High PH signs, symptoms and correcting...Pictorial!! A must read for newb'z

[sativa indica pits]

In the month I have been on roll it up, I have read countless threads of plant problems, dark green leaves drooping, claw like looking, slower growth and purple stems to name a few. High ph is problem for many growers including my self.

Here are a few plants that are healthy, growing fast hell, and the ph is right around 6.5-6.8 range.
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I selected a few plants that I dont really like to do this experiment on. Here are the pics of the root systems before the experiment.
View attachment 2930071View attachment 2930072View attachment 2930075 They are healthy, white and very fast growing, this is after 4-5 days after my second round of transplanting.

This is the water I flushed through the plants. It was the highest possible ph I could get. Above 8.5 would be my guess.
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With-in 12 hrs of flushing with 8.5 water the plants started showing symptoms, drooping, claw looking leaves, dark green and almost a 3d look to the leaf surface. There are some leaves that curl and twist as the soil is now toxic to them.
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Ph problems are best diagnosed with-in 24 hrs of the first symptoms. After 48 hrs the ph continues to lock out nutes and makes it almost impossible to tell what the hell is wrong with your plants.

If the ph remains high for more than 48 hrs it will start yellowing the plants and make them look like death( note if the ph is around 7.5 the yellowing will take much longer and the dark green leaves and drooping will be the main symptoms) When the ph is above 8 it locks out many macro and micro nutes at the same time which causes the yellowing, brown dead spots, rust color spots, purple leaves and stems and many more symptoms. It becomes very hard to tell what is wrong because your plant will show 3 maybe even 4 deficiencies at the same time. It can be confused with cold temps, and over fertilizing when the real problem is ph.
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To correct a high ph, I will be flushing with 4.0 water. Lemon juice is also very acidic which will lower the ph.
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After about 1 gallon of 4.0 water the ph starts to drop (note, these are large dunkin donut cups that hold about 4 cups of soil) If you have a large pot, It will take a lot of water to drop the ph to a 6.5-6.8 range.
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After about 2 gallons of flushing with 4.0 water the ph is down to an acceptable range.
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I hope a lot of people who have plant troubles read this, and put it to good use. Feel free to ask questions or mention anything I missed. Merry growing!!


Not sure if the pics are working, if not let me know please

 

[Bugeye]

Most excellent post!

 

[sativa indica pits]

thanks, are the pics working? I copied and pasted from general growing and the pics dont show up on my thread??

 

[Bugeye]

I have to click on each link to see the picture, but I can see them after clicking.

 

[slowandsteady]

good info thanks. pics work for me but have to click them

 

[ProdigalSun]

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/251235-stop-blaming-issues-ph-people.html

 

[sativa indica pits]

yea...haha... From what ive learned over the past 10 yrs of growing indoors is ph plays a big roll in my plants overall health.( this may not be very important for some, but I dont see them posting pics like my avatar) Once it creeps out of range, my plants start suffering. The reason I made this post is I have seen like 10 other posts of problems and pics, like the ones I posted. I have brought the ph of those plants back to 6.5 after going thru hell for a few days and they are perked up and getting back to normal. I will upload some pics of those exact plants I ran the experiment on in a few.

 

[phantombuds]

Coming from outdoor growing, I NEVER pd'd my water and pulled some good weight off every plant I grew, now doing an indoor grow I found out differently, and with that being said...I would like to thank you for posting this! You pointed me in the exact direction I need to go. I ph'd my water (soil runoff) and it was at 8.5!!!! No wonder my plants were looking like death warmed over….

 

[ProdigalSun]

yea...haha... From what ive learned over the past 10 yrs of growing indoors is ph plays a big roll in my plants overall health.( this may not be very important for some, but I dont see them posting pics like my avatar) Once it creeps out of range, my plants start suffering. The reason I made this post is I have seen like 10 other posts of problems and pics, like the ones I posted. I have brought the ph of those plants back to 6.5 after going thru hell for a few days and they are perked up and getting back to normal. I will upload some pics of those exact plants I ran the experiment on in a few.

I see you didn't read the thread I had linked.

 

[sativa indica pits]

I see you didn't read the thread I had linked.

well I did read some of it. Its 40 pages long. lol I got as far as "the first thing out of inexperienced growers mouths is ph" He goes on to say cannabis is ph tolerant, not my strain, Every problem is not linked to ph, he is right about that. Ive been on icmag for a while and uncle ben has ben a part of ph studies and has shared pics of what happens to plants when the ph gets out of range. When it comes to growing mj, I look to trusted sources like ed rosenthal, mel frank, jack herer, and a few others.

And im glad to see phantom bud got some use out of this!! Watch your plants flourish now you got the ph in check. Some water is perfect 6.8-7.0 and you will never have to add a drop of ph anything except when adding nutes, but my water is 8.0 which needs correction, my rain water is 5.0 which also needs correction.

The reason I posted and ran this experiment on my good healthy plants is I wanted to show how important ph really is for fast, lush growth.

guess Ill get off my ass and take some pics of how they look this afternoon, 3 days after the 1st dose of 8.5..


