The UK Growers Thread!

ScottishWeedman

ScottishWeedman

Active Member
Bertie Bassett said:
Just so we all understand......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

"A mycorrhiza (Gk. μυκός, mykós, "fungus" and ριζα, riza, "roots", pl. mycorrhizae or mycorrhizas) is a symbiotic (generally mutualistic, but occasionally weakly pathogenic) association between a fungus and the roots of a vascular plant.
In a mycorrhizal association, the fungus colonizes the host plant's roots, either intracellularly as in arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF or AM), orextracellularly as in ectomycorrhizal fungi. They are an important component of soil life and soil chemistry.

Mycorrhizae form a mutualistic relationship with the roots of most plant species.

This mutualistic association provides the fungus with relatively constant and direct access to carbohydrates, such as glucose and sucrose. The carbohydrates are translocated from their source (usually leaves) to root tissue and on to the plant's fungal partners. In return, the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients due to the comparatively large surface area of mycelium: root ratio, thus improving the plant's mineral absorption capabilities."


If you feed the sugars directly to the bacteria via the soil with something like molasses then this removes the need to translocate from the plant, ergo improved efficiency to a natural system.

It's noob myth busting 101 ffs!
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View attachment 2858709????????????
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Bertie Bassett said:
The bacteria attaches to the plants roots creating a sort of partnership, the benefit to the plant from the bacteria is that it can uptake minerals more efficiently, the bacteria feeds on sugars, these sugars are taken from the plant.

Feed the bacteria sugar directly and the process is more efficient.
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old news mate..........heres some current research using carbon 14 tracer........not hearsay
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
[h=2]Abstract[/h]The re-sorption of carbon compounds from the rhizosphere was investigated using [SUP]14[/SUP]C-labelled glucose, mannose and citric acid. Uptake in roots of 5-day-old, intact Zea mays plants in sterile solution culture was determined over a period of 48 hours. Under optimal growth conditions significant re-absorption of glucose and mannose occurred with the uptake rates being 70.5 and 40.2 μg compound g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP], respectively. For glucose and mannose approximately 25% of the [SUP]14[/SUP]C label taken up by the root was recovered inside the plant as low-MW compounds and 33% polymerized into high MW compounds. 42% was respired as [SUP]14[/SUP]C-CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. Citric acid by comparison showed little accumulation within plant tissues (11.4%) with most being respired and recovered as [SUP]14[/SUP]C-CO[SUB]2[/SUB] in KOH traps (88%). The uptake rate for citric acid was 34.8 μg g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP]. Over the 48-hour period a net efflux (i.e. exudation) of labelled plus unlabelled C was observed at a rate of 608 μg C g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP] (equivalent to 1520 μg glucose/mannose). Of the C released as root exudates, a minimum estimate of the amount of C taken back into the plant was therefore 9.5%. The two main C fluxes within the rhizosphere, namely release of C by the root and uptake by the microorganisms, have been well documented in recent years. It is now apparent however that a third flux term, re-sorption of C by roots, can also be identified. This may play an important but previously overlooked role within the rhizosphere, and further work is needed to determine its significance.
A comparison between exudate release in static (permitting accumulation of C) and flowing culture (C removed as it is released) was also made with the respective rates being 15.36 and 45.18 mg C g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW in 2 days. The relative important of re-sorption in natural environments and laboratory experiments is discussed.
 
Bertie Bassett

Bertie Bassett

Member
zeddd said:
old news mate..........heres some current research using carbon 14 tracer........not hearsay
Click to expand...
zeddd said:
Abstract

