Plant Wilted Overnight - Recovery Suggestions Please

Kontraband

Kontraband

Member
Hello everyone, I checked my plant this morning and it was looking horrible with heavy wilting and dry leaves.

I was having some slight problems with some leaves getting rust like spots so after searching the forum I added 2 teaspoons of epsom salts and 4 drops of superthrive in my 5 gallon DWC bucket. I'm certain this was the cause of the problem.

The epsom salt and superthrive was added the the day prior to this post (approx 24 hours). I might also add that the water level was very high yesterday, way up near the stalk of the plant. I had put some extra in because I was going to be gone for the day and it drinks a lot of nute solution.

Normally this plant is very bushy, healthy and fills most of the closet space, this morning it's just very wilted as you can see.

I've changed out the reservoir with just plain ph 5.8 water.

Setup and conditions:
Plant in flower with 12/12 light schedule
250 watt HPS
DWC 5 gallon bucket with 2 air stones and great aeration.
Dyna Gro Bloom 2 teaspoons per gallon. (not sure of ppm as I discarded solution)
Temps: 80-88 F (still warm in my location and this is in enclosed closet, best I can do for now on the temps)
DIY CO2 bottle
Change reservoir every 4-5 days. Top off reservoir daily with a gallon of 5.8 PH nutrient solution due to plant usage and/or evaporation.
Circulation fan
Intake fans
Exhaust fan through carbon filter

1.JPG2.jpg

The only variables that changed and I feel could have caused this was the addition of epsom salts, the few drops of superthrive or the water level being high.
Right now it's in 5.8 PH tap water, PPM is about 250 from tap.
Any advise to hopefully recover would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a ton.
 
rarebreed619

rarebreed619

Active Member
What do the roots look like any goo? Or tan to off white? I assume water temp is around what your rm temp is?

:leaf:rare:leaf: sent using rollitup app.......
 
Kontraband

Kontraband

Member
rarebreed619 said:
What do the roots look like any goo? Or tan to off white? I assume water temp is around what your rm temp is.

:leaf:rare:leaf: sent using rollitup app.......
Click to expand...
Roots not pearly white, tan right now. No gunk or smell though. Not the healthiest right now but not horrible either.
 
supchaka

supchaka

Well-Known Member
The only thing I can think is to try topping off with plain ph'd water without added nutes and only try adding them on the res change. Ive used super thrive for a long time just cuz its so damn cheap and never had an issue. I also don't think a high water level would cause that. Personally I'd give it a fresh mix at 5.8 with maybe 75% nutes. Its a big plant still and will need its nutes. it also wouldnt hurt to add a little H2o2 to the res, like a tsp per gallon.
 
Kontraband

Kontraband

Member
supchaka said:
The only thing I can think is to try topping off with plain ph'd water without added nutes and only try adding them on the res change. Ive used super thrive for a long time just cuz its so damn cheap and never had an issue. I also don't think a high water level would cause that. Personally I'd give it a fresh mix at 5.8 with maybe 75% nutes. Its a big plant still and will need its nutes. it also wouldnt hurt to add a little H2o2 to the res, like a tsp per gallon.
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Yeah, running plain 5.8 water now. I think you're right about needing mild nutes, I think I will added it midday as I'm home all day.

I'm going to order some H2o2, right now I just have pond sludge remover. Not adding pond sludge remover now, afraid of killing it.

Thanks for your help!
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Wow, I have never seen that. And I have had main problems in hydro. Always the roots in a plant that well along, I have lost full set of 12 that size. I switched to 100% perlite. I like to keep them water deprived and then feed. This one looks like it just needs a 1/2 gal of water, if it was in perlite.

And if not water wilt, then it is bad, I think. If your water temp is above 75 degrees you could have phythium root rot beginning.

And you said the roots were not looking good. In my experience there are only two looks to roots. Good or bad.

And those 12 I lost, however, never fell over on the tops, etc, like that. They just froze in place, and stopped growing.

I mean it is sitting in water. How can it just fall over like that? Weird. Good luck.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
About H2O2.....a fool's gold, ime. Great for turn around and sterilizing.

But, if it is root rot, you are just feeding the beast. I am pretty well up on this subject now and the only thing that can save rotting roots and actually restore the root ball, is Microbes.

It is called a beneficial consortium of microbes. A stew I grew. :)

And it is amazing. The Bens will put out hormones that protect the roots, and others that push massive and quick growth of white roots throughout the ball. The alive kind.