Im not sure If I completely understand the usefulness of that thread, I only got misleading info there, maybe im reading it wrong??

 

[ProdigalSun]

I looked to the scientific parts of the thread and learned about how ph worked in the soil, and that it was far easier and more effective to set up the soil properly so that it corrects the ph itself as the water is added, than to try to ph correct every feeding.

The thread isn't about how unimportant ph is, quite to the contrary in fact, it stresses the importance of ph to the plant. The thread just shows you how to get a consistent and proper ph much more easily.

The thread link was intended to add to your thread.

 

[Bugeye]

I'm able to do just fine with 5.5ph rainwater (unadjusted) but I'm growing in well balanced organic soil, using myco fungi, and putting organic teas down every two weeks. Could I do better with adjusted water? I honestly don't know because I'm getting perfect leaf structure and good color as it is. I don't ever see wild swings in my soil ph so I'm probably biased to think about nutrient issues first and ph secondary. I am more likely to think ph is an issue when using non-organic nutes or growing hydro.

That said, I'm here to learn more while helping with what I can. Your experiment was excellent in that it opened my eyes wider to ph issues in soil. Again, well done.

 

[dubcoastOGs]

No, He's right. A proper, healthy, living soil will maintain it's own ph, And if your giving it good water, the microbes will have no problem buffering it to their liking. If your Ph is not right in bag soil, your doing something else to cause the slide/drift. The inconsistent ph is just a side effect. There's too many variables to say this, that, do this, your wrong, or what. but I find people that have a messed up ph, don't know the first thing about microbiology. Just my opinion though.

 

[PKHydro]

Nicely done man, maybe someone could change the pics so they arnt links. However I feel like we're still missing the other half of this experiment....

How long did you leave the plants in the high pH'd soil (time between 8.5 feeding and 4.0 flush)



And how are they looking now, how long did it take for them to start coming around?


I realize you got your own shit to do, but if you find some time it would be cool to see it go full circle.

 

[sativa indica pits]

Yes ph is very important. Soil is the base for all plants. The general rule is good soil= good plants shitty soil=shitty plants. I started to use mycos about 3 yrs ago, now I wont grow without it. It helps keep the soil naturally neutral ph. I mixed a batch of soil up with mycos a few months ago, put it in buckets and left it. Last month I got the buckets, opened them up and it was completely white, and a solid block, I checked the ph and it was right on, 6.8 i couldnt believe it, I checked the ph like 3 times. I broke it up and mixed with new soil and the seeds I put in that soil are the biggest and fastest growing.....I swear by myco's!!

But here are some pics just a few min ago. All the plants are recovering, perked up and growing. The ph will slowly climb up up and away if I do not correct it. It will probably take about 1 week to get back to normal. Different strains all recover at different rates, some immediately, some a week. But they are looking better compared to the 12 hr pics





2 of the plants I fuked up are still high and I will have to flush again to get the ph lower.

 

[sativa indica pits]

I looked to the scientific parts of the thread and learned about how ph worked in the soil, and that it was far easier and more effective to set up the soil properly so that it corrects the ph itself as the water is added, than to try to ph correct every feeding.

The thread isn't about how unimportant ph is, quite to the contrary in fact, it stresses the importance of ph to the plant. The thread just shows you how to get a consistent and proper ph much more easily.

The thread link was intended to add to your thread.

Yea, Ive read a few pages into it and it is proof that soil, good soil will make it much easier to grow healthy plants. I think biggest problem that cause ph wack outs is the soil.

I use a very light mix, pro-mix, perlite, vermiculite, peat, compost, mycos, wood ash, lime, gypsum. After getting just the right amounts of everything, my soil kicks ass and grows sweet, skunky, dank bud. I never get bud that smells like chems.


i tryed 3 times to get the pics open instead of links,.... The original post was in general growing and I copied it to bring here, Ill keep fuking around and try to fix it

 

[AllenHaze]

I'd like to understand your experiment a little clearer. How long did your experiment last and how long did you flush them? Are you sure these results are not due to over watering? Where are your sources citing a high pH causes drooping to begin with? I can understand that after flushing with a high pH water for an extended period of time the plant would show clear signs of over-watering however stating as fact that this is because of the high pH of the water is mistaking correlation with causation. It takes a little while for soil pH to change hence the inquiry as to the length of your experiment. I'm curious because you tried saying the same thing on a post I put up earlier about one of my plants leaves curling that were growing in FFOF. Due to the organic matter breaking down though I've yet to hear anything about them becoming increasingly alkaline over time. https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/760997-droopy-leaves-brown-chlorosis-new.html This is a link to the problem right here if you recall.
Here is another link to when I figured out the problem of the discoloration https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/761902-help-rep-5.html which was not due to pH problems. If I had followed your advice at the time to "flush with pH 5.5 water" I could very well have stressed my plant further and lost potential medicine. Don't get me wrong, no disrespect here man. I appreciate the awareness that you're trying to spread I'm just not all for giving advice that isn't actually factual and it seems there may be some fact mixed in with fiction here. You could really hurt someones plant if you're not careful. First two photos are before and afters of the plant you attempted to diagnose after I transplanted into 3/5 OF and HF pH 6.5 - 6.6 with nothing else added. The second photo I have is of the others that are all in the same mix as the first, with no problems. The third and fourth are photos of another plant that showed the same browning at new growth and it's recovery less than 24 hours after I corrected for cooler soil temperatures resulting from the "Thermic cooling effect of sweating." Take it easy and I hope to hear back from you. Thanks.

