Defoliate or not to defoliate
- Thread starter M1ChAeL
- Start date
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
an absolute statement that is only partially true is invalid
the comments about defoliation are misguided
many growers practice canopy management, selective removal of leaves and branches when attempting to maximize the bud produced in a given space
screen of green, LST these methods benefit from some leaf removal, sog can benefit from lower branch removal and leaf removal to create a single cola
i have practiced these kinds of grows successfully for around 20 years, i am happy with the results
defoliation is a word that generates strong reactions, the term itself is misused much to the delight of trolls
all "green" parts of the plant can be considered foliage branches and leaves
removal of any parts of the plant is a form of defoliation or pruning
defoliation has become so much more of an issue than it really is, this is mostly because of trolls like uncleben
it's not magic and its not going to turn the plant hermi or kill it either, it is just another method of pruning that needs to be tailored to each individuals environment
practiced until the grower either gets it right for their grow, or decides other methods are more practical,
sometimes bending branches tucking leaves under and using cages to open up the structure of the plant can also be used instead of, or to assist defoliation
it flies in the face of logic to assume that plants left to grow shaded will produce the same yield as organised plants trained to occupy a given space with cola
removing some leaves and branches can help shape the crop, so the maximum amount of branches are in the maximum amount of light
each branch will have some leaves remaining each bud will produce leaves
this is much better than having leaves shading these branches and shading each other
indoors under static artificial light where the light is only coming from directly above, which accounts for the majority of grows
the plant would not grow in its best possible shape under these conditions, the top heavy shaded shape many indicas grow in under these conditions is not helpful
left to themselves they would yield not so well
open them up with a tomato cage or something similar, remove a few leaves and the inner branches will develop into colas
overall the result is more cola in a given space since the space is only filled with healthy branches that produce colas
peace
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with that doc. OP was talking about stripping the entire plant of it's leaves. That's nonsense. There is a big difference between that, and what you're talking about.
I agree with your assessment of Uncle Ben btw.
I agree with your assessment of Uncle Ben btw.
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
i only learnt the term "defoliation" a few years ago when folk where fighting about it with hempy onI don't disagree with that doc. OP was talking about stripping the entire plant of it's leaves. That's nonsense. There is a big difference between that, and what you're talking about.
I agree with your assessment of Uncle Ben btw.
the mns forum , thread after thread about it, i have no idea why its such an issue for some
i see no need for this defoliation word at all, or to separate it from topping or lolipoping etc etc
its all called "pruning" or training" that's what i always called it, when you join growing forums
you find they have lots of new words for different forms of training and pruning , its hard keeping up with them all lol
why do some folk think it is ok to chop the top branch off "topping" but cutting 1 healthy leaf off is sacrilege
this position is illogical to me
the problem is these idiots that make these youtube videos and say pick all the leaves off the plants
or most of the leaves because this removal of leaves will directly stimulate bud production
we all know this is utter nonsense, but it will not kill the plant or turn it hermi either
the leaves will grow back,
this is why the absolute black and white type statement that other idiot hyroot made is not helpful
it is what causes this problem where noobs are unable to distinguish canopy management from
the crazy idea of removing all the leaves for the sake of it
peace
hyroot
Well-Known Member
^^^^ I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but I disagree. from 14 years of experience. I have done side by side several times. The largest buds and largest yields came from the plants with larger and more lush leaves . If you have enough par from your lighting , intensity is irrelevant. As long as the leaves are getting that light, the buds will do well.. Provided all other aspects of the grow are good too. I'm all about vert growing. I don't like to prune anything.
tekdc911
Well-Known Member
ok i missed alot
i have reasoning behind defoliating
this plant needs ALOT of air circulation its been hanging out in a 1'x1' spot in my perpetual auto grow for about 5 months been root bound many times over
i was just spiraling it back on itself and tying it down
i am just now paying attention to it im crossing it with a couple kinds of auto pollen
its a beast the second pic doesnt do it justice i had literally just pinched every shoot there's at least 100 of them i had to pull it out of its scrog to do it this plant stretched out fills a 2'x3' scrog with 1" holes almost totally
i have reasoning behind defoliating
this plant needs ALOT of air circulation its been hanging out in a 1'x1' spot in my perpetual auto grow for about 5 months been root bound many times over
i was just spiraling it back on itself and tying it down
i am just now paying attention to it im crossing it with a couple kinds of auto pollen
its a beast the second pic doesnt do it justice i had literally just pinched every shoot there's at least 100 of them i had to pull it out of its scrog to do it this plant stretched out fills a 2'x3' scrog with 1" holes almost totally
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
When your false black and white statements are shown to be invalid you see this as hurting someones feelings ?^^^^ I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but I disagree. from 14 years of experience. I have done side by side several times. The largest buds and largest yields came from the plants with larger and more lush leaves . If you have enough par from your lighting , intensity is irrelevant. As long as the leaves are getting that light, the buds will do well.. Provided all other aspects of the grow are good too. I'm all about vert growing. I don't like to prune anything.
