my own skunk x blueberry using a femmed skunk ceed and a male blueberry. So far the offspring are vigourus (sp) and the bx beans have produced some nice plants

 

[rob333]

• sorry need to go south i have few plants here from seed under 600w hps veged for 2 weeks then started to flower now its been 2 weeks no sigh of sex i use rock ignite nuts pot hash 1m per ltr water once a day in coco cant work it out any ideas ?​
  
  
  
  

 

[kona gold]

To expand on this specifically, in addition to Sannie, Reddog from Sickmeds has told me personally he won't breed with fems believing it leads to hermies.

I've heard/read Subcool from TGA, Don from DNA Genetics, Scott from Rare Dankness, DJ Short, and Kyle Kushman all say either that they don't use fems (ever) or they won't breed with them. I think (but can't remember for sure) also hearing this from Simon of Serious ceeds.

So I'd say this pretty clearly is the consensus amongst the breeding community; breeding from feminized ceeds is frowned upon. But I am sort of generalizing here; each would probably tell you quite a bit more if you asked them to expand, and I don't want to put words into their mouths.


There are a few breeders who do put out a lot of S1 type plants; so yes, there are some who do this.

There are multiple issues here other than just using feminized beans at SOME point during the breeding process. The biggest one is hybridization and genetic assortment.

It doesn't matter if you hit an elite "clone only" with pollen from itself or even from a male sibling plant (assuming you had access to it, which you wouldn't). All these elite clone plants are hybrids, and if you cross any two hybrids you end up re-rolling the genetic dice and creating a wide variety of phenos. So in this unselected mix of phenos, you're going to get the full bell curve of genetic possibilities, including (if you're lucky) a few really good ones, but also a huge number of mediocre ones, and some really bad ones.

This is specifically why S1 (self pollinated) versions of famous clone only strains are only very rarely as good as the original. They'll usually have some of the good traits from the parent, but they'll also fall short with many others

As a second issue, repeatedly inbreeding the same strain is often problematic, causing loss of vigor and potentially other issues. Inbreeding can causes emergence of deleterious and otherwise rare recessive traits. Its basically the plant equivalent of having kids with your sister, and it doesn't matter if feminization is involved or not.

Aloha Jogrow.
Well i don't agree with the aforementioned breeders. One reason. If you have two females that express zero hermi's no matter if the are stressed, and still wont produce herms. If you cross those two females....the resultant, as long as their was no recessive hermi genes, should produce solid seeds to breed with. It is no different than breeding with a clone. So why would they make that statement!?! Now trying to inbreed selfed plants into say an s-7 is another story, with selections being very critical. But a solid male crossed to a solid fem, should be the same as any male crossed to any female. Cause that female is still xx and not xxx, if you get what i'm saying

 

[Jogro]

Aloha Jogrow.
Well i don't agree with the aforementioned breeders. One reason. If you have two females that express zero hermi's no matter if the are stressed, and still wont produce herms. If you cross those two females....the resultant, as long as their was no recessive hermi genes, should produce solid seeds to breed with. It is no different than breeding with a clone. So why would they make that statement!?! Now trying to inbreed selfed plants into say an s-7 is another story, with selections being very critical.

Well, I don't agree with them either (see above), but bluntly, I don't have even a small fraction of the real world breeding experience that they do. They *do* seem to believe it, or at least they all say it. Maybe there is a good reason. . .I just haven't heard a convincing one. I suspect this is one of those things that's just "breeder superstition". Again, the fact is, a lot of "breeders" do start their lines with reversed elite "clone only" cuts.

Being cynical, perhaps this is just a way for these breeders to try and protect their lines. Some breeders put out only feminized beans, and one reason has to be to prevent other breeders from ripping off their genetics, or even home growers from knocking out some F1s to get free/cheap beans. Perhaps its a way of them denigrating the "pollen chucking" competition that put out lots of S1 and/or reversed clone only F1 crosses.

But a solid male crossed to a solid fem, should be the same as any male crossed to any female. Cause that female is still xx and not xxx, if you get what i'm saying

I think what you're trying to say here is that because genes assort independently during sexual crossing, from a genetic standpoint there should be no functional difference between (XX) x (XX) and (XY) x (XX), *especially* if you're selecting for your traits of interest from the offspring. If so, I agree with that.

 

[kgp]

While I'm not totally convinced that fems are bad for breeding, and will be personally testing your theory on hermie pollen, you pose a good argument.

