sump pump + dehumidifier + waterproof room design to prevent h&m for underground g.r?

[justugh]

just want to point out this is false, if this were true we'd be finding a lot more dead bodies in grow rooms...

straight from wiki:
CO[SUB]2[/SUB] is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy.[SUP][79][/SUP] Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[SUP][81][/SUP]

check the history books about a lake that burped(after earth quake) co2 in china and killed a whole village.............why do u think they tel u smog warnings that is Co2 warnings anything over 700 ppm is a red day

house avg is 300.............outside avg is 150

 

[justugh]

Another question about the 6ft dog thing...

If I have a sealed trapdoor, could I put some big metal tube with a ladder and asealable lid on top of trap door so I only have to dig a couple of feet...or will this totally negate the whole 6ft under dog smelling rule If their nose has a access point only 2ft under dirt with 4feet of sealed air? Don't want to have to dig 6ft to door every entry, but if it'd nessesary to be dog proof ill do it. And ill Develop some strong sholders in the process.

the 6 foot thing is proven from dead bodies ...........any higher then 6 feet wild animals would dig up the bodies and tare into them for food 6 feet is the minial depth that a dogs nose will not hit above that they can find it

as for entering u said u were using a green house for the venting and i was getting the entering point to adviod tracks in snow or path in grass

given this u just have to plant the right chillis and jasmine in the green house and the entering and exit will be covered by that
and u have to go down atleast 3 feet if u are in a winter zone to be below the frozen lvl

 

[justugh]

Ah ok tell me if I've got it. I'm first going to dig elevated trenches (outside of the floor at a slope with trenches in it leading to the big pit in the center) then the sump pump is placed in that hole with the water level activation valve and the output water of the pump should be ran away from the room. (Can I leave the output end underground?) then the foundation, then gravel, (leaving 4 in before the room) Then in the floor I need a inch and a half hole for air to come in and created pressure on the water. Then put another hole that is sealed with a drainage system to dump any unneeded water?

the output of the sump pump needs to be away from your area ...............the normal house owner thing is to pump it up and then have a drain hose outside and about 50 feet of tube going away from the house and that is on a down ward slope away from your area

but the rest of it is right
please double check with others but those things should give u a functional area for a fairly long time (more then enough to recoop the cost)

this will give u a place to drain water away

 

[puppetstring]

check the history books about a lake that burped(after earth quake) co2 in china and killed a whole village.............why do u think they tel u smog warnings that is Co2 warnings anything over 700 ppm is a red day

house avg is 300.............outside avg is 150

I looked into it, it sound like you are talking about Lake Nyos in 1986. Heres an article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos The problem is it doesnt say the concentration. Also I think you are a bit confused when it comes to smog. CO2 is just one of the constituents of smog. Ground-level ozone, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide are all constituents that are toxic in MUCH lower concentrations. For example 30.4 ppm for carbon monoxide and only 1.24 ppm for sulfur dioxide! Yikes! So when you say 700ppm of smog is unhealthy, I dont doubt you, but for the purposes of indoor growing we are talking about 1500 ppm of pure CO2 from a bottle or a generator which is perfectly safe for humans.

Also, not sure where you are getting your averages... I was always told the atmospheric average was about 400 ppm (thats why some co2 controllers have a 1 button 400 ppm fresh air calibration) and lo and behold, when I looked into it, I found a website that shows the average for the month from the Mauna Loa observatory http://co2now.org/ Have a look, just under 400 ppm.

