If government provides "services" that are so good, why do they have to use force ?

[cannabineer]

the walmart contracts which require suppliers to lower their invoice per unit every year are a new invention.

walmart is using it's power in the retail market to exert pressure on the wholesale market for their own profit, at the expense of the very hands which feed them, their suppliers.

if walmart wanted to carry The Dr.'s Organic California Grown Tomatoes on their shelves, i would not deal with them, since i would be required to drop my wholesale prices constantly until i was unable to operate at a profit.

plus i like spending my sundays (in season) at the farmer's market

Doesn't sound like an enforcible contract to me. Any contract lawyer worth his hydrochloride salt would nix the down-ratchet andor the penalties associated therewith ... or advise his client simply not to enter into contract. The Wart may be the 8000-pound gorilla but still must provide tenable contracts.

 

[Hazydat620]

ok, so you were in construction...

did you manufacture your own nails hammers, screwdrivers and other tools?

did you construct the beams and trusses in your own foundry and schlep them to the job site on your own burro drawn wagon?

did you draw the wire for the electrical, cast the pipes for the plumbing, and burn the lime for the concrete yourself?

NO.

you bought all that shit from somebody else, who ALSO did not produce it, but was instead a distributor of the produce of many different hands.

the distributor for your materials and tools was a MERCHANT who purchased the surplus product of other men's labours, moved it to his central location and stored it for sale later to those who might need it.

his trade is the warehouseman and merchant, and he must make enough money to keep clothes on his own back and a roof over his own head too. his contribution to the system is as the middleman, which seems to irk you.

if you had to schlep from lumber mill to cement factory to foundry to tool and die maker, to wire spooler, to pipe caster, to paint mixer.... before too long you would come up with the brilliant idea to buy MORE than you needed and sell the excess to other tradesmen in your field who didnt feel like schlepping all that way for every job, and thus you would discover a need, fill that need and become the FIRST MERCHANT IN EXISTENCE!

thanks a lot asshole! now we have middlemen again!! gahh!! why must you keep doing this!

it's all your fault. this is why we cant have nice things!

even if you could "click and ship" EVERYTHING, FedEX is also a middleman. those cockbags!! GRRRR!!

Rabble Rabble Rabble!

you must not know how it works in the trades, I was steel stud framing. Yes I would order supplies directly from the manufacturer, if the order was big enough they even deliver for free.

 

[Hazydat620]

Why do you think I need to chill? Have I sounded hostile towards you or the Dr.? I haven't meant too, I think the Dr. has got a little riled up though. I don't like people treating me like some bum, I haven't been without a job since 15 and have been paying taxes since then.

 

[NLXSK1]

you must not know how it works in the trades, I was steel stud framing. Yes I would order supplies directly from the manufacturer, if the order was big enough they even deliver for free.

Yes, because you were in the business and did a lot of trade. I get a service discount at the store I buy from because I am in the industry and drop a lot of cash. I am not sure what you are getting at...

The reason for stores is so someone does not have to go to 100 different manufacturers to get the supplies to buy a house.

With the internet there will be much more direct marketing from manufacturer to client but for convenience there will still be middle men in many cases.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Why do you think I'm mad at the grower? What happens when the market taps out at quality and the market is flooded with quality product and your merchant can't sell your product to make a profit because of his overhead? Does he buy more to get it at cost? That really doesn't sound like a solution just delaying the inevitable. So then what happens to you when the music stop's for that merchant? you lose everything you thought you had?

thats the merchant's risk, thats why he makes a profit on his capital investment in wholesale goods, and if he cant shift the goods, he can sell them to a shipper to sell them in another market where the prices are sufficient to offset the increased costs in shipping.

you sure SOUND like youre mad at the grower, since you blame them for the government programs which are designed to stabilize supply, as well as prices (thats the subsidy/allotment system) so you dont go hungry, and he doesnt lose his shirt.

you mischaracterized subsidies and allotments as "paying farmers to not grow crops" when in fact this is NOT what happens.

many crops require specialized equipment, such as combines, which are not easily reconfigured to harvest wheat, corn, soya and potatoes, further the exemplar crop (wheat) is a MULTISEASON crop, with some varieties planted for harvest in spring, some in summer, some in autumn, and some in winter. that bag of "all purpose" flour on the grocer's shelves does not contain "wheat" but rather, a blend of different wheats to give the desired consistency to your cakes, pastries, breads or pasta.

each different finished wheat product requires a different blend for the desired results, the plain vanilla "all purpose" flour that gam gam used, is a fair balance of all the components of flour, suitable for use in many (but definitely not ALL) applications.

wheat farming is not as simple as you believe, just as construction is not just nailing a few boards together to make a shanty.

