So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

[Murfy]

sand isn't important-

fattie nailed it. the whiter the better. for ultra fast results use distilled water and schultz rooting powder.

**CREDIT TO STUMPJUMPER**

 

[Rrog]

I miss Stumpjumper

 

[Murfy]

me too-

smart dood, pro gardener. sorry for the non organic plug. right now every walmart has schultz rooting powder on clearance for 2 bucks.

for a natural solution, find a tree that grows prolific suckers. willow is a good example of this. all those suckers, are full of rooting hormones(cytokines?). apple works too.
prune an amount of the suckers, and cut them into one inch pieces with the cedar snips. place snipped suckers into bowl and cover with water. cover bowl and let soak for 24-48 hours. strain and use for soaking cuts. this works about as well as clonex, so if you are used to that rate switch to willow tea and sa ve $$.

schultz smokes clonex.

EDIT: the sand method requires no hormone stimulant, and works consistently on its own, albeit a little longer.(7 -14 days)

 

[abe supercro]

Abe- How's the soil?

Hey Rrog- the soil is ok.
So this fall I rush mixed a batch of everything I had around. I know for sure I have to educate myself more, am lacking neem cake, need to start cooking sooner and have to find better econo suppliers for amendments.

I didn't use tarps or some huge corner of my yard to blend... neatly lined up ten 25 gallon bins (nothing is really quantified properly either/ -abe "free-pour" broham) and commenced with evenly allocating some old bags of roots and fox farm. plus orange label pro-mix to begin my base. plenty of bags of wiggle worm castings and other fancy labeled over priced bags of general organics ancient forest (ha, that bag literally contains many rocks in it) and marine green by aurora.

I cleaned off a shelf of those darn ($) dr. earth amends, like alfalfa, kelp, fish meal, fish bone meal. also azomite and glauconite in addition to every half-empty bag of mycos... azos mostly. oh also a little blood, additional bone and then bat shit for good measure. BT too! the best new addition in there is crab shell meal. I've been told I need to add ample Lyme but I'm kinda skittish about that one. One problem is that I don't let things 'cook' for long enough (planing) and usually need to get plants in soil. while I generously add pro-mix to the top horizon of the container to avoid burning upon transplant, I'm concerned a lot of lyme may make mix too hot, early on, and/or drive ph too low.

As soon as the first sign of snow flurries i brought those bins in from the cold. wouldn't some of the microbes diminish as well as slow the breaking down of materials? Is neem cake available this time of year? Isn't it a pulpy byproduct of the after harvest neem seeds? It'd be nice to find a supplier only a few states away. shipping on lg. bags adds up.

you can see my program may be lacking some, is overpriced and still needs work. ...finally gettin back to work and expect to make positive strides this year, 2014, w ma dirt. thanks for any feedback and thanks for asking Rrog.

 

[Rrog]

Cool Abe. I'm totally with you on a MI based brother to supply soil amendments cheap. Like a co-op.

 

[HGK420]

Hey Rrog- the soil is ok.
So this fall I rush mixed a batch of everything I had around. I know for sure I have to educate myself more, am lacking neem cake, need to start cooking sooner and have to find better econo suppliers for amendments.

I didn't use tarps or some huge corner of my yard to blend... neatly lined up ten 25 gallon bins (nothing is really quantified properly either/ -abe "free-pour" broham) and commenced with evenly allocating some old bags of roots and fox farm. plus orange label pro-mix to begin my base. plenty of bags of wiggle worm castings and other fancy labeled over priced bags of general organics ancient forest (ha, that bag literally contains many rocks in it) and marine green by aurora.

I cleaned off a shelf of those darn ($) dr. earth amends, like alfalfa, kelp, fish meal, fish bone meal. also azomite and glauconite in addition to every half-empty bag of mycos... azos mostly. oh also a little blood, additional bone and then bat shit for good measure. BT too! the best new addition in there is crab shell meal. I've been told I need to add ample Lyme but I'm kinda skittish about that one. One problem is that I don't let things 'cook' for long enough (planing) and usually need to get plants in soil. while I generously add pro-mix to the top horizon of the container to avoid burning upon transplant, I'm concerned a lot of lyme may make mix too hot, early on, and/or drive ph too low.