Normally I wouldnt push the issue, but I think its unwise to state as a fact that 1500 ppm of pure CO2 is toxic if you spend a few minutes in your grow room. I'm sure some CO2 users will chime in that they're still alive. Theres no sense in discouraging people from using CO2

okay so ive been posting a good bit about this and im back with another consideration.........I want to dig a big hole around 16x18 and put a 12x14 sized room inside. this room needs to be waterproof to prevent humidity and mold AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, just enough to not seap through I understand there will be some moisture(that's where dehumidifier comes in) room will have many layers of waterproofing materials, epoxys, seals, roofing, tileing, etc on the outside sealed all the way to prevent water from entering as much as possible. (then the extra space filled in with dirt).........but I found out this will not be enough to keep water and mold out so underneath the foundation, I will also install a sump pump in the very center of the hole and run it through pvc far away from the grow room hole, so most of the excess water will be drained away from the hole........on top of this a powerful dehumidifier will be ran in the room (and yes there will be venting)...........so what are anybodys thoughts on this? should it work good enough to prevent a lot of mold and most moisture? how to use the sump pump most effectively? anything else I should know?..........please do not comment if your going to bring up some totally irrelevant point about my idea, I promise its been brought up to me before and its being considered. I did not include every little portion of my plan because it would become a book(as if not long enough already)........oh and sorry for the long paragraph it wont let me break to the next line for some reason, look at the dotdotdots at a break in the paragraph.

OK, to the OP: I've been thinking about this a bit and just wanted to bring something to your attention. What are you going to do with all the dirt you dig out of this hole? Lets do some math: We'll use a depth of 12 feet for the purpose of this exercise. 16x18x12=3,456 cubic feet. Divided by 27 to get cubic yards=128 cubic yards. That is the volume of dirt in it's in-situ or "bank" density. If you've ever dug a hole and filled it back in, you know that dirt swells when you dig it up. Standard soil will swell 20-30% when dug up. So multiply your 128 cu. yd by 1.25 and you are talking about 160 cu yd of dirt you need to covertly move away from your site... To put this in perspective a tri-axle dump truck holds about 30 cu yd. Not exactly the amount you can dump out by the pocket full in the yard shawshank redemption style...

A few other things to think about. ROOTS. They are a bitch. One time I was using an auger to bore 18 holes and ran into lots of roots I had to sever. Subsequent limbs of the surrounding trees died. One tree (75' tall!) had to be completely cut down cause it was in the suburbs and it was dropping limbs left and right... and thats just from digging 18 holes 12" in diameter 40" deep. What im trying to say is that after you dig this hole there is gonna be a bunch dead trees surrounding your location which someone would undoubtedly investigate.

Before you do any digging you should call your local 811, "Call before you dig" to have underground utilities marked. I'm going to assume you won't do this for stealth reasons.

I dont doubt your intentions, nor do I want to rain on your parade but I'm just worried one day you'll stop logging on and I can only assume you've hit a gas line and blown yourself up, or that your hole has caved in with you in it. Or that you suffocated from 1500 ppm of co2 lololololololol!!! not

 

[urabus2005]

have you considered burying a shipping container?

 

[puppetstring]

have you considered burying a shipping container?

this was mentioned in one of dude's several other threads on the same subject. sounds like he's planning on using wood and joint compound (lol), cause apparently concrete is "unnecessary

16x18x12 is a pretty big grave to dig yourself

 

[dylan843]

the 6 foot thing is proven from dead bodies ...........any higher then 6 feet wild animals would dig up the bodies and tare into them for food 6 feet is the minial depth that a dogs nose will not hit above that they can find it

as for entering u said u were using a green house for the venting and i was getting the entering point to adviod tracks in snow or path in grass

given this u just have to plant the right chillis and jasmine in the green house and the entering and exit will be covered by that
and u have to go down atleast 3 feet if u are in a winter zone to be below the frozen lvl

You didn't answer my question...so does it have to be a solid 6 ft all out of could I use the metal tube I said I my last post

 

[dylan843]

this was mentioned in one of dude's several other threads on the same subject. sounds like he's planning on using wood and joint compound (lol), cause apparently concrete is "unnecessary

16x18x12 is a pretty big grave to dig yourself

Dude I'm so sick of you negitive ass people that keep assuming shit. I'm not using only wood and joint compound I'm just not going to listevery fucking step in waterproofing, and no shit the hole is big that was a quality obversavtion I had no idea, that's why I'm using excavator to dig it.

