If government provides "services" that are so good, why do they have to use force ?

[ginjawarrior]

Normally I wouldn't be rude, but let's remember that you are the initiator of any douche baggery as far as any conversations we've had.

I'm bitching because of the wordsmithing and euphemism using that goes on. Government doesn't and can't provide a "service" if the so-called customer is a captive.

Your not a fucking captive

[/THREAD]

 

[Rob Roy]

But, the straw dog is this idea of a non-COERCIVE govt. You act like there is something REAL for REAL ideas to "spring from>" But, that has never existed. So, there is no there, there. Ideas try to jack reality and say there is another, more superior form of Tribe.

No. A Fantasy.

We need govt to coerce, the likes of you, for our protection. I am quite willing to take part in that Necessity.

So when you read all those comic books, do you wear a cape and pretend you can fly?

What is a fantasy is that thru coercion comes peace and opportunity for prosperity. Of course people have the right to defend themselves, but nobody has the right to start in with others. Geez, you're not one of those bad super heroes are you? Lemme guess you're that Shredder guy from the ninja turtles?

 

[Doer]

Dr. Dodge-o. He pinned the squirmy, with the Truth.

 

[NoDrama]

Renounce it then you fuckwit what on earth do you think I meant when I said "don't go back"

Exactly what you meant. You seem to think that as long as you leave the country and NEVER go back that you won't have to pay any taxes.
I already proved that premise wrong and now you are all hurt about it.
Spoil sport.

Cry to mommy cuz I don't care.

 

[schuylaar]

Garnish all your wages, letting you have NONE.

you don't really think that moving to another country absolves you of paying taxes to the USA do you? Not only will you hyave to pay the taxes of the country you are in, but ON TOP OF THAT you have to pay all your USA taxes too.

Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States

Excerpted:

you are wrong..the irs cannot garnish 100% of your wages.

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-011-005.html

 

[NoDrama]

you are wrong..the irs cannot garnish 100% of your wages.

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-011-005.html

You are right. So what? You still have to pay taxes just as if you lived in the USA ON TOP OF any taxes you have to pay to the country you live in.

 

[see4]

I think Bush is a criminal. I believe all things that spring from COERCIVE government are suspect , just like if you steal my neighbors purse, you don't become a "good guy" if from those proceeds you buy me a beer. I think you can't answer my questions and are trying to change the subject.

If there ever was any truth to the American way, it was supposed to be that individuals have the right of self determination, but not the right of intervention into others lives via the tyranny of the majority. You're stumbling around with your rationalizations, smoke some dope and chill, oh wait, your government won't let you.

Ok bucko, I will play your game for a moment. Please explicitly state your premise and we shall go from there. Please use your own words and try not pull a Rand Paul.

Remember we need to stay on topic. You seem to only ramble and tell others they are off topic. I have talked down your point once, I will do it again. Now, clearly state your argument and I will rebut.

 

[Rob Roy]

Your not a fucking captive

[/THREAD]

I think you meant, "you're". If an entity that has a monopoly on the use of force and is willing to use it against otherwise peaceful people what would you call it?

 

[see4]

I think you meant, "you're". If an entity that has a monopoly on the use of force and is willing to use it against otherwise peaceful people what would you call it?

You are either intentionally missing the point or are too fucking stupid to see it.

You FEEL that the government is forcing this upon you because you simply don't like anything the government has to offer you. You are only thinking of, and for, yourself. Which is fine, you have the right to do so. But us adults and compassionate individuals feel that parts of the government actually are there to do us good, and therefore do not FEEL it is being forced upon us.

Your argument is subjective, therefore moot.

 

[Rob Roy]

Ok bucko, I will play your game for a moment. Please explicitly state your premise and we shall go from there. Please use your own words and try not pull a Rand Paul.

Remember we need to stay on topic. You seem to only ramble and tell others they are off topic. I have talked down your point once, I will do it again. Now, clearly state your argument and I will rebut.

You talked down my point? Was that when you told me that I was a Bush fan? Or when you flopped on your Walmart barking?

Okay, here's my argument. I own myself and you own yourself, neither of us own another without their consent. IF we attempt to do this we are in some way committing an injustice and a harm. Assholes do that, good people don't. Granting government exceptions for bad behavior we would object to if a "normal person" did it is nonsensical. Swing away slugger.

 

[see4]

You talked down my point? Was that when you told me that I was a Bush fan? Or when you flopped on your Walmart barking?

Okay, here's my argument. I own myself and you own yourself, neither of us own another without their consent. IF we attempt to do this we are in some way committing an injustice and a harm. Assholes do that, good people don't. Granting government exceptions for bad behavior we would object to if a "normal person" did it is nonsensical. Swing away slugger.

Please define "own" when you reference yourself.

Taking out the "ownership" part of the equation for now, I would agree at an individual level, you have no right to force me to do something, whether it is for good or for bad, just as I do not have that right to do unto you. However, government is here to help those who need it. Without government we would be completely lawless, and you would likely be dead. So taking that into consideration, I think there is an extreme that governments should not take, like marshal law, dictatorships or social communism. None of these things are happening and nowhere near close to happening during your lifetime.

So, that being said, I suppose your argument is true, however, I could also say that if aliens were to visit we would all die, therefore we should stop using electricity across the entire planet and stop using anything that produces radio frequencies as to not be heard. In other words, your argument, rather statement is moot and subjective.

 

[Rob Roy]

You are either intentionally missing the point or are too fucking stupid to see it.

You FEEL that the government is forcing this upon you because you simply don't like anything the government has to offer you. You are only thinking of, and for, yourself. Which is fine, you have the right to do so. But us adults and compassionate individuals feel that parts of the government actually are there to do us good, and therefore do not FEEL it is being forced upon us.

