Inda-gro Induction...

chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
I think in early stages it will give better coverage. I'm actually looking forward to seeing this 8 bucket system installed for the tomato's. There's eight 7.8 gal buckets and a control bucket that altogether uses 25 gal of water. If they get em offset so that all the vertical light makes all four plants I think it'll pay dividends as the plants bulk up. As the plants grow taller I expect they'll flip from the 'Hyroot' orientation and back into the vertical orientation. I guess we shall see.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Congratulations Hyroot...........lol

Anyways I would like to know if putting an internal reflector within the induction bulb is feasible? like some t5 and hid bulbs.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
I think in early stages it will give better coverage. I'm actually looking forward to seeing this 8 bucket system installed for the tomato's. There's eight 7.8 gal buckets and a control bucket that altogether uses 25 gal of water. If they get em offset so that all the vertical light makes all four plants I think it'll pay dividends as the plants bulk up. As the plants grow taller I expect they'll flip from the Hyroot orientation and back into the vertical orientation. I guess we shall see.
Click to expand...
or they could stack another one on top. i think in the vertical orientation. A light mover would help alot.. Making a full 360 degree coverage. instead of a wall of light. Eventually I plan on getting one. I will search forever to find the best deal. The only ones I found are solar revolutios. They are $400 + just for the motor... I'm not paying that. I could do a diy one. I don't trust those hobby shop parts..


PSUAGRO. said:
Congratulations Hyroot...........lol

Anyways I would like to know if putting an internal reflector within the induction bulb is feasible? like some t5 and hid bulbs.
Click to expand...

The t5's that have that are just the actinics. They don't seem to last as long as others. Then again the uvl redsuns go pretty quick in comparison. Prof liked them. but when he made an appearance on here a couple months ago. He was stuck in 2006 technology. He couldn't comprehend how much led and induction have improved.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I hear you brother........I think it would help future "horizontal"induction panel growers allot:-)

Its just a reflective coating on the inner part of the bulb?.......but it may mess with how the induction fires up without an electrode.....need some chaz info right now.

The Chinese can build anything the buyer request......ha
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Hiya P! Why would you want to put a reflective material inside one 1/2 of an EFDL lamp? What is your goal?

There are very few reasons to employ this in standard fluorescent lamps because of the inefficiencies. When doing a reflective surface inside a fluorescent lamp you do so because there is no reasonable alternative to using an external reflective material. A well designed high quality external reflector captures the light that would be directed towards an unwanted surface and puts it where needed much more economically than an internal reflector lamps. Unless you have an application where you simply can't use an external reflector for lack of room IMO it's not worth pursuing.

So if you absolutely can not accommodate a back reflector here is the direction you're headed;

Sylvania sells a 100 watt internal reflector EFDL lamp for $420 not including the driver.

http://www.superiorlighting.com/100_Watt_T17_Icetron_Electrodeless_Fluorescent_La_p/26161-syl.htm

As you read the spec you'll see that with a 360 degree 100 watt EFDL emitting 8500 lumens adding the internal reflector in Sylvania's lamp puts the lumen output at 5,014 lumens as you can see by their spec. They lost 3,500 lumens and only recovered 750 lumens of the 4,250 lumens that 1/2 of that emitted which when compared to using no reflector at all this redirecting 750 lumens only represents on 18% increase in the downward direction. My point is pretty much ANY external reflector is going to do better than that.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Reflect the light downward at its source instead of traveling into the reflector and"bouncing"out the bottom losing intensity/efficiency.

This won't work without an electrode/arc right?
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
I updated my last post. The bottom line is that internal reflectors are not nearly as efficient as external reflectors in directing the light where you need it to go.
 
Mr John

Mr John

Active Member
What height above your ladies are you at with the IG420? I am at 20 inches and that seems plenty close to me... Plants seem fine, maybe leaves are a little dry but that may because of my low RH
 
SCARHOLE

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
I believe the fish t5 light offer some with mirror plating on half.
They claim it helps light out put.
Yeah, you'll be getting somewhat more light concentrated on a smaller area, but as a result you may end up needing more lights to cover the entire area in a uniform fashion.

(Also the wierd clear Chinese Nano reflector coatings seem to be a scam IMHO.
Idk.)

inda gro seems like a happy medium to me ,360' output, to a highly polished specular reflector.


Ps
Speaking of specular reflection, y'all ever noticed how it does t seem to follow inverse square law?
You can see a signal mirror for miles.
Ive been considering mirroring around my garden again...
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
Hiya P! Why would you want to put a reflective material inside one 1/2 of an EFDL lamp? What is your goal?

There are very few reasons to employ this in standard fluorescent lamps because of the inefficiencies. When doing a reflective surface inside a fluorescent lamp you do so because there is no reasonable alternative to using an external reflective material. A well designed high quality external reflector captures the light that would be directed towards an unwanted surface and puts it where needed much more economically than an internal reflector lamps. Unless you have an application where you simply can't use an external reflector for lack of room IMO it's not worth pursuing.

So if you absolutely can not accommodate a back reflector here is the direction you're headed;

Sylvania sells a 100 watt internal reflector EFDL lamp for $420 not including the driver.

http://www.superiorlighting.com/100_Watt_T17_Icetron_Electrodeless_Fluorescent_La_p/26161-syl.htm

As you read the spec you'll see that with a 360 degree 100 watt EFDL emitting 8500 lumens adding the internal reflector in Sylvania's lamp puts the lumen output at 5,014 lumens as you can see by their spec. They lost 3,500 lumens and only recovered 750 lumens of the 4,250 lumens that 1/2 of that emitted which when compared to using no reflector at all this redirecting 750 lumens only represents on 18% increase in the downward direction. My point is pretty much ANY external reflector is going to do better than that.
Click to expand...

