The Freedom To Be Fat..Does Government Have The Right To "Outlaw" Unhealthy Foods?

Red1966

Well-Known Member
You can easily find studies that cut both ways. Ultimately it depends on how and what you're measuring and how you adjust your data. The economic and social costs of smoking/bad diet are undeniably greater than healthcare savings from early death. If someone had worked an extra 20 years instead of dying from lung cancer at 50, their extra productivity likely exceeds the extra healthcare costs. Let's say they incur $50,000 in costs from cancer at 50 and avoid $100,000 in costs from death; if the worker earned $30,000 a year, $600,000 of economic value is lost. And I'm connecting disease with bad diet, not obesity. You can eat a terrible, terrible diet that skyrockets health risks and not be obese.
Your figures are unrealistic. First off, you're assuming non-smokers/bad eaters never die. Smokers pay far more in tobacco taxes. You're assuming longer life span equals greater productivity. You also completely ignore that dieing before retirement means you draw no Social Security at all. You also state, falsely, that people work until they're 70.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Now your moving the goalposts to an overall economic view rather than pure medical costs 2 very different beasts
There are different conclusions on healthcare costs in different studies, depending on the variables. It probably doesn't make much sense to throw these conflicting studies around, so instead I move to the economic view.

Pulling numbers out of your arse isn't a strong argument either
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=0
The way the groups are diced up in this study makes my point about how you can reach any conclusion. My thesis is that less bad behavior will lead to less disease and lower costs, not that avoiding obesity and smoking will do the trick.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
My question is: what constitutes "bad foods", and who will adjudicate that? This book advances the thesis that the "good/bad food" issue is political. I am retooling my diet based on it.

It is problematic. There should be overwhelming scientific evidence, which exists in some cases but not in others.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
There are different conclusions on healthcare costs in different studies, depending on the variables. It probably doesn't make much sense to throw these conflicting studies around, so instead I move to the economic view.
I think if your going to keep referring to these "conflicting studies" then common courtesy would suggest you post them here......

Otherwise your arguing by assertion alongside moving goal posts

The way the groups are diced up in this study makes my point about how you can reach any conclusion. My thesis is that less bad behavior will lead to less disease and lower costs, not that avoiding obesity and smoking will do the trick.
Bad behaviour? Now that's a vague metric to go on

Again old age itself is a major factor in diseases. the longer you live the more care needed per person. those costs are quantifiable

I do not see how "good behaviour" will change those basics
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Your figures are unrealistic. First off, you're assuming smokers/bad eaters never die. Smokers pay far more in tobacco taxes.
I assumed they did die. If you mean smokers pay more in tobacco taxes than they consume in healthcare costs, I doubt it. It depends on how long they pay, how much they smoke, and how big the cost is.

You're assuming longer life span equals greater productivity.
The peak earning years are typically the last ones. Retirement and death dates have to be compared.

You also completely ignore that dieing before retirement means you draw no Social Security at all.
The amount withdrawn by a healthy person isn't going to exceed the lost economic value in my hypothetical.

You also state, falsely, that people work until they're 70.
I don't think anyone in my generation is expecting to retire before 70. In the coming decades the age is going to creep up from where it is today.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
no I don't think so. Should this apply to chemicals that are proven unsafe like transfats?
I can buy bleach at nearly any store, drinking it will kill me or you. I don't think you can "legislate" common sense into being. I'm not in favor of laws that prohibit people from putting their hand on a hot stove either.
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
I can buy bleach at nearly any store, drinking it will kill me or you. I don't think you can "legislate" common sense into being. I'm not in favor of laws that prohibit people from putting their hand on a hot stove either.
I'm talking about private corporations using harmful chemicals in food products.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
You should make your own choices. But if you aren't informed how do you know whether they are good or not?

Maybe some people ARE informed, they just like to eat donuts or some other "bad" food. I for one don't eat at Wendy's, not because Uncle Buck might have shit on the floor, I'm just not fond of their food, but if you or somebody else wants to eat there, it's none of my business. Becoming informed is a good thing, what do you propose?
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
I can buy bleach at nearly any store, drinking it will kill me or you. I don't think you can "legislate" common sense into being. I'm not in favor of laws that prohibit people from putting their hand on a hot stove either.
the difference being, bleach is not baked, fried, broiled, barbequed into foods..
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Maybe some people ARE informed, they just like to eat donuts or some other "bad" food. I for one don't eat at Wendy's, not because Uncle Buck might have shit on the floor, I'm just not fond of their food, but if you or somebody else wants to eat there, it's none of my business. Becoming informed is a good thing, what do you propose?
We used to have a Wendy"s in are town, but they didn't get enough business and failed..Now it is a Starbucks...Buck probably helped them fail with the rumors of human shit on the floor from the city...
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
the difference being, bleach is not baked, fried, broiled, barbequed into foods..

I'm not in favor of people drinking bleach or eating poor quality food. I'm in favor of people having the ability to make choices and being responsible for the benefits and the consequences. This is a pot site remember? Some people want to legislatively prevent you from making
your consumption choices.

The consumer that has been defrauded should always have the choice of seeking damages.

So would you make it illegal to drink bleach?
 
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