 

[dylan843]

As for the dirt it will be a good bit of work but not near inpossble will take me like one full day to sped it all out over the forest floor.

Yes roots are a bitch, I was using a bc hainsaw abd pick axe to get thru them. Am just gunna get a excavator.

 

[dylan843]

have you considered burying a shipping container?

How much are they? I have no idea how I'd get one to my house without all the neighbors like wtf.

 

[dylan843]

the output of the sump pump needs to be away from your area ...............the normal house owner thing is to pump it up and then have a drain hose outside and about 50 feet of tube going away from the house and that is on a down ward slope away from your area

but the rest of it is right
please double check with others but those things should give u a functional area for a fairly long time (more then enough to recoop the cost)

this will give u a place to drain water away

Explain exactly how I should run the outpipeof the sump pump. It cant be seen or that totally negates all this other shit I'm doing

 

[dylan843]

Oh and before some other smart ass posts yes I know I have to shore the walls

 

[puppetstring]

what is so alarming about this plan (or lack thereof) is that you spend so much time talking about sump pumps, IR detection and running your grow off of batteries than you do talking about how you're going to keep 12 feet of soil from caving in. Forgive me if you've already got this all figured out, maybe you could talk about it a little bit?


Take 20 mins to watch this series of 6 short youtube videos on safe excavation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIthR6akGtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUgjbIK0r0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagy1JPm0kk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USat6LdENzU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y5lsem9r4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWRYH0Hd9hM

 

[dylan843]

what is so alarming about this plan (or lack thereof) is that you spend so much time talking about sump pumps, IR detection and running your grow off of batteries than you do talking about how you're going to keep 12 feet of soil from caving in. Forgive me if you've already got this all figured out, maybe you could talk about it a little bit?


Take 20 mins to watch this series of 6 short youtube videos on safe excavation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIthR6akGtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUgjbIK0r0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagy1JPm0kk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USat6LdENzU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y5lsem9r4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWRYH0Hd9hM

Thanks for that I will definately check it out. The original plan was to shore the walls andthen build the dwelling inside of the shored up then once finished remove the shoring and let it fill in.

Also planned on putting pressure on the walls with the excav to compress them and have them hold together a little better, then shore it.

 

[dylan843]

I don't understand how I am going to shore this and build everything around that. I think I'm going to have to go with sloping

 

[puppetstring]

Now you are on the right page. The steepness of the slope is known as the angle of repose. In a perfect world, you would have a geotechnical engineer and a surveyor come in, shoot some points and dig a test pit or bore out a core sample. He or she would give you a soil report and specify the minimum angle of repose. If this is not possible use the standard conservative estimate, one and a half times the depth. So 12x1.5=18 feet. Thats 18 feet back from the edges, not from the center. So if you want the bottom of the hole to be 16x18 the top, add 36' to each dimension, the top of your hole would need to be 52x54. If you only wanted the bottom of the hole to be 12x14, the top would have to be 48x50. These numbers are based on a depth of 12'. Now that you have some safe working dimensions, you can go out with some stakes and string and mark out your excavation. Measure corner to corner to ensure squareness.

So now lets figure out how much volume that is. For a 16x18x12 hole we figured out earlier 128 cu yds. (not including the angle of repose) If you remember from geometry class the area of a right triangle is 1.5(basexheight). 1.5(18x12)=324 sq feet. This is just the cross sectional area of your angle of repose. Multiply 324 sq ft by the number of lineal feet, which is simply the perimeter of the bottom of the hole, 68 (16+16+18+1. 324x68=392 cu ft. Divide by 27 to get cu yd. Thats an extra 14.5 cu yds. Its actually more than that because i didnt account for the extra bits in the corners. Lets call it 18 cu yds for you angle of repose. Multiply by that by your swell factor of 1.25=22.5 cu yd. Add that to 128 and you are looking at a little of 150 cu yds of dirt to move.