The re-sorption of carbon compounds from the rhizosphere was investigated using [SUP]14[/SUP]C-labelled glucose, mannose and citric acid. Uptake in roots of 5-day-old, intact Zea mays plants in sterile solution culture was determined over a period of 48 hours. Under optimal growth conditions significant re-absorption of glucose and mannose occurred with the uptake rates being 70.5 and 40.2 μg compound g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP], respectively. For glucose and mannose approximately 25% of the [SUP]14[/SUP]C label taken up by the root was recovered inside the plant as low-MW compounds and 33% polymerized into high MW compounds. 42% was respired as [SUP]14[/SUP]C-CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. Citric acid by comparison showed little accumulation within plant tissues (11.4%) with most being respired and recovered as [SUP]14[/SUP]C-CO[SUB]2[/SUB] in KOH traps (88%). The uptake rate for citric acid was 34.8 μg g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP]. Over the 48-hour period a net efflux (i.e. exudation) of labelled plus unlabelled C was observed at a rate of 608 μg C g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW h[SUP]-1[/SUP] (equivalent to 1520 μg glucose/mannose). Of the C released as root exudates, a minimum estimate of the amount of C taken back into the plant was therefore 9.5%. The two main C fluxes within the rhizosphere, namely release of C by the root and uptake by the microorganisms, have been well documented in recent years. It is now apparent however that a third flux term, re-sorption of C by roots, can also be identified. This may play an important but previously overlooked role within the rhizosphere, and further work is needed to determine its significance.
A comparison between exudate release in static (permitting accumulation of C) and flowing culture (C removed as it is released) was also made with the respective rates being 15.36 and 45.18 mg C g[SUP]-1[/SUP] root DW in 2 days. The relative important of re-sorption in natural environments and laboratory experiments is discussed.
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And your point is?
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
heres some more peer reviewed research showing amino acids also are actively transported into the roots.................................................[h=2]Abstract[/h]The aim of the study was to investigate the ability of intact Zea mays. L. roots to regulate the amount of free amino-acids present in the rhizosphere. Using metabolic inhibitors it was demonstrated that the release of amino-acids from the root occurred by passive diffusion, whilst free amino-acids outside the root could be re-captured by an active transport mechanism. The influx of amino-acids into the root was shown to be relatively independent of spatial location along the root and was little affected by the presence of other organic compounds in solution. It was deduced from root concentration gradients that the main site of amino-acid exudation was at root tips. Amino-acid uptake by the root was shown to be independent of both inorganic-N concentration and the presence of other organic solutes in solution. A computer simulation model was constructed to assess the contribution of organic-N uptake (acidic, basic and neutral amino-acids) to the plant's N budget, in comparison to the inorganic solutes NO[SUB]3[/SUB] and NH[SUB]4[/SUB]. Simulations of N uptake from a 0.5 mm radius rhizosphere indicated that when inorganic-N concentrations in soil were limiting (&#8804;0.1 &#956;moles cm[SUP]-3[/SUP] soil), the uptake of amino-N accounted for up to 90% the total N taken up by the roots. In situations where fertilizer inputs are high, and levels of organic matter in soil are low, the contribution of amino-N might still be expected to form <30% of the total N taken up by the root system. It was concluded that the uptake of amino-acids from the rhizosphere may be important in both N nutrition and in the minimization of root C and N losses to the soil. Consequently this may be important in
 
Bertie Bassett

Bertie Bassett

Member
zeddd said:
the point made by the research is thar roots absorb sugar directly
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OK, I take the point that used sugars could be replaced directly.
How is this relevant to the fact that those sugars are used to feed fungi and not the plant?

Then there's using molasses in a non true organic environment rendering the whole process pointless (hydroponics).
 
ScottishWeedman

ScottishWeedman

Active Member
photo 1.JPGphoto 4.JPGphoto 2.JPGphoto 3.JPGphoto 5.JPGphoto 1 (1).JPGphoto 2 (1).JPG My blue dream and BB cheese flowers

photo 2 (2).JPGphoto 1 (2).JPGphoto 4 (1).JPGphoto 5 (1).JPGphoto 3 (2).JPGphoto 3 (1).JPGphoto 5 (2).JPGphoto 4 (2).JPG
My dippy elssy, engineers dream x deep blue & casey jones veggies from breeders boutique, 5 or so weeks from seed so far another 2 week till flip to 12/12
 
ScottishWeedman

ScottishWeedman

Active Member
noticed this on 2 leaves on 1 of my Dippy plants was nowhere else or any other plants, any ideas what it might be?? i think it cud pos be a little splash back from the last feed 2 days ago and caused a little burning,

photo (1).JPG sorry bout the shitty pic this iphone cam is fucked
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
Bertie Bassett said:
OK, I take the point that used sugars could be replaced directly.
How is this relevant to the fact that those sugars are used to feed fungi and not the plant?

Then there's using molasses in a non true organic environment rendering the whole process pointless (hydroponics).
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the debate is not if microbes benefit from molasses, that is self evident, what turb is observing in coco is benefits due to active transport, coco has no significant population of microbes to benefit from molasses so the benefit he is claiming and I am supporting with research is direct absorption of carbs thru the roots......aminos too, according t the eggheads
 
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