I currently have 3 seeds germinating from my last grow, where I hit one of my plants with some polen from an ugly-ass hermie (to be fair to her, she did get a bit heat-stressed over the summer due to lack of aeration in my growbox). I'll hit you up with the results!

I look forward to seeing your grow results. I hope you prove me wrong and gets some nice plants. Good luck.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

To expand on this specifically, in addition to Sannie, Reddog from Sickmeds has told me personally he won't breed with fems believing it leads to hermies.

I've heard/read Subcool from TGA, Don from DNA Genetics, Scott from Rare Dankness, DJ Short, and Kyle Kushman all say either that they don't use fems (ever) or they won't breed with them. I think (but can't remember for sure) also hearing this from Simon of Serious ceeds.

So I'd say this pretty clearly is the consensus amongst the breeding community; breeding from feminized ceeds is frowned upon. But I am sort of generalizing here; each would probably tell you quite a bit more if you asked them to expand, and I don't want to put words into their mouths.


There are a few breeders who do put out a lot of S1 type plants; so yes, there are some who do this.

There are multiple issues here other than just using feminized beans at SOME point during the breeding process. The biggest one is hybridization and genetic assortment.

It doesn't matter if you hit an elite "clone only" with pollen from itself or even from a male sibling plant (assuming you had access to it, which you wouldn't). All these elite clone plants are hybrids, and if you cross any two hybrids you end up re-rolling the genetic dice and creating a wide variety of phenos. So in this unselected mix of phenos, you're going to get the full bell curve of genetic possibilities, including (if you're lucky) a few really good ones, but also a huge number of mediocre ones, and some really bad ones.

This is specifically why S1 (self pollinated) versions of famous clone only strains are only very rarely as good as the original. They'll usually have some of the good traits from the parent, but they'll also fall short with many others

As a second issue, repeatedly inbreeding the same strain is often problematic, causing loss of vigor and potentially other issues. Inbreeding can causes emergence of deleterious and otherwise rare recessive traits. Its basically the plant equivalent of having kids with your sister, and it doesn't matter if feminization is involved or not.

Tom Hill disagrees. I'd guess Chimera disagrees as well given how tightly they are working together at the moment. It's all about selection. I'd guess they wouldn't recommend repeated inbreeding with said plants. But a simple cross should pose no problem. And really be no different than any other cross.

I also recently popped a seed from my favorite SP plant that I lost due to unfortunate circumstances. Wasn't selfed. Came from either a Mad Shack or Black Widow plant (donor pollen). Not herm prone plants, just caused by my own dumb light stress (from an extension cord).

Ran all plants that hermed in that room again with no issue. I had no issue with my Extrema herming even with a light leak also, which I found interesting. Also interesting is one of my Extremas was a straight up male plant. It was killed.

So we'll see how bad they are for crossing soon enough.

 

[kona gold]

Tom Hill disagrees. I'd guess Chimera disagrees as well given how tightly they are working together at the moment. It's all about selection. I'd guess they wouldn't recommend repeated inbreeding with said plants. But a simple cross should pose no problem. And really be no different than any other cross.

I also recently popped a seed from my favorite SP plant that I lost due to unfortunate circumstances. Wasn't selfed. Came from either a Mad Shack or Black Widow plant (donor pollen). Not herm prone plants, just caused by my own dumb light stress (from an extension cord).

Ran all plants that hermed in that room again with no issue. I had no issue with my Extrema herming even with a light leak also, which I found interesting. Also interesting is one of my Extremas was a straight up male plant. It was killed.

So we'll see how bad they are for crossing soon enough.

That seems logical enough. Unless someone is popping up a geneyic blueprint for us to see where the degredarion is.

Say, back some years, you purchase a sack of some ultra dank chroic kind bud(sorry for the retro humor attempt), and you are lucky enoughto find one super dark mature see in the very center of the nugg close to the stem, like one of the first group of hairs got hit by one lone pollen grain.....and you find another one just like that one in a different bag of super chronic.
You decide to grow these two seeds...and one turns out male and one female. So you make seeds of these two different strains. Your seeds turn out awesome. They are very consistent and express no hermaphrodites. How would you know if that female was not from a grain of female pollen??
How do we know if some of these seed breeders didnt acquire some of their elite genetics this way, before they did their larger scale breeding and selecting??
I mean look at chemdog......he just popped some bagseed. Could have been from any pollen source.