flushing question

[Trousers]

threads been done a million times before and it is the same people in here arguing every time.

i prefer to flush so i flush, i like my weed better than anybody elses that i have ever tried so i will continue to do whatever it is that i want. i certainly wouldn't listen to anybody on this forum.

Great! Do as you will.
Buds do not store fertilizer.

 

[skunkd0c]

One thing I'm waiting for from all the people that "flush" especially those from the USA is a report from those so called "bud testing" facilities that tell you what toxins they've found in your buds.

I remember SIR GANJA used to use an argument that he sends his product away for testing for this very reason.

However "HE" nor anyone else has EVER shown these reports to convince anyone otherwise.


If there were a "testing facility" in the UK that offered this kind of report on an anonymous basis so that growers were unable to be busted by it, then I would gladly send my own personal smoke away for testing.

Until someone comes up with an actual scientific laboratory report about toxins found in flushed vs unflushed I'm going to stick with what works for me.

All I can say is that I've been on both ends of the spectrum and I'm now getting bigger yields than I ever thought I would with more flavour and aroma than ever used to when I used to flush.

Even salt build up can be over come without flushing vast amounts of water through your rootzone.

You've only got to look around for some publications that are geared towards growing in general, not MJ related, to see that flushing induces stress.

Its much easier to correct salt build up by feeding at reduced strengths. This way the EC in the rootzone doesn't drop too sharply which is the main culprit in leaf discolouration following flushing.



J

i have said a similar thing, why don't the companies that produce the flush formulas, there are many on the market

why do they not produce evidence of how much NPK is left over in plants, and how this would effect human health and or taste lol
instead they talk marketing spiel with a few scientific words thrown in to convince the noobs along with scare tactics about health damage
most do not list what is in their products, claiming its a trade secret or some shit

as-long as it comes in a pretty bottle with a fancy label it might as well be goats piss these fools will buy it

 

[Jbone77]

Why is it that most every chemical nute manufacturer their is says to discontinue using their product in the last week and to just use water? Surely its not because they make more money by consumers not using their product in the final week, surely they dont want the consumer to produce a poor product. So if the manufacturer says to save my money and I will produce the best product by using plain water in the end, what more scientific proof do I need?

 

[Trousers]

Why is it that most every chemical nute manufacturer their is says to discontinue using their product in the last week and to just use water? Surely its not because they make more money by consumers not using their product in the final week, surely they dont want the consumer to produce a poor product. So if the manufacturer says to save my money and I will produce the best product by using plain water in the end, what more scientific proof do I need?

That is not scientific proof.
They tell you to use way too much fert, just like a soap company.
Go ahead and trust them and forget about science if you want.
Buds do not store fertilizer. If they did then the buds would turn yellow when you flush.

 

[Jbone77]

Im not asking if they store ferts or not, im asking why they voluntarily take a profit loss by telling you do discontinue nutes for the last week? Science says buds do not store ferts, fine, they tell you to use too much, fine, that being the case then they could tell you to continue using unneeded ferts for an extra week because it doesnt matter and they wouldnt loose money by telling you to just use water. Companies dont intentionally find ways to deter consumers, they want every dollar they can get, thats business, so your correct, thats not very scientific but im no scientist so I will rely on logical reasoning and assume their is a reason they tell me to discontinue nutes in the last week.

 

[Canibitual]

Here's an old post of mine, this should help a bit for those who care...

