1800 Watt Chemdawg-D Vertical Tree Grow à la Heath Robinson

ddftre,

It is technically my third time with this system, but its also only my 5th run with hydro. My last yield with this system was near 1.5 lbs on two chemdawgs, so I did not hit anywhere near a gram per watt mark, but I take full responsibility for that as it was due to a lack of growers skill and also not fully understanding the needs of large plant or how Heath's design worked in providing for those needs. The previous system was made from General Hydroponics ECO Powergrower systems and they are no where near the volume needed to support a large plant. Also, the inlets were only 1/2 inch, the single drains were 1" and the pump was rated for 950 gph. I wasn't getting the water through there fast enough and besides, I didn't have enough space to grow a proper root system.

Finally, I had developed a bad tendency, as many noobs do, of attempting to mix complex nute recipes with lots of a additives, under the "more is better" assumption. I've finally come around to realizing that, when grown right, plants in this system only need a quality complete nutrient base (e.g. G.H. Flora series) and a few extras to bolster immune systems or prevent deficiencies (e.g. Cal-Mag, Pro-tekt, SuperThrive, Aquashield). I've cut out the Liquid Karma after the first few weeks because of the organic matter that I suspect contributed to my onset of the the root rot. I'll still be using a bloom booster, btw, but not until flower.

In short, I have been learning hydro as I have been working to perfect this system. I finally feel comfortable enough with it to maintain a journal on it and I have high expectations this time around. However, it should be noted that even when Heath hit over 4lbs (i think somewhere near 74 oz on two plants combined) he was only hitting around 1.15 grams per watt. That's still awesome, but I know other systems may achieve higher. The beauty of this method, though, still lies in the high yield to plant number ratio. No other system that I have seen can even approach pulling 4 lbs off of two plants indoors. So, I guess what I am trying to say is that even with the right genetics and a proper setup, you still have to master this system to hit the gram per watt mark, but its totally doable and worth investing the time and money if plant numbers and security are an issue for you as they are for me.

This change was done on Sunday the 6th, but I am just remembering to post it.
This was quite unusual, because the few days preceding it, my ph began to skyrocket and I had a brown septic foam forming in my res/ pots accompanied by what appeared to be pinkish spores of a fungus. Anyway, I had to disinfect the entire system with Pythoff, a chloramine-based, non-systemic water sanitizer from Flairform.

Then, completely drained the R.O. holding tank and sanitized it with bleach, rinsing it afterwards. After many reinnoculations of Aquashield, I am back to having a happy healthy system free of nasties and sporting a stable pH.

I backed off the nutes a little bit more this time and wound up with this, which they seem to really like at this stage.

Starting EC: 0.2 or 100ppm (it was tap water as my R.O. tank was infected with nasties)

G.H. Flora Series: (.75 tsp - .75 tsp. - .75 tsp.) GMB/gal
Cal-Mag: 1 tsp. / gal
Superthrive: 1 TBSP/ 45 gal.
Aquashield: 2 tsp/ gal

Final EC: 1.02

Here a few pics from today, showing how they have recovered from the pH swings of the last week. Also, the humidity has been waning on me this last week because of the weather outside. I've got two humidifiers running right now, but they can only maintain about 50 percent most of the time. That will be less of a problem as they get bigger and as the weather changes.

They are a little behind, seeing as how I am nearing the end of four weeks of veg, but this was also due to overwatering in the first few weeks and of course, the root rot. All is well now.

In the photos, you can see both the res and the tubs aeration by the inlets/ ball valve. Also, the the R.O. holding tank has a pump to keep the water churning. The controller shows my res temps and hygrometer my room temps/humidity. Under those conditions, it must have been a pretty wicked bacteria or fungus that infected my system.

Why not aerate the root structure? I realize you're recirculating a lot faster than most systems, but what can provide more DO to the roots than small air bubbles directly passing by them.
I'm subbed in for the grow. This looks great so far. Cant wait for the watts to be ramped up.

smiley87 said:

Why not aerate the root structure? I realize you're recirculating a lot faster than most systems, but what can provide more DO to the roots than small air bubbles directly passing by them.
I'm subbed in for the grow. This looks great so far. Cant wait for the watts to be ramped up.

Click to expand...

I have two, potentially conflicting answers for you -- neither of which can I give solid proof of.