i hope this is not one of those "are you mad bro" type conversations teenagers have on YouTube
anyway
there is nothing for you to disagree with
it's perfectly acceptable for you to state that your own personal experiments involving defoliation were not successful and that you prefer other methods(vertical)
but to disagree or claim that my personal defoliation/pruning experiments were not successful, based on YOUR own failure is invalid
However i never promote defoliation in particular and always advise caution, because of all the missleading information around
i only promote individuals experimenting for themselves with all forms of training if this is what they wish to do
maybe i am quick to judge but you come across to me as a bit of a poser who preaches to people
i recall you crying about the cost of clonex (rooting hormone) and suggesting that it causes cancer lol
and that everyone should use aloe vera or they are "idiots" you love these black and white preaching style false statements it seems lol
peace
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I use aloe vera on my plants in a soil drench and foliar and for cloning. I said chems that plants uptake will still be in buds or fruits and vegetables and can lead to cancer. Which has already been proven by various university and agricultural studies.. Any pruning of any kind imo should only be done during veg. Nothing of the sort during flower. Now defoliation is considered to be removing fan leaves through out flower. Doing that will stunt bud growth as the plant will direct its energy towards healing more so than bud growth. You strike me as the person who has to argue everything to death no matter if you are right or wrong. How would I be a poser? I don't pretend to grow...
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
My observations are different
i remove leaves at anytime during veg and flower should i feel that it benefits the overall garden for the reasons i have given already
since i will be growing plants close together, my plants tend to be large and produce a large number of leaves many overlapping on neighbor plants
i am not sure why you function in this world of absolutes "pruning should only be done during veg, nothing of the sort during flower"
that's such a stagnant way of thinking to me
although
an egg should only be boiled for 3 mins 30, never 4 mins, never ever, if you boil eggs for 4 mins, disruption of the space time continuum is imminent, you have been warned
peace
woody333333
Well-Known Member
I checked your thead........... I don't see fourteen years exp^^^^ I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but I disagree. from 14 years of experience. I have done side by side several times. The largest buds and largest yields came from the plants with larger and more lush leaves . If you have enough par from your lighting , intensity is irrelevant. As long as the leaves are getting that light, the buds will do well.. Provided all other aspects of the grow are good too. I'm all about vert growing. I don't like to prune anything.
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
lol mate, i thought the same, when looking at his plants on previous occasons after his boasting
you are welcome to check my threads, i have close to 20 years hydroponic growing experience
which doesn't mean anything really it is what it is, some folk on this forum were growing weed before i was born
peace
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
my plants know when to drop their leaves, so i dont remove damaged leaves.
I will defoliate if the leaves are dying off and hiding some nice budding sites or sometimes it makes sense to trim a few higher bigger fan leaves when there are still plenty of leaves to collect light below. In my opinion, the goal is to make sure your lighting isnt hitting the floor too much, gotta collect all the light we use, power is the most expensive aspect of indoor growing, dont waste it harvest it.
I will defoliate if the leaves are dying off and hiding some nice budding sites or sometimes it makes sense to trim a few higher bigger fan leaves when there are still plenty of leaves to collect light below. In my opinion, the goal is to make sure your lighting isnt hitting the floor too much, gotta collect all the light we use, power is the most expensive aspect of indoor growing, dont waste it harvest it.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
if you read my thread. You would of saw the posts about my place being robbed and I lost everything. I had to move and start over with borrowed lights. Just because I don't use shitty hps lights doesn't mean shit. I plan n buying a couple 860 w cmh's. It costs alot of money to move far and float your life for 4 months. . 9 years hydro experience 5 years soil experience. For t5 I'm doing dam well. Big frosty buds. I will probably hit 3 zips a plant for 8 plants. If you read the first half you would see the difference. Go ahead and hate and go back to the noob section. You only came to organic section to argue.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
you didn't read the thread at all liar.
you would be giving me props if you did read it.
SeniorFrostyKush
Active Member
Don't let these haters get to you hyroot. skunkdoc is a troll and I effectively shut him the fuck down yesterday. you can check my posts. hes an idiot who's really into correcting peoples spelling and grammar. Anyone who knows you, knows that you tear shit up in the cultivation game T5's or CFL's I bet my life your weed knocks skunkdoc on his ass and sends him home cryin'.
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
i ll rephrase that to every grower thinks they are the best lol. I got the best weed
