1st Grow - bubbles, CFL, too many plants

Hi everyone,

FINALLY got my grow box / system built and running. I am starting off with a couple of bag seeds and the freebies I got with my attitude order.

Problem is that ALL of the freebie seeds have popped, and now I have what is shaping up to be 11 germinated seedlings, and only 8 pots to grow in. One of the bag seeds is old, and the stem sure seems very skimpy and spindly compared to the newly germinated Kandy Kush X Skunk from G-19. The other bag seed is new, from a strain I like, and looks very healthy. However, is it "generally" wiser to go with a "designed" (bought) vs. "accidental" (bag) seed?

I REALLY hate the idea of tossing germinated plants - especially "designer" ones - but unless I throw them in some dirt I don't think I have any choice. And even that doesn't sound "great" because I don't have enough room for dirt pots in my grow box (20x20 inches).

Any ideas?

Also, I know that you should wait for the 2nd set of real leaves before adding nutes, but since some plants are taking off earlier than others, will it hurt to make some plants "wait" - vs. feeding some plants too early?

P.S. - Hats off to G-19 labs for 6 out of 6 germination.

those dont look like CFL bulbs buddy they look like halogen bulbs

svchop889 said:

those dont look like CFL bulbs buddy they look like halogen bulbs

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23w, 1100 lumens, 5000k daylight. Best that home depot had to offer.

I wired 13 sockets, all height-adjustable. Only using 4 at the moment until the other plants poke out. I have 9 2700k lamps, same wattage and style, standing by.

The idea here was "sea of CFL". Actually, the original idea was to put each light on a bendable "stalk" - but making the stalks became way too hard, so they all just hang down now.

i wait till they have established a good set of roots then i start them on 1/4 strength nutes

Power Towel said:

23w, 1100 lumens, 5000k daylight. Best that home depot had to offer.

I wired 13 sockets, all height-adjustable. Only using 4 at the moment until the other plants poke out. I have 9 2700k lamps, same wattage and style, standing by.

The idea here was "sea of CFL". Actually, the original idea was to put each light on a bendable "stalk" - but making the stalks became way too hard, so they all just hang down now.

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You might wanna throw in a 2700k bulb or two for the duel spectrum.
and where did you get those fixtures they look different from the ones you get at home depot. Also nice nice setup good luck on your grow. And the extra seedling got any friends that might want 1 or 2?

Wow im high i thought those were reflectors those arent? Those are not CFL's (COMPACT fluroesent lights) I dont know the bulbs but there not compact. Still want to know about the fixtures but I think u need to do some light research I could be wrong but I don't think your supposed to use flood lights

Power Towel said:

23w, 1100 lumens, 5000k daylight. Best that home depot had to offer.

I wired 13 sockets, all height-adjustable. Only using 4 at the moment until the other plants poke out. I have 9 2700k lamps, same wattage and style, standing by.

The idea here was "sea of CFL". Actually, the original idea was to put each light on a bendable "stalk" - but making the stalks became way too hard, so they all just hang down now.

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Also since I think u got the wrong lights get some 6500k insted of 5000k I used a 4500k lights and they fucking suck

newbie grow420 said:

You might wanna throw in a 2700k bulb or two for the duel spectrum.
and where did you get those fixtures they look different from the ones you get at home depot. Also nice nice setup good luck on your grow. And the extra seedling got any friends that might want 1 or 2?

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go back to home depot and look harder thats where i get everything right now i have 5 cool and 2 warm 23 watt cfls. check my journal i'll be following yours

newb is 100 percent right those crappy ass halogens will work slowly and inafficient and waste more energy than rather than harvest it. your plants will stretch.

algeezy509 said:

go back to home depot and look harder thats where i get everything right now i have 5 cool and 2 warm 23 watt cfls. check my journal i'll be following yours

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Yeah man I SCOURED the shelves at HD, target, wal-mart must be a geographical thing - only 5000k is on the shelves here for daylight lamps. I plan on throwing in some of the 2700s also - still figuring out temp control with lights and fan. I guess I could have gone online to get the 6000 or 6500k bulbs - but took the easy route.

the sockets were less than $2 each at HD. They have these puncture-type of connectors - you feed the wire in, and screw down the base, and the pokey connectors are supposed to stab throught through the insulation and make contact. However, with the 14/2 wiring I'm using (1800 watt rating), I had to strip and solder the ends to get a good connection.