The first consists of quotes from Heath himself that come from the HG420 Archive on strainguidge.org. The question came up a few times and I think this is as clear as he gets, though I find it still leaves some specifics in the dark:

"The Waterfarm is a dripper system, one of the must do mods besides drilling the inner bucket is to add a air stone if you want to use them as a "stand alone" system.

I discovered the recirculating idea when I was growing DWC, I couldn't sustain a big tree in one so I had the idea to recirculate the nutrient at a high rate to improve the DO. This worked so well that the plant broke the net pot with the stem and roots, so I had to come up with something which used quite a bit of substrate, hence the Aqua/Waterfarm idea."

"The 4000L /hour pump is to cope with the Dissolved Oxygen demands of a large plant, it will supply enough DO for 4, 3LB+ plants."


"...yes it recirculates 24/7 its the recirculating action which creates the dissolved oxygen which allows the massive growth."

The second answer I can give is based on my own inferences of how the system provides high levels of DO directly to the root zone without the use of air stones in the individual tubs or the res:

The res itself is being aerated by a faucet-like elbow and ball valve assembly (see picture below) that tees off from the pump. Since the pump runs continuously, this "faucet" also runs continuously. Think of the dramatic effect made by a waterfall into the river below, only on a smaller scale.

The ball valve allows you to regulate the rate of flow, thereby giving you the ability to ensure enough churning action to sufficiently aerate the solution in the res without sacrificing flow rate through the system. I have mine set to about 25% of the way open.

There is a 3" gap between the downward-facing inlet elbow and the water level in the tubs. This, coupled with the high flow rate ensures that this churning effect is achieved once again as the water enters each tub. This method creates as many, if not more bubbles than 3 or 4 air stones would in a tub.

(Note: I will be adding an air stone to each tub in the next few days as an after thought, but I must emphasize that this is only as a safeguard against stagnation in the event of a pump failure.



Though, you can't tell from this picture, the pressure from the inlet forces bubbles to the bottom of the tub, which then rise to the surface.

As, I said, neither give a complete, proven answer. The quotes from Heath are inconclusive and my ideas are merely conjecture. One this is fore sure, however, and that is that the high rate of flow through the tubs is what constantly refreshes the root zone with "new" water, high in DO, from the res and allows for the huge growth.

Also, I know Heath was poking a round this thread at the beginning, so if you see this and want to jump in to clarify this for us, Heath, please go right ahead.

CM

so crotch monger what your saying is that your pump , pumps into the same reservoir it is pumping out of and at the same time it is feeding your tubs with the plants in them?

ddftre,

That is exactly it. The 1" PVC comes out of the pump, then divides at a tee, much like a road does. One direction -- we'll call it "Right" -- goes out of the res and tee's once more to feed the two separate tubs whilst the other direction -- "Left" -- goes a short distance (approx. 1') within the res to an on/off ball valve which is used to regulate flow. This is connected to a downward-facing elbow fitting located roughly 3 inches above the water line. The "Right" or feed line gets the bulk of the pump's pressure; This is to ensure the quick flow rate through the system. The "Left" line need only be allowed enough pressure to created the desired churning effect. As stated before, this is around 25% on.

I will remove the pump and PVC fixture on the next res change and take a photo so you can see it more clearly than in the top down photos.

CM

I know this seems out of the blue and I apologize to anyone subscribed to this thread, but I am leaving RIU.org
No one provoked me to it and nothing bad happened on my end. It's just a personal choice. I'm a private, introvert and the open nature of this site rather puts me off. No offense to anyone in the slightest. Again, it was merely a personal choice and based solely on a desire to keep to myself. I suppose the info that is here will remain even once my account is deactivated, so do with that what you will. This will be my last post and I won't be checking back or answering pm's. Best wishes to all here.

CM

Bogus thanks for the info though

you plum why bother to start it then?

the clones are started using the General Hydroponics Waterfarm Plumbing kits, from Heath's video it appears when plants are in flower they receive water from a hose and not a "halo dripper". is the halo dripper replaced at some point or utilized through the entire grow ?

do you have any photographs?

cwa951: you nailed it. the halo is replaced by a half-inch hose feed once the roots of both plants hit the bottom.
sorry i know i'm a tad late with a response. just wanted to give you a smoke break!

Awesome configuration!