 

[Hazydat620]

the walmart contracts which require suppliers to lower their invoice per unit every year are a new invention.

walmart is using it's power in the retail market to exert pressure on the wholesale market for their own profit, at the expense of the very hands which feed them, their suppliers.

if walmart wanted to carry The Dr.'s Organic California Grown Tomatoes on their shelves, i would not deal with them, since i would be required to drop my wholesale prices constantly until i was unable to operate at a profit.

plus i like spending my sundays (in season) at the farmer's market

If you like going to the farmers market, why are you so for big business? honestly?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Doesn't sound like an enforcible contract to me. Any contract lawyer worth his hydrochloride salt would nix the down-ratchet andor the penalties associated therewith ... or advise his client simply not to enter into contract. The Wart may be the 8000-pound gorilla but still must provide tenable contracts.

thats right it doesnt sound like the way things ought to work, but suppliers are told either they submit, or their shit will be replaced on the wal-mart shelves with the products from their more compliant competitors.

John Deere for example, doesnt supply wal-mart with lawn tractors and mowers any more, for that very reason, much like many other manufacturers and suppliers.

remember when wal-mart was so proud that all their shit was made in the USA? sam walton is rolling over in his grave, but the board and the investors are happy with their profits.

 

[Dr Kynes]

you must not know how it works in the trades, I was steel stud framing. Yes I would order supplies directly from the manufacturer, if the order was big enough they even deliver for free.

so you were a specialist, not a GC, thus you too were a MIDDLEMAN, hired by the contractor to do one job. that it was on-site doesnt change the nature of your specialized niche in the Great Material Continuum of commerce.

 

[Hazydat620]

thats the merchant's risk, thats why he makes a profit on his capital investment in wholesale goods, and if he cant shift the goods, he can sell them to a shipper to sell them in another market where the prices are sufficient to offset the increased costs in shipping.

you sure SOUND like youre mad at the grower, since you blame them for the government programs which are designed to stabilize supply, as well as prices (thats the subsidy/allotment system) so you dont go hungry, and he doesnt lose his shirt.

you mischaracterized subsidies and allotments as "paying farmers to not grow crops" when in fact this is NOT what happens.

many crops require specialized equipment, such as combines, which are not easily reconfigured to harvest wheat, corn, soya and potatoes, further the exemplar crop (wheat) is a MULTISEASON crop, with some varieties planted for harvest in spring, some in summer, some in autumn, and some in winter. that bag of "all purpose" flour on the grocer's shelves does not contain "wheat" but rather, a blend of different wheats to give the desired consistency to your cakes, pastries, breads or pasta.

each different finished wheat product requires a different blend for the desired results, the plain vanilla "all purpose" flour that gam gam used, is a fair balance of all the components of flour, suitable for use in many (but definitely not ALL) applications.

wheat farming is not as simple as you believe, just as construction is not just nailing a few boards together to make a shanty.

I don't blame the farmer for the programs, I blame the merchants for creating a system that requires them. I understand farming is not easy, and its even harder to get into the business, especially young because of the start up cost's. Your pretty smart what are you doing hanging around a weed forum, I let you know what I specialize in, what do you do?

 

[Dr Kynes]

If you like going to the farmers market, why are you so for big business? honestly?

i am not for "big business" i am for Business!

commerce is sacred to me, as a capitalist, i believe government's hand should be on the tiller, LIGHTLY, guiding the ship of commerce to bountiful shores, not micromanaging Isaac at the bar on the Lido Deck while our ship crashes on the reef.

but i call dibs on Charo, she is the best choice in Personal Flotation Devices.

 

[cannabineer]

thats right it doesnt sound like the way things ought to work, but suppliers are told either they submit, or their shit will be replaced on the wal-mart shelves with the products from their more compliant competitors.

John Deere for example, doesnt supply wal-mart with lawn tractors and mowers any more, for that very reason, much like many other manufacturers and suppliers.

remember when wal-mart was so proud that all their shit was made in the USA? sam walton is rolling over in his grave, but the board and the investors are happy with their profits.

Honestly no. They (and harbor Freight) are locally known as the Chinese Chamber of Commerce now.

Charo

Ai ai aiii, she used to be hot. Now that face looks like sesenta kilometros de camino malo.

 

[Hazydat620]

so you were a specialist, not a GC, thus you too were a MIDDLEMAN, hired by the contractor to do one job. that it was on-site doesnt change the nature of your specialized niche in the Great Material Continuum of commerce.

I think you have that backwards, The GC is the middle man. What would happen if all the specialist went away. what would that GC do, he can't do it himself thus he hired someone to do it. What happens when I decide to cut them out all together go directly to the person who wanted it built?

