Blue elephant, is it true??
- Thread starter waterdawg
- Start date
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I haven't grown Jean Guy but I know guys who have. I can ask, what questions do you have? I assume you have the clone? If you have seeds their advice is likely not to be helpful as a Jean Guy S1 will be almost certain to have extreme variability.
Unequalibrium
Active Member
Dude, s1's are a spitting image of the parent. They will be almost certain to have barely any variety.
Upstate2626
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^ You sure about that buddy? lol.
KushLyle
Member
The topic about S1 marijuana is quite technical and really needs some explanation in layman's term. I have an idea on how this "selfing" happens and it is basically caused by a female pollen that produces mostly female seeds. The issue whether the S1 will be like clones of the mother is debatable at best and needs expert explanation. Breeders please help 
Thecouchlock
Well-Known Member
That is the truth
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
You have no idea what you're talking about. Don't give advice when you don't know please. Most S1's are basically F2's - aka the most variable of crosses. Unless it's an IBL S1's will have a lot of variability. Jean Guy is a rare phenotype in a polyhybrid. It will not be very stable. Some plants will be like the mother, unlikely to be identical unless you hit the jackpot (seriously, you're more likely to win Powerball).
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind there are 22,000 pairs of these in a marijuana plant.The topic about S1 marijuana is quite technical and really needs some explanation in layman's term. I have an idea on how this "selfing" happens and it is basically caused by a female pollen that produces mostly female seeds. The issue whether the S1 will be like clones of the mother is debatable at best and needs expert explanation. Breeders please help
If all parents are XX then all offspring will be XX.
But if the parents are Xx (and this is usually the case) then the cross will put out:
X x
X XX Xx
x Xx xx
In other words a 25% XX, 50% Xx and 25% xx on average. 22 thousand times over.
But the plant is made up of genetics from it's parents each representing half an allele.
Because each half is different when the plant is recombined into itself it will be a mix mash of those two halves represented in the off spring. If the two halves were the same (this is the case with an IBL - or at least mostly similar, an F1 is not the same on both sides and Jean Guy comes from an F1/polyhybrid) the offspring from an S1 would be highly uniform. Most plants people grow are not though. The best you can hope for is stability in certain traits with most S1's and even then it's usually a crap shoot.
Adrosmokin
Well-Known Member
...lol!...
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Ok getting way off topic lol but if it is an s1 does that not mean that some how the female self polinated (like possibly colloidial silver) and would the seeds not be identical to the mother but with the ability to show the original pheno's that the mother could have shown lol rambling lol. Just tryuing to get my head around this!
Jogro
Well-Known Member
No.
This is a common misconception promulgated by se-ed-sellers who want you to believe this.
If you want a "spitting image" of the parent, you have to take a clone of the parent. That's why "clone only" plants exist.
If it were possible to replicate "clone only" strains just by selfing them, there would be no such thing as "clone only" strains.
As already mentioned above by OGevilgenius, S1s are just a sexual cross of a plant with itself. Depending on how hybridized the parent is, S1s will typically throw off a fairly WIDE variety of phenos, the overwhelming majority of which will NOT be as good as the parent.
At best, a good S1 will have many of the good characteristics of the parent, including scent/flavor and potency, but that's about the most you can realistically expect from something like this. Even then you may have to go through a significant number of individual S1 plants to find one like that.
Jogro
Well-Known Member
An S1 is a sexual cross of a plant with itself. It could occur with a natural "hermie" plant fertilizing itself, or it could occur when a breeder deliberately "reverses" a plant with a chemical agent such as colloidal silver, to force male flower creation. This can also be done with pollen from a reversed "clone"; since the genetics of a clone are identical to the parent, reversed clone x parent is genetically the same as reversed parent x parent.
Since S1 plants are a sexual cross, the offspring will show all the same potential variability of any other sexual cross.
How variable the S1 plants are will depend on the genetic diversity (aka "stability") of the parent. If the mother is inbred and stable, then a sexual cross of the plant and itself will throw off relatively uniform S1 plants. But if the parent is an unstable hybrid (which, in practice, virtually every "clone only" is), then the S1 offspring may potentially throw off a wild mish-mash of traits, derived from the genetic material from the parents parents!
Basically, the S1 reshuffles the genetic "dice" and then creates the full "bell curve" spectrum of possible offspring.
Since clone only plants represent very rare select (eg "one in a million") phenos, its just unreasonable to expect that you're going to find exact replicas of most of them in S1s. Again, realistically, if you can find something with the characteristic flavor and potency of a "clone only" from only a few S1s, then you're doing really well.
If you want to find something with the potency, yield, flowering time, flavor, scent, and plant structure, that may be possible, but you may have to go through dozens, hundreds, or even potentially thousands of S1s to do that!
^ I dont want to quote all that and don't know how to microquote...
Aren't there even slight variations in clones as well?
I don't use clones, never have made a clone (I say that, but I actually have my first 4 clones going right now with one rooted), or grown a clone personally.
But even with the exact same genetics, you still would end up with variables during the life that will make differences in the end.
Take two twins and raise them in two seperate environments and while they will still resemble each other, there will be notable and marked differences.
Aren't there even slight variations in clones as well?
I don't use clones, never have made a clone (I say that, but I actually have my first 4 clones going right now with one rooted), or grown a clone personally.
But even with the exact same genetics, you still would end up with variables during the life that will make differences in the end.
Take two twins and raise them in two seperate environments and while they will still resemble each other, there will be notable and marked differences.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there are epigenetic responses to environment in clones. So they can be phenotypically different, but they are still the same genotype.
rory420420
Well-Known Member
Wow...I thought I was the only one paying attention in 9th grade biology..lol...og,the xx demonstration was an actual question in class,and I remember that!! And it was 22 years ago!!lol