Your argument is subjective, therefore moot.

Is this the part where you tell me I'm a Bush fan again ?

If you "feeeeel" the government is doing you good, that's great. People should have the freedom to associate and to disassociate without any harm to them.

Are you a graduate of Government Word Smithing School? Compassion does not come from force. Also, you use the term "offer" incorrectly. If you came to my house and I offered you a beer, you could accept it or say no thanks couldn't you? You do own your body, except for when the government "offers" to put you in jail for a plant or refusing one of their other erm "offers". It would help you immensely if you understood the meanings of words and applied them equally to "normal people" and to the coercive government. Granting them an automatic pass to redefine words is part of your problem, Mr. Compassionate.

 

[Rob Roy]

Please define "own" when you reference yourself.

Taking out the "ownership" part of the equation for now, I would agree at an individual level, you have no right to force me to do something, whether it is for good or for bad, just as I do not have that right to do unto you. However, government is here to help those who need it. Without government we would be completely lawless, and you would likely be dead. So taking that into consideration, I think there is an extreme that governments should not take, like marshal law, dictatorships or social communism. None of these things are happening and nowhere near close to happening during your lifetime.

So, that being said, I suppose your argument is true, however, I could also say that if aliens were to visit we would all die, therefore we should stop using electricity across the entire planet and stop using anything that produces radio frequencies as to not be heard. In other words, your argument, rather statement is moot and subjective.

I don't have a problem with people engaging in voluntary associations or noncoercive governments. Oh shit hang on, there's a noise.... I think there's an alien at my door...nope... it was the cat. Whew that was a close one.

With coercive government (the kind that most frequently exists today) the first "law" is obey them or die. With coercive government, large scale war is enabled and so is prohibition and a host of other senseless things. So tell me again why coercion as the corner stone of an organization is good? Yeah, thought so.

 

[see4]

Is this the part where you tell me I'm a Bush fan again ?

If you "feeeeel" the government is doing you good, that's great. People should have the freedom to associate and to disassociate without any harm to them.

Are you a graduate of Government Word Smithing School? Compassion does not come from force. Also, you use the term "offer" incorrectly. If you came to my house and I offered you a beer, you could accept it or say no thanks couldn't you? You do own your body, except for when the government "offers" to put you in jail for a plant or refusing one of their other erm "offers". It would help you immensely if you understood the meanings of words and applied them equally to "normal people" and to the coercive government. Granting them an automatic pass to redefine words is part of your problem, Mr. Compassionate.

Hmm, I suspect we are arguing sort of the same thing. But I think you are coming at from a completely different angle than I am.

I agree that government should not go overboard and speaking specifically to marijuana and any drug for that matter, I am a firm believer that the government should end the war on drugs and instead use much of the money to fund reach out programs and help those in need of rehabilitation.

But I think you are taking things to the utmost extreme, and in this I can't take you seriously. When come down from your coke high, I might be able to engage but right now you are being obtuse.

 

[see4]

I don't have a problem with people engaging in voluntary associations or noncoercive governments. Oh shit hang on, there's a noise.... I think there's an alien at my door...nope... it was the cat. Whew that was a close one.

With coercive government (the kind that most frequently exists today) the first "law" is obey them or die. With coercive government, large scale war is enabled and so is prohibition and a host of other senseless things. So tell me again why coercion as the corner stone of an organization is good? Yeah, thought so.

What the fuck are you going on about dude. Seriously, do you even believe the shit you are saying right now? Seriously?

Please define coercive government.
Please define large scale war.
What do you mean when you say coercion as the cornerstone of an organization?

 

[Doer]

You are right. So what? You still have to pay taxes just as if you lived in the USA ON TOP OF any taxes you have to pay to the country you live in.

Here is the deal. If I am in Belize, and I have been, and I know the banking laws, have accounts there now, etc; the USA can kiss my light tan ass, if they think they can collect a dime of my money, that I don't part with voluntarily.

There are only a few counties have not signed these banking treaties with the USA. Find one. Then the story is very different.

 

[Doer]

What the fuck are you going on about dude. Seriously, do you even believe the shit you are saying right now? Seriously?

Please define coercive government.
Please define large scale war.
What do you mean when you say coercion as the cornerstone of an organization?

It is an organized delusion. It is not even that high order, not but patchwork and not dependable. In other words, you got him. He has no answers.

I can go on for a page about how coercion, only, exists. No such thing as non-coercion on the scale he means. And there is no such as strictly volunteer associations beyond, say, a quilting club or a auto club.

And that club will have hierarchy and a Queen Bee. You shit wrong and you are shunned.... And since we don't know self, we are the most kicked around and coerced mentally, ourselves with FEAR.

So, we can see what his FEAR is. He cannot face REAL. So, he retreats into the mental theories of the young warlord. The Justifications of Alexander.

 

[NoDrama]

Here is the deal. If I am in Belize, and I have been, and I know the banking laws, have accounts there now, etc; the USA can kiss my light tan ass, if they think they can collect a dime of my money, that I don't part with voluntarily.

There are only a few counties have not signed these banking treaties with the USA. Find one. Then the story is very different.

You still have the legal requirement of paying those taxes, moving to Belize doesn't absolve you of that legal duty.

 

[Doer]

You still have the legal requirement of paying those taxes, moving to Belize doesn't absolve you of that legal duty.

Legal duty? Not in Belize. You are shielded from that legal duty by their laws.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Only if you want to reserve a seat back in the all you can eat buffet called the USA

That's if you want to save a seat in the USA

Exactly what you meant. You seem to think that as long as you leave the country and NEVER go back that you won't have to pay any taxes.

Check your reading compensation halfway

Keeping your citizenship is saving yourself a seat

I already proved that premise wrong

No fuckwit, You created a straw man that was never my premise