There are formulas out there that you can apply your 150 cu yd volume to in order to figure out how long it will take you to dig the hole, but without knowing specifics of the excavator such as the bucket volume, and your personal cycle time (your skills/experience with an excavator) its just a shot in the dark. And that would just give you the amount of time it would take you to excavate, not getting rid of/spreading the dirt.

 

[justugh]

You didn't answer my question...so does it have to be a solid 6 ft all out of could I use the metal tube I said I my last post

u can use a man hole system to get into the room ...................just where ever u have it opening too u need a few plants around it to mask the lering smells when u open and leave the rooms / move stuff up and down the pathway out

smells will stay around (water holds them) so in the tube the water will retain it after a few hours the smell will natural break up (like with running from dogs ) .....if u can keep the tube dry and send warm air down into it to dry it up faster then the smell will be going in matter of 30 45 mins

when u run from the cops the woods and high grass is not your friend u want desert type ...............cross the feild in the late morning once the sun hits it and warms up the smell floats off

 

[justugh]

the pipe out is simple

when u put the system in and before u back fill u lay the line up as u get close to the top u can grab a (trench ripper they use this to cut a trench in the ground to lay cable power lines and water system )

fropm the point that it has go up high enough u add a 90 degree angle ...............cut the trench away and down slope from your spot bury the line go out your distance then have the line head poke out give it 3 4 inches on top then it runs off

if someone askes what u are doing tell them laying Pex line for a drain system for your greenhouse

Pex line is the most common line used to make watering system in the yards of rich ppl

 

[dylan843]

Now you are on the right page. The steepness of the slope is known as the angle of repose. In a perfect world, you would have a geotechnical engineer and a surveyor come in, shoot some points and dig a test pit or bore out a core sample. He or she would give you a soil report and specify the minimum angle of repose. If this is not possible use the standard conservative estimate, one and a half times the depth. So 12x1.5=18 feet. Thats 18 feet back from the edges, not from the center. So if you want the bottom of the hole to be 16x18 the top, add 36' to each dimension, the top of your hole would need to be 52x54. If you only wanted the bottom of the hole to be 12x14, the top would have to be 48x50. These numbers are based on a depth of 12'. Now that you have some safe working dimensions, you can go out with some stakes and string and mark out your excavation. Measure corner to corner to ensure squareness.

So now lets figure out how much volume that is. For a 16x18x12 hole we figured out earlier 128 cu yds. (not including the angle of repose) If you remember from geometry class the area of a right triangle is 1.5(basexheight). 1.5(18x12)=324 sq feet. This is just the cross sectional area of your angle of repose. Multiply 324 sq ft by the number of lineal feet, which is simply the perimeter of the bottom of the hole, 68 (16+16+18+1. 324x68=392 cu ft. Divide by 27 to get cu yd. Thats an extra 14.5 cu yds. Its actually more than that because i didnt account for the extra bits in the corners. Lets call it 18 cu yds for you angle of repose. Multiply by that by your swell factor of 1.25=22.5 cu yd. Add that to 128 and you are looking at a little of 150 cu yds of dirt to move.

There are formulas out there that you can apply your 150 cu yd volume to in order to figure out how long it will take you to dig the hole, but without knowing specifics of the excavator such as the bucket volume, and your personal cycle time (your skills/experience with an excavator) its just a shot in the dark. And that would just give you the amount of time it would take you to excavate, not getting rid of/spreading the dirt.

Well the surveyor is out of the question, and I am going to do the standard angle of repose, but the soil is very thick and damp and holds together well...typically would that call for a bigger or small A.o.r.? (Depth will be be ~14ft btw, so ill have to expand on ur estimation a tad)

I went out and found a new spot to accomidate for the new spacial requirements, and I will be renting the smallest and cheapest possible excavator that will be able to do the job effeciently for one week so that should be plenty of time toget this done with a good work ethic.

 

[dylan843]

As far the dug out dirt ill pile it up big. Since i have it a week that should be enough time to dig it out then build the dwelling (have everything pre built as mucb as possible for times sake) then once its done ill fill back in with the dirt. So really ill only have the dirt the size of the room to remove which isn't a crazy amount