On Soil My "flush" is aprox 1/2gallon per pot size, with plain water, 3 days before chop..., I have found this to be the best time for me to clear excess waste from the system... on a hydro system I lower PPM to around 400-500 5 days before chop a full 4x4 or 8x8 table will eat most of that in about 3-5 days depending on reservoir size...

now let me explain the theory..., Picture a Shrimp... now picture eating a shrimp that has a full waste tract (poop)... bitter and nasty... yuck... unlike shrimp, on a plant you can't "de-vain it"... stop the suckers for eating for a day or two... then the garbage is excreted from the shrimp and it tastes good... This is the same with the plant... flush most of the chemicals out of the plant and it will taste "fresh and natural"... but if you insist on flushing multiple times, then you will be underfeeding the plant, creating deficiencies and Ruin some of your work... and possibly ruin the yield of your crop because of starvation...

also... for those of you that use molasses/honey/budcandy/etc... cut it out at least 1 week before chop... I can smell that crap in the plant after harvest... you don't need to be feeding "benificial bacteria" on the last week... and it will NOT add any weight to the plants... it also does not improve the "smell", nor the "taste" or the "resin count"... your best bet instead is to add some MPK... (mono-potassium-phosphate 0-52-34)... (big bud/ Mother of all bloom/liquid cool bloom/etc...) the last two weeks... don't go over 2.8 EC (1400ppm on Ec x 500) and use a base of 700ppm..., last week cut base down to 600ppm and stay at 1400ppm (2.8 Ec) untill flush with tap water... you should bairly get leaf yellowing on the last week... clearing Nitrogen out of the system... and YES... I sugest forceing some yellowing on the last week... as it clears more Nitrogen out and smells better...

Hang drying with leaves on, fan blowing air around to prevent mold, dehumidifier at 50%, and it should take about 1 week to finish drying... if you Trim before it's totally dry... you'll loose smell, and if you trim and bag it before it fully dries... it may smell musky/damp... and get moldy on the inside... and if you don't add the fan circulating air around, you're also more likely to get mold...

hope this info helps...

 

[Canibitual]

Double Post...

 

[Trousers]

Im not asking if they store ferts or not, im asking why they voluntarily take a profit loss by telling you do discontinue nutes for the last week?

There are probably numerous reason. They do tell you to use way to much during the grow.
I imagine they are banking on people thinking a flush is required.

I don't know anyone who follows the feeding instructions on nute bottles.

These same companies want to sell you flushing agents, which are water with a tiny bit of sugar and epsom salt.
They cost about $30 a gallon for salt/sugar water, which is really just incredibly weak fertilizer and does not really flush anything.

Science says buds do not store ferts, fine, they tell you to use too much, fine, that being the case then they could tell you to continue using unneeded ferts for an extra week because it doesnt matter and they wouldnt loose money by telling you to just use water. Companies dont intentionally find ways to deter consumers, they want every dollar they can get, thats business, so your correct, thats not very scientific but im no scientist so I will rely on logical reasoning and assume their is a reason they tell me to discontinue nutes in the last week.

Go ahead. Flushing stresses a plant, period.

 

[Trousers]

On Soil My "flush" is aprox 1/2gallon per pot size, with plain water, 3 days before chop..., I have found this to be the best time for me to clear excess waste from the system... on a hydro system I lower PPM to around 400-500 5 days before chop a full 4x4 or 8x8 table will eat most of that in about 3-5 days depending on reservoir size...

.........................

Sounds like if you feed properly, you would not need to remove waste.

now let me explain the theory..., Picture a Shrimp... now picture eating a shrimp that has a full waste tract (poop)... bitter and nasty... yuck... unlike shrimp, on a plant you can't "de-vain it"... stop the suckers for eating for a day or two... then the garbage is excreted from the shrimp and it tastes good... This is the same with the plant...

This is a terrible analogy and not true at all.
Buds do not store fertilizer. They would turn yellow during flush if they did.

The fertilizer you give plants is completely different by the time it is in the plant.

flush most of the chemicals out of the plant and it will taste "fresh and natural"...

Plants are made of chemicals. Buds do not store fertilizer.

but if you insist on flushing multiple times, then you will be underfeeding the plant, creating deficiencies and Ruin some of your work... and possibly ruin the yield of your crop because of starvation...

Flushing is a bad idea. Plants need food to live.

also... for those of you that use molasses/honey/budcandy/etc... cut it out at least 1 week before chop... I can smell that crap in the plant after harvest... you don't need to be feeding "benificial bacteria" on the last week... and it will NOT add any weight to the plants... it also does not improve the "smell", nor the "taste" or the "resin count"...