As soon as the first sign of snow flurries i brought those bins in from the cold. wouldn't some of the microbes diminish as well as slow the breaking down of materials? Is neem cake available this time of year? Isn't it a pulpy byproduct of the after harvest neem seeds? It'd be nice to find a supplier only a few states away. shipping on lg. bags adds up.

you can see my program may be lacking some, is overpriced and still needs work. ...finally gettin back to work and expect to make positive strides this year, 2014, w ma dirt. thanks for any feedback and thanks for asking Rrog.

actually abe freezing it will help it break down much faster. when a living cell freezes it ruptures, when thawed the little micro army has a hay day. it increases decomp by a ton.



The rev (I know, i know... but he does have some creative ideas at times.) Has a method of super juicing plants either in hot climates or if they need a good hard shot of P. take a nice quano tea mix and put some in an ice cube tray add water and let freeze... all the little bat poop cells go pop and are much easier to break down. when the ice melts its nice cold super charged water!

i wonder if you could freeze a big batch of soil and then let it come inside and thaw? would recreate the winter to spring transition so I'm guessing it wouldnt hurt? question is will it speed up cook time?

 

[Rrog]

If you're recycling the soil, then there's just one cook time, and then that's it... simple = me like

 

[HGK420]

ya the rev is anti simple sometimes i think. goes the extra mile to try and look smart or something idk. i do like the idea of ice cubes a lot more then staking your roots for shots of P and K tho.

what process do you use for recycling? do you break it all down into a pile or just replant each pot individually?

 

[st0wandgrow]

Hey Rrog- the soil is ok.
So this fall I rush mixed a batch of everything I had around. I know for sure I have to educate myself more, am lacking neem cake, need to start cooking sooner and have to find better econo suppliers for amendments.

I didn't use tarps or some huge corner of my yard to blend... neatly lined up ten 25 gallon bins (nothing is really quantified properly either/ -abe "free-pour" broham) and commenced with evenly allocating some old bags of roots and fox farm. plus orange label pro-mix to begin my base. plenty of bags of wiggle worm castings and other fancy labeled over priced bags of general organics ancient forest (ha, that bag literally contains many rocks in it) and marine green by aurora.

I cleaned off a shelf of those darn ($) dr. earth amends, like alfalfa, kelp, fish meal, fish bone meal. also azomite and glauconite in addition to every half-empty bag of mycos... azos mostly. oh also a little blood, additional bone and then bat shit for good measure. BT too! the best new addition in there is crab shell meal. I've been told I need to add ample Lyme but I'm kinda skittish about that one. One problem is that I don't let things 'cook' for long enough (planing) and usually need to get plants in soil. while I generously add pro-mix to the top horizon of the container to avoid burning upon transplant, I'm concerned a lot of lyme may make mix too hot, early on, and/or drive ph too low.

As soon as the first sign of snow flurries i brought those bins in from the cold. wouldn't some of the microbes diminish as well as slow the breaking down of materials? Is neem cake available this time of year? Isn't it a pulpy byproduct of the after harvest neem seeds? It'd be nice to find a supplier only a few states away. shipping on lg. bags adds up.

you can see my program may be lacking some, is overpriced and still needs work. ...finally gettin back to work and expect to make positive strides this year, 2014, w ma dirt. thanks for any feedback and thanks for asking Rrog.

Couple things abe:

Liming agents will raise your ph, not lower it. A better alternative to dolomite lime (which does not give you the proper ratio of cal:mg) is go to home depot and pick up a package of garden gypsum, and a package of Lily Miller Super Sweet (calcium carbonate). Oyster shell flour works well too but that has to be ordered online and shipped.

Also, if you're looking at picking up neem seed meal (or karanja seed meal) this is the best product/company out there: http://www.neemresource.com/

 

[Rrog]

what process do you use for recycling? do you break it all down into a pile or just replant each pot individually?

Just plant right back into what you have

 

[Rrog]

Like my buddy here. This is recycled soil.

 

[abe supercro]

stow thanks. yes I'll check out that brand of calcium carbonate <good reminder! and look into gypsum too. (oops )
your neem cake supplier is in minnesota so shipping may not be too bad.

hgk- I get it about freezing to rupture cell walls and enhancing breakdown. just kinda seems counter to a compost pile heating up as it's cooking. thought heat speeds too. all those microbes must have down jackets or something to survive the freeze. dirt dwellin smells like team spirit

 

[abe supercro]

Hey look what I found on pg. 6 -

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (2 parts Perlite, 2 parts chunky coco, 1 part Vermiculite)
1/3 Humus (1 part EWC, 1 part local / used topsoil, 1 part leaf litter, 1 part compost)

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

½ Cup DE
½ Cup Espoma Starter Plus
1 cup Charcoal
½ Cup Epsom Salt
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)

½ Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L)
1 Cup Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal (Espoma makes it)
2 Cups Fish Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag
½ Cup Alfalfa

1.5 Cups Montmorillonite clay
1.5 Cups Pyrophyllite Clay

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle)

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes. Let rest for 4 weeks.