But, to begin (cost more is all) you get into your pond immediately. Myco. say Great White brand, Orca. And the set of Bens in Aquashield.

Later you can get some Ancient Forest loam from Alaska to grow with these other 2, and bloom up a bucket of root fix, with a little molasses and a couple of airstones for a full 48 hr. Read all about the Bens, here.

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka-75.html

Good luck
 
Kontraband

Kontraband

Member
Doer said:
Wow, I have never seen that. And I have had main problems in hydro. Always the roots in a plant that well along, I have lost full set of 12 that size. I switched to 100% perlite. I like to keep them water deprived and then feed. This one looks like it just needs a 1/2 gal of water, if it was in perlite.

And if not water wilt, then it is bad, I think. If you water temp is above 75 degrees you could have phythium root rot beginning.

And you said the roots were not looking good. In my experience there are only two looks to roots. Good or bad.

And those 12 I lost, however, never fell over on the tops, etc, like that. They just froze in place, and stopped growing.

I mean it is sitting in water. How can it just fall over like that? Weird. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
Sorry to hear about your plants, and I agree about the roots. Good or bad. I need to get res temps down, it's definitely above 75 F. Perhaps my temps were a problem that finally manifested and is showing now? Have to wait and see.

Thanks again
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
I read that again, and I think you may not know the concentration of CO2, you subjected it to.

Some is good...maybe up to 1500 ppm only. But, if it got to say 2500 even for an hr? Doom.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Kontraband said:
For sure, working on getting a cooler. I'm going to start with frozen bottles till I get the funds together.
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I have a chiller, but man, I could not stand to run it. $400 for the 1/4hp minium but plenty up to 100 gals. Less power like 1/10 hp, just takes too long to pull it down when I add fresh but warm water and still cost $.

But, my utility rate for that is top tier and .32 per kwhr. Yipes! So, another $100 a month to run it on top of lights, etc.

That's the is not the only reason I went to perlite. But, it is a big one. I went through the big fun of setting up a 12 bucket hydro, but when I got it all working it was costing $500 a month....and no production.
 
grisherman

grisherman

Member
Water temps above 75 is horrible. Your oxygen levels plummet, even with airstones. I would have to say the epsom salts are now your worst enemy. Flush with 5.8 ph water for a day or two. GIve that girl some Revive. SHell be ok.

-Grish
 
Kontraband

Kontraband

Member
Thanks for everyone's help. This plant is as good as dead.

The problem was the temps and the inner section of the root ball rotting. The outside roots didn't look great but not horribly bad at first inspection. Later in the day I pulled the plant and put it in my bath tub to look carefully at it. Sure enough, when closely inspecting the roots the entire center was mushy and brown.

I ended up removing about 90 percent of the roots and covering the rest with clone powder and put in back in fresh PH correct water. I'm giving it a few days but pretty sure it's going to die.

I learned several valuable lessons and hopefully it will help other hydro noobs.
1. Oxygen starved roots can kill your plant in one day.
2. Just because the plant looks healthy doesn't mean it's ok ignore high reservoir temps. It will eventually kill your plant if you don't address the problem. I was using ice bottles but then got lazy about it because it seemed it was growing just fine.
3. When a novice hydro grower, make sure to take the time and have space to thoroughly inspect your plant often. I would only look at the roots during res changes because it was too crowded in my space.

I've written this one off, it was just bag seed and a seedling when I finished my first soil grow. I can only use this failure as a learning experience.

I've got a Jack Horror and a Nordika starting to grow well in my second hydro attempt. I definitely will not be dismissing the temps on my new grow.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Well, you learned but not the most important. That is not O2 starvation. That is Pythium infestation. You can read up on it and there is very little that can be done. It is everywhere. So sterilization is futile for this. I have, SO, been there. :)

IAC, know your enemy. It is a critter. And until recently no one was sure exactly what kind of critter it is. It is a bug, not an algae or fungi. It has explosive growth as it's survival mechanism. It begins from spores bodies you cannot see. And it is a colonizer. These spores will take the entire pond, don't I know it? And that is before you see any root damage....too late.

So, only a few things can work together to save us from ROT.

- cool, O2 saturated water. (air stones add heat)
- Microbes to fill and defend the 3 -4 micro-niches in the roots. Occupy and defend.

Need both, it seems to me.
 
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