Then how can you smell it in the plants?
Those sugars are kind of useless in non soil grows.
I do agree that those products are for the most part a rip off.
$30 a gallon for sugar/salt water is crazy.

your best bet instead is to add some MPK... (mono-potassium-phosphate 0-52-34)... (big bud/ Mother of all bloom/liquid cool bloom/etc...) the last two weeks... don't go over 2.8 EC (1400ppm on Ec x 500) and use a base of 700ppm..., last week cut base down to 600ppm and stay at 1400ppm (2.8 Ec) untill flush with tap water... you should bairly get leaf yellowing on the last week... clearing Nitrogen out of the system... and YES... I sugest forceing some yellowing on the last week... as it clears more Nitrogen out and smells better...

No it doesn't. I agree that in most grows less fertilizer needs to be used at the end. In my soil organic I use plain water most of the time and no teas at the end of flowering. That is not flushing. Flushing soil is a terrible idea.

Hang drying with leaves on, fan blowing air around to prevent mold, dehumidifier at 50%, and it should take about 1 week to finish drying... if you Trim before it's totally dry... you'll loose smell, and if you trim and bag it before it fully dries... it may smell musky/damp... and get moldy on the inside... and if you don't add the fan circulating air around, you're also more likely to get mold...

hope this info helps...

Proper curing is important, flushing makes for worse weed.
There is no way I will stress my plants at a critical time.

My unflushed plants look great, smell great, taste great and burn to a white ash.

How could that be?

 

[Canibitual]

.........................

Sounds like if you feed properly, you would not need to remove waste.



This is a terrible analogy and not true at all.
Buds do not store fertilizer. They would turn yellow during flush if they did.

it's a very good analogy... they do turn yellow... they yellow as they use up the nitrate nitrogen...

....The fertilizer you give plants is completely different by the time it is in the plant.

3 types of nitrate....
pure Nitrate - which is readily usable by the plants
ammoniam nitrate = which breaks down to become pure nitrate
urea nitrate = which also breaks down to become pure nitrate

Plants are made of chemicals. Buds do not store fertilizer.

Im not sure what your trying to say by that... if you truly believe that plants don't "uptake" nutrients, then you seriously have a problem with reality...

Flushing is a bad idea. Plants need food to live.

I believe I addressed that when I said that multiple flushes tends to starve the plant and ruin your work...

Then how can you smell it in the plants?
Those sugars are kind of useless in non soil grows.
I do agree that those products are for the most part a rip off.
$30 a gallon for sugar/salt water is crazy.

Bud Candy, Molasses, etc have more than just "sugar" in them... and those minerals get taken up by the plant and too much of it does in fact "smell funny"

No it doesn't. I agree that in most grows less fertilizer needs to be used at the end. In my soil organic I use plain water most of the time and no teas at the end of flowering. That is not flushing. Flushing soil is a terrible idea.

lets see? less fertilizer in the end... why is that? because it stays in the plant... Just like the overfilled shrimp tract

Proper curing is important, flushing makes for worse weed.
There is no way I will stress my plants at a critical time.

My unflushed plants look great, smell great, taste great and burn to a white ash.

How could that be?

that's pure opinion... your idea of smells great is quite different than others... why do you think they make 10 million types of cologne... ?

 

[Canibitual]

also... You are the guy that said my OG, looked like a "white strain" right?

 

[Jbone77]

There are probably numerous reason. They do tell you to use way to much during the grow.
I imagine they are banking on people thinking a flush is required.

I don't know anyone who follows the feeding instructions on nute bottles.

These same companies want to sell you flushing agents, which are water with a tiny bit of sugar and epsom salt.
They cost about $30 a gallon for salt/sugar water, which is really just incredibly weak fertilizer and does not really flush anything.





Go ahead. Flushing stresses a plant, period.