 

[Dr Kynes]

I don't blame the farmer for the programs, I blame the merchants for creating a system that requires them. I understand farming is not easy, and its even harder to get into the business, especially young because of the start up cost's. Your pretty smart what are you doing hanging around a weed forum, I let you know what I specialize in, what do you do?

the merchants didnt require the system, these supply issues have been going on since the time of Ur of the Chaldees.

when too much of one crop is grown, prices fall, so less is grown next season wich results in a shortage, this is why there were state granaries (the first subsidy) which paid premium prices for wheat in good years and doled it out at reasonable prices in lean years.

all crops are not as easily stored for long terms like wheat, which is part of why wheat is the topic of discussion, it is a fine exemplar of a crop which is highly susceptible to market price fluctuations, can be readily exported when there is a surplus, and imported during a shortage, but we havent even gotten to shipment of agricultural commodities yet.

we are still hashing out local self-stustainability in our hypothetical village market.

an THIS is my avocation right here. farming.

i get ~30% of my annual income selling my produce at the local farmer's market, with the balance coming from working in a retail shop, solely to bring in cash.

 

[Hazydat620]

i am not for "big business" i am for Business!

commerce is sacred to me, as a capitalist, i believe government's hand should be on the tiller, LIGHTLY, guiding the ship of commerce to bountiful shores, not micromanaging Isaac at the bar on the Lido Deck while our ship crashes on the reef.

but i call dibs on Charo, she is the best choice in Personal Flotation Devices.

I'm for business also, but how big a business is where we disagree I guess. The only way I see they got there was by unethical ways. If everyone had a fair chance there wouldn't be such a gap in wealth classes.

 

[UncleBuck]

and yet, O-Care is the worst of both worlds, huge government bureaucracy leading huge corporate bureaucracy around by the nose, or is it the other way around?

the mandate, penaltax and interference with contracts is what sticks in my craw.

if the O-man really gave a squirt of piss about "healthcare", he would have rolled medicare/medicaid, and various other government programs into one, and created a government insurance plan which follows his rules (no pre-existing condition clause, no managed care, no dumping sick people, children stay on parents plan till 26, etc...) with no profit motive. the expenses of the plan could totalled up at the end of every fiscal year and the bill could be apportioned out equally (or scaled to income) among all those who are members of the government insurance program, and let the people choose which idea is best.

but he never even proposed that.

he couldn't even get the public option, so you trotting out silly pipe dreams months later is pretty retarded, pointless, and smacks of partisan hack.

edit: offer to compare administrative costs between countries with socialized medicine and the united states is still open, but i know that's the last thing a righty retard like yourself would want to do. because socialized medicine produces better outcomes, not free market.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I think you have that backwards, The GC is the middle man. What would happen if all the specialist went away. what would that GC do, he can't do it himself thus he hired someone to do it. What happens when I decide to cut them out all together go directly to the person who wanted it built?

the building buyer would have to hire you, to middleman his exchange with the foundry (beams dont put themselves up...) while currently the GC is the buyer of your services.

im surprised the GC lets you source the materials, as this is usually his job, to ensure quality, and ensure the work is completed on-time and on-budget (HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! ohh i couldnt even finish that line with a straight face!~)

when you finestone the point hard enough EVERYBODY is a middle man in somebody's book.

even the building's eventual owner is still a middleman, with his tenants or his customers picking up the tab for the building's construction through their rent or by purchasing his products.

 

[NLXSK1]

I'm for business also, but how big a business is where we disagree I guess. The only way I see they got there was by unethical ways. If everyone had a fair chance there wouldn't be such a gap in wealth classes.

Oh bullshit...

Not everyone wants to work that hard or hard at all...

Most people never want to start or run a business and that is where the real money is made.

Most people prefer jobs with relatively secure paychecks, working hours, etc.

And those people get paid competitive wages in society from below minimum wage to hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[UncleBuck]

Oh bullshit...

Not everyone wants to work that hard or hard at all...

Most people never want to start or run a business and that is where the real money is made.

Most people prefer jobs with relatively secure paychecks, working hours, etc.

And those people get paid competitive wages in society from below minimum wage to hundreds of millions of dollars.

the online persona you attempt to portray is pathetic. did you not notice that your last few comments have just been left to rot?

no one buys your online persona. you are a joke.

 

[NLXSK1]

the online persona you attempt to portray is pathetic. did you not notice that your last few comments have just been left to rot?

no one buys your online persona. you are a joke.

You dont argue the merit of topics, all you do is attack posters for their perceived or made up faults... It gets really boring bucky. Especially after I have seen pics of you and your wife... Makes me LOL just thinking about them...

I have long ago given up having a serious discussion with you, you do not seem capable of it.

Rage on cheesybeard!!

 

[UncleBuck]

You dont argue the merit of topics, all you do is attack posters for their perceived or made up faults... It gets really boring bucky. Especially after I have seen pics of you and your wife... Makes me LOL just thinking about them...

I have long ago given up having a serious discussion with you, you do not seem capable of it.

Rage on cheesybeard!!

what topic have you brought up?

that old, false romney talking point that people are just jealous and envious?

that is not a topic, that is your misunderstanding of how the world works.

http://www.businessinsider.com/romney-envy-ows-2012-1

you are STILL repeating romney talking points a year later.

also, racist.

All a candidate has to do is be half black for 90% of the African American voter turnout to vote for them...