Recipe largely courtesy of Gascanistan and Clackamas Coot. Tried and true. With amendments, they don't even till the soil. Chop one plant, plop a seed or clone right next to it and keep going. 12-13 generations like that and the fungal colony just gets more and more efficient by not disturbing the soil. Add a few worms. They're free. Red wigglers, not nightcrawlers.

 

[abe supercro]

Hey what kind of sand should i use?

So last year I compared a few diff brands of sand to use as mulch on smaller(ish) plants. I'm convinced that when it's warm bug season it'll deter them fliers from penetrating your container, kinda like DE. Last night, I found my fave brand o sand outside in the garden section at home depot, aka 'home de potpourri'. The bag is clear and blue, "washed play sand" by Kolorscape. so this is what I'll root in soon too. looks like it's distributed from Atlanta, GA. > www.myoldcastle.com

 

[abe supercro]

... pg. 7 this statement got me thinking.

The neat thing about castings, as Coot's suggests, is that I can create any sort of special nutrient recipe necessary by simply feeding the raw materials to the worms.

re-reading this lactobacillus action tutorial sounds straight frwd. fattie made some

You are going to collect Lactobacillus from the air around you.

Add 1/2 cup of uncooked rice to 1 cup cool water in a bowl and stir. The water will become cloudy with rice starch.

Pour just the rice wash into a 1 quart mason jar or similar

Place the open mouth jar (no lid) within 2 feet of the floor for a couple days. I might leave on my back porch step for an afternoon, etc. We&#8217;re just collecting microbes at this point. The air will deliver them.

After 2 days, loosely place a lid on mason jar. Keep in room temp dark place for two more days.

After two days there will be a stinky film on the top. This is perfect. You have all sorts of wild bacteria, fungus, and yeasts. Be we only want a certain type of bacteria, Lactobacillus.

We selectively feed Lacto B the lactose in milk. The rest of the organisms in that rice wash don&#8217;t do so well in that environment, and Lacto B dominates.

So we have 2 cups of room temp milk. Skim, whole, 2%, whatever. Not hot and not cold. 70F is great. To that milk, add just a teaspoon or so of that stinky rice wash. Throw away the rest of the rice wash.

Two days later, the Lacto B will have separated much of the protein from the yellow whey (serum). Scoop out the cheese-like protein so you can get at that yellow serum. Animals love that protein, BTW.

Mix the yellow serum 1:1 with molasses, and 20 parts water. It&#8217;s ready to store in the fridge. The molasses will also feed the Lacto B.

This is still concentrated. You can add a couple tablespoons of this to a gallon of water for soil or foliar. You can add this to soil to start the microbes after a new soil mix. You can spray as a foliar in veg or early flower.

This will keep for months in the fridge. Will not smell, etc.

 

[Rrog]

You got it, Abe!

 

[fattiemcnuggins]

My pup loves when I make the LB! My dirt too. Got a plant started, so now maybe I can start using up these trash cans full o dirt

 

[michagander]

I grow outdoors in "super soil", no pesticides, nothing but organic, no ferts, nothing but super soil.

I have seen a lot of indoor growers spraying "Raid" on their plants 3 days before harvest so the dispensaries wont find mites on their crop, omg! What shocked me the most was when I told other growers they say they do it too, omg!

Is smoking "Raid" good medicine? (sarcasm) When I told a local dispensary owner he just shrugged his shoulders, omg!

What makes it sad is I have trouble selling my "outdoor dope" as the dispensaries call it because they wont buy outdoor grown and most of my friends grow too. If they would legalize dispensaries maybe then we would see some "outdoor, 100% Organic" on their shelves.

just a thought

 

[Rrog]

This is the kind of shit that will bring in regulators. Raid on MMJ... great

And what can we say in defense? "Most of us don't use raid..."

 

[HGK420]

IMO regulations are fine for anyone claiming income but do i need to get my maters checked for raid before i can put em up for sale on a stand. or at a farmers market? (Small scale)

no you dont but you better believe that if someone pulled your card and had something tested your business would be over if it came up with bad stuffs... thats where we need to get too. independent and competitive testing. if i can buy a gram from my competitor and show its bull shit then i doubt he will bring bull shit to the table. problem is testing costs.

hmmmm need to set up some sorta testers union to keep everyone honest maybe?