Why would they "bank" on people flushing if their is no profit and no reason? Dynagro doesnt make a flushing agent but they still say to discontinue nutes in the final week in hydro and 2 weeks in soil? AN would make a tremendous amount more money if you continued their week 7 feeding schedule instead of using final phase? You guys like to talk about science even though none of us are scientists, so here is my science. When all variables have been removed, whatever is left has to be true, why would a company take a voluntary loss (discontinuing nutes) and why would all companies take the same loss(they all say to discontinue nutes)? They all say to discontinue nutes for a reason. You keep saying they tell you to use too much but what difference does that make when science says buds dont store nutes?
Im not knocking what your saying im just trying to understand why its so improbable that all the nute companies have a legitimate reason to tell you not to finish with their product?

 

[Trousers]

also... You are the guy that said my OG, looked like a "white strain" right?

I do not recall that. You might be thinking of someone else.

it's a very good analogy... they do turn yellow... they yellow as they use up the nitrate nitrogen...

My buds don't turn yellow. I don't stress my plants on purpose. I have never seen yellowing buds.
My buds didn't yellow when I flushed.

3 types of nitrate....
pure Nitrate - which is readily usable by the plants
ammoniam nitrate = which breaks down to become pure nitrate
urea nitrate = which also breaks down to become pure nitrate

The plant breaks down fert etc. There isn't fertilizer in your plant.

Im not sure what your trying to say by that... if you truly believe that plants don't "uptake" nutrients, then you seriously have a problem with reality...

They change the nutes into something different that they can use.
You flush, so you are the one that has reality trouble.

I believe I addressed that when I said that multiple flushes tends to starve the plant and ruin your work...

Properly fed plants do not need even one flush. I know, I used to flush.
Flushing soil is really stupid.
Flushing hydro is a last resort when you feed too much and your plants are in danger.

Bud Candy, Molasses, etc have more than just "sugar" in them... and those minerals get taken up by the plant and too much of it does in fact "smell funny"

You contradicted your self.
Paying $30 for a gallon of salt/sugar water is perfect for people who flush.

lets see? less fertilizer in the end... why is that? because it stays in the plant... Just like the overfilled shrimp tract

Not even close. You want to compare shrimp and weed? lol.
You use less fertilizer at the end because the plant needs less.
If I mix organic soil properly, I could go from seed to buds with out any added nutrients, just plain water.
Why would I want to wash away beneficial microbes? That would be really dumb.

that's pure opinion... your idea of smells great is quite different than others... why do you think they make 10 million types of cologne... ?

My weed is great. Every body that has tried it loves it. It is better than when I was dumb enough to flush.
That is fact. You do not have to believe me.

I really do not care if people flush, but spreading lies about it to new growers is pretty douchey.

Why not try a side by side test?

I have done it and quickly realized there is no reason to flush.

 

[Trousers]

Why would they "bank" on people flushing if their is no profit and no reason?

I do not know and I do not care to find out.
That is not a good reason to flush.

Dynagro doesnt make a flushing agent but they still say to discontinue nutes in the final week in hydro and 2 weeks in soil? AN would make a tremendous amount more money if you continued their week 7 feeding schedule instead of using final phase?

That is not a good reason to flush.
It is not logical.

You guys like to talk about science even though none of us are scientists, so here is my science. When all variables have been removed, whatever is left has to be true,

If you start with a faulty premise like that, you have abandoned science.

why would a company take a voluntary loss (discontinuing nutes) and why would all companies take the same loss(they all say to discontinue nutes)? They all say to discontinue nutes for a reason. You keep saying they tell you to use too much but what difference does that make when science says buds dont store nutes?

If you look around on this forum, there are many posts that basically break down why flushing is really dumn. Chuck explained it really well.
Do you disagree that buds do not store nutes?

Why didn't my buds turn yellow when I flushed? The leaves did.

Im not knocking what your saying im just trying to understand why its so improbable that all the nute companies have a legitimate reason to tell you not to finish with their product?