This boggle's my mind^^^ why are the losses so high?? Is it due to the induction tech?? Some losses are a given but making directional vs omni-directional is worth it usually.

Why would sylvania, one of the worlds largest light technology companies even include the internal reflector if the losses are so HIGH?? crazy....

always liked the idea on HID http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Reflectorized-400-watt-HPS-Bulb just seems ineffective with induction i guess:confused:
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
What you have to remember the inefficiencies are driven by light that is being reflected through two coats of phosphor. The material is put on the inside edge of the glass and only then is the phosphor applied to the entire interior diameter of the lamp. It's only appropriate if you have no other way to use an external reflector and as I sit here typing this if that were the case I would go to another technology before doing so with an EFDL lamp. I would be very surprised if Sylvania has sold more than a handful of these. And to those that have sold I would bet that those who bought them did so in the mistaken belief (hook line and sinker) that this would increase by ~100% or double intensities by having added an interior reflector. And as Sylvania's own spec sheets show this is simply not the case.
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
From the link you provided to the HTG Supply website:

Outstanding Reflective Qualities: 95% effecient!
- Amazing uniformity in light spread
- 10% more light on the plant canopy.
- Reduces green house / grow room shadowing and "hot spots"
- The light distribution compared with a well designed luminaire/reflector is superior giving an effective higher light output.
- No heavy, expensive shades/reflectors to assemble.
- High Output 58,000 LUMENS! (standard 400w HPS bulbs emit only 50,000 lumens)
- Higher Output = Faster/More Plant Growth = Higher Yields
- Universal positioning - Longer Life than standard HPS bulbs (24,000+ hours)
- Can be used inside the Cool Tubes - Color Temp: 2100K
- One Year Warranty

My problem with these statements begins with that they continue to advertise the lamps values in lumens not PPF. After that it seems to me they are stating they can create more lumens by adding a reflector. Lumen measurements taken in an integrating sphere would be light emitted in all directions. If the reflector aims light which presumes proper lamp orientation in the socket and you don't have this lamp inside a housing where a reflector could be installed for a fraction of the price you are undoubtedly purchasing this lamp because you believe the advertising that the internal reflector has increased lumen output. Not only is this patently untrue the reading they should be advertising would be an 'in situ' measurement whereby the candela plot takes into consideration the reflector optics as if this were a lamp/fixture measurement which brings us back to a PPFD value in plant lighting vernacular or as they persist in stating photopic values you would be interested in a candela plot where Lux/Footcandles values are stated.

As I said earlier, save your money and put in a good external reflector. The value of a reflector within the lamp is, to be kind; 'misunderstood' by those who would market them for benefits that would go beyond those of a high quality, well designed external reflector.

The light distribution compared with a well designed luminaire/reflector is superior giving an effective higher light output.
Click to expand...
But then they make this statement and I know they are selling lamp hype not reality.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
True^^^ your NOT gaining more lumens from the bulb itself but you should gain more initially-directed lumens(intensity) towards the canopy, the closer the light is refracted at the source the better or no?distance is the issue with any indoor lighting. their also seems to be an opening at the end of the bulb which will lose it's supposed 95% reflective properties which is BS anyways. And your limited to hort position only obviously

vertical bare bulb is the best way no doubt, only loss is from the outer "envelop"/glass/quartz/etc.

would love for someone to take readings with a meter on the internal reflector hps bulb Vs a regular hps with hood.......:hump:.......personally I think there would be a decent gain.
 
CaliWorthington

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
Sucks that these guys would pull that crap. I'm sure IBeam would shut them down if you let them know about it. They're located in So Cal and would probably hook you up directly.

http://www.brotherhoodproducts.com/
Click to expand...
Yeah I originally tried to use the contact form on that website, but it didn't work. The ebay seller had a good price, with free shipping and no tax (out-of-state). I had contact with them, said he had 6 I Beams. Then I waited 3 weeks before buying one, and after that, nothing... no tracking number, no reply to message. Monday I can escalate it to a refund request case.

I'll try calling the brotherhood dude, or one of the dealers that is supposed to carry them, we'll see. Or I might possibly try the Rocket plasma, at least I know a seller who has those that actually ships (quick too).

Or there's the new Apache...
 
SCARHOLE

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
Pic day under IndaGro 420



Smallest plants to biggest.


Mini 6 oz clone of Sunset ltd.





Nycd auto x auto haze







Swerves sunset ltd
Dense lil buds..





Strawberry affro auto mutt.
Some of the seeds are mature.
i think she's a lovely sativa Dom , fuck the haters.
Just wait tell the next gen





DrGt c99 x amnesia haze x auto haze project.
Getting white an the seeds are confirmed.





DrGt chemo Iranian x Nl5/haze c
week 5







Nevil haze 21 x Mullimbimby Madness.





Pics of the Nycd auto x Auto haze I seeded buds I took down.
 
Mr John

Mr John

Active Member
6 days later since my last pict putting these ladies just over 2 weeks old. Got PH under control and nutes are at 390ppm. Once the young ones are bigger Ill boost
up 500-600 ppm.

Folks do they look ok?
 

Attachments

You must log in or register to reply here.
Top