 

[thecannacove]

rep+ - great post. I think too many people think simply adjusting ph of their water to 6.5 will lower soil ph to 6.5.
glad you pointed out that its necessary to drop the ph by using a lower ph (4-5) than you want your soil's ph to end up at. Otherwise you just pissin' in the wind

 

[max420thc]

If you Add dolomite lime/garden lime from lowes or mennards at five bucks a bag and mix it into the soil it will maintain the soil PH at around 7 for dirt growers and will not let it go above that. ALL soil growers should add dolomite/garden lawn lime to their dirt to ever keep from having a PH swing out of whack.
If you think a high PH is bad you should see a low PH problem..wow..it will straight screw up some plants.They will however recover once the PH is corrected in a short period of time.
Always PH your water before you put it in no matter what you might think.Always play it safe and PH your water before you pour it on.This will ensure you do not lock out the nutes before you even pour them on.
Some people recommend around 2 table spoons per gallon of dirt.The lime will also add needed calcium to the dirt your plant will like.
The best articles you can read on dirt growing are on this site over in organics under subcools super soil.
His super soil mix is the best ive ever used it is easy simple and has complete nutrition for marijuana plants..Some of the guys around here have good results with happy frog/ fox farm mix.
Soil is the easiest medium to grow in but the hardest to grow well in.
If you add garden lime to your soil and azomite you will not have PH problems and you will not have any micro nute problems.If you can stop micro nute ph problems before they happen when something does go wrong as it always does from time to time it will be easier and faster to narrow it down knowing what it is NOT.This makes figuring out what the problem IS much easier and faster.

 

[sativa indica pits]

I'd like to understand your experiment a little clearer. How long did your experiment last and how long did you flush them? Are you sure these results are not due to over watering? Where are your sources citing a high pH causes drooping to begin with? I can understand that after flushing with a high pH water for an extended period of time the plant would show clear signs of over-watering however stating as fact that this is because of the high pH of the water is mistaking correlation with causation. It takes a little while for soil pH to change hence the inquiry as to the length of your experiment. I'm curious because you tried saying the same thing on a post I put up earlier about one of my plants leaves curling that were growing in FFOF. Due to the organic matter breaking down though I've yet to hear anything about them becoming increasingly alkaline over time. https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/760997-droopy-leaves-brown-chlorosis-new.html This is a link to the problem right here if you recall.
Here is another link to when I figured out the problem of the discoloration https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/761902-help-rep-5.html which was not due to pH problems. If I had followed your advice at the time to "flush with pH 5.5 water" I could very well have stressed my plant further and lost potential medicine. Don't get me wrong, no disrespect here man. I appreciate the awareness that you're trying to spread I'm just not all for giving advice that isn't actually factual and it seems there may be some fact mixed in with fiction here. You could really hurt someones plant if you're not careful. First two photos are before and afters of the plant you attempted to diagnose after I transplanted into 3/5 OF and HF pH 6.5 - 6.6 with nothing else added. The second photo I have is of the others that are all in the same mix as the first, with no problems. The third and fourth are photos of another plant that showed the same browning at new growth and it's recovery less than 24 hours after I corrected for cooler soil temperatures resulting from the "Thermic cooling effect of sweating." Take it easy and I hope to hear back from you. Thanks.
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Well, I must say that trying to diagnose a sick plant by a pic. is a little tricky. And if someone tells me they are growing in a perfect environment and shows me pics like that I would still say ph. And do you not agree your pics look anything like mine? I would say they are identical to my pics, are they not? Those pics were after 12hrs of intentionally raising the ph to 8.5 or above. over watering signs usally show up after days and days of being soggy, it would be like growing in a swamp.

So please point out some fiction in my post, pics dont lie do they?

Does this look like fictionif you look very close you can see the plants I raised the ph right in the middle of that pic., This is proof that the plants can with stand extremes when it comes to ph and when corrected within 24 hrs they will recover and be just fine. Yes I told you to flush the worst plant and see if it helped.....did you? I dont really think you would have lost anything if those plants died, they havent even started to flower and looks like it might be a while before you have any medicine to loose?? I try to kill some of my male plants just for fun....its really hard to kill them!!

I have a pretty good idea how to grow and how get healthy plants, just trying to help people who ask for help, thats all. here are 4 of my gardens this past summer, (LOOK AT ALL THOSE TOPS!!) I have a total of 13 just like this, and this is what they look like in spring.


please dont call fiction on my post with all the facts and proof I have posted.