You are assuming they have a legitimate reason.


I don't give a toss about bottled nutes because I don't use them anymore. When I did, I never followed any of their advice, it would have killed or stressed my plants into producing male flowers.

I used to flush coco. I stopped. My weed is great. It burns to a white ash and has a great flavor and smell.
I see no reason to stress your plant by depriving it of food at a critical time.

 

[Trousers]

I think that picking your plant at the wrong time will hurt the flavor and possibly make it burn black.
When you pick during the light cycle the plant has starches at high levels. When you pick at the end of the dark cycle, before the lights turn on, the plant's starches are at a very low level.


Chuck is much better at this than I am.

I have science on my side, see nutrients are broken down into ions, this is what an ION is
An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving the atom a net positive or negative electrical charge.
Ions can be created by both chemical and physical means. In chemical terms, if a neutral atom loses one or more electrons, it has a net positive charge and is known as a cation. If an atom gains electrons, it has a net negative charge and is known as an anion. An ion consisting of a single atom is an atomic or monatomic ion; if it consists of two or more atoms, it is a molecular or polyatomic ion.
In the case of physical ionization of a medium, such as a gas, what are known as "ion pairs" are created by ion impact, and each pair consists of a free electron and a positive ion.[SUP][1]


DOESN"T MATTER IF IT"S ORGANIC OR SYNTHETIC< THE PLANT DOESN"T KNOW THE DIF.[/SUP]

how do plants absorb cations you ask?

The roots release hydrogen ions into the soil, leaving a negative charge in the roots. The cations, being positively charged, are attracted to the negative charge.

more science

http://www.soilminerals.com/Bear_cations-anions-plants-crop quality 1950.pdf

If you feel like reading about why you should not flush, here you go:
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/409622-truth-about-flushing.html

It is fine if you flush, but do not try to convince noobs that they should stress their plants too.


If you read all that and still flush, lol at you.

 

[Canibitual]

I was not the originator of all of those posts... you just got too lazy and didn't Quote the correct owners.. not that anything you said made sense...

The plant breaks down fert etc. There isn't fertilizer in your plant.

No Dumbass... They are "elements" on the periodic table If you think you can convert N to something else... then Try changing Pb to Au... LOL

 

[Trousers]

I was not the originator of all of those posts... you just got too lazy and didn't Quote the correct owners.. not that anything you said made sense...

I fixed the quotes, it was an honest mistake. It is hard to keep up with all the terrible opinions about flushing.

No Dumbass... They are "elements" on the periodic table If you think you can convert N to something else... then Try changing Pb to Au... LOL

The food changes into ions, that is how it gets in the plant.

Read the links I posted and shut your whore mouth.

 

[Canibitual]

these two tidbits of info from your own post should help you understand that,...

1) Plants Uptake many things that they do not eat... (that's why molasses smells)
2) Some Elements move up and down the plant... (otherwise known as Storing them)

I know #2 is going to be hard for you to understand... but look at a garden hose... when water is "traveling through" it, it is also "Storing it" in the hose

However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.


1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.


2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.


http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu


Storage organelles:


Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though

 

[Canibitual]

ps...

(NO2 ) stored. in soil can be converted. into nitrate ions[FONT=arial, sans-serif] (NO3)... that's NITROGEN WITH 2 OXYGEN Molecules Converting To NITROGEN WITH 3 OXYGEN Molecules

SO Good Luck with that....[/FONT]

 

[Jbone77]

Ok, you are right, the fact that every single chemical nutrient manufacturer says you should discontinue using their product in the last week of a hydroponic grow, thus costing them money, says nothing to the fact that their may be something in them that you should not consume, it just shows that every single chemical nute manufacturer has no idea how to run a business and want their consumers to have poor harvest from unhealthy plants. It is probably a conspiracy and they collectively started this forum myth to see who could take the biggest quarterly loss by people not using their products and are secretly all sitting in a conference room laughing their asses off that people actually believe it.