PS - these are not halogens. They are the Philips "flood" CFLs. Just a CFL with a "flood" reflector/housing around the CFL tubing. Philips makes the 2700, Ecosmart the 5000. Here are some pics of the Philips.

They are more expensive, but the reflectors are amazing, and eliminates the need for additional reflectors. You can just pile these up next to each other using simple sockets.

Power Towel said:

PS - these are not halogens. They are the Philips "flood" CFLs. Just a CFL with a "flood" reflector/housing around the CFL tubing. Philips makes the 2700, Ecosmart the 5000. Here are some pics of the Philips.

They are more expensive, but the reflectors are amazing, and eliminates the need for additional reflectors. You can just pile these up next to each other using simple sockets.

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if you do a search on cfl you will read all about spectrum and from what i have read 5000 k is worthless to plants in general. you need to take the 5000 back and get more 2700, but you also need to find some in the 6500 k spectrum. i found my 27k at H. D. and 65k at lowes, the 65k from lowes are 26 watt daylight and they dont come in the floodlight version, just spiral cfl. good luck i'll be watchinjust reread the post from DR. chronic under cfl, good stuff, lots of info. sounds like you can use 5000k but 65k is better good luck.

Thanks for the tip on Lowes. They had 6500K in the 23w "flood" package. 8 are directly above each pot, and I have 2x 2700K/23w up higher to fill in a little of that spectrum.

Going from 4 bulbs to 10 made a HUGE jump in box temps - and stupid me I didn't pay attention that my timer outlets were switched "always on" not "timed" - so I nearly killed them with 24/7 light at a temp in the upper 90s for 2 days. Note for large amounts of CFLs, you need to mix that air up because they will radiate very localized "hot spots" otherwise.

Got a little fan for $18 - 115v, 15watt, 60CFM. I put that over on the right hand side (the bottom right is where the intake air port is). With that blowing around and mixing up the intake air good, I am now at about 80 degrees - not the greatest but not terrible - may need to open up more intake holes as I can tell it's restricted (sucks the front door onto the seals).

You'll notice one of the plants got a little crispy on the ends. This is the 6th day since I put the germinated seeds in the pots. No second set of real leaves yet. Should I be worried? Seems like I've seen way bigger plants in pictures here at (almost) a week after germination. Maybe it was the temperature shock?

you should bump up you light toat least 18 hours for veg, most use 24 hours for cfl veg, then go to 12/12 when you want to flower. good luck and keep us posted

If your stores aint got what ya want... there is always ebay. But, make sure the seller has 100% positive feedback.. or pretty close to it. I have bought some cool hard to find items there for cheap. Its worth a try. Good Luck

Sorry for no pics this post - so I came back from a trip and at 8 days after germination I saw 2nd set of leaves on just about every plant. The pH had risen to 8.3. Damn.

So I mix up a new batch of tap water (200ppm and 8.1-ish pH), add 7ml per gallon (1/4 strength) of Botanicare Pure Blend Pro (grow), and the ph is at 7.0.

I add General Hydroponics PH up - shooting for 7.7 - the idea being a GRADUAL bringing down of the pH to the 6.0 neighborhood. It ended up at pH 7.3 - a full point below what the last reservoir of plain water was - but I figured what the heck - it's just a bubbler and there were only a couple plants with a tiny little root in the water.

I check it today - about 18 hours later, and the pH is back up to 8.3.

WTF???

Is this common for pH to just keep rising - or - reverting to the ph of the original water? Do the GH pH up/down products "break down" in solution or something after a while? I'm going nuts with this.

added ph down (too much), ,then ph up. It is now at 7.7, a slight decrease from 8.3. I guess I will check it again tonight. Does adding both ph up and down make the solution more stable, i.e. have a buffering effect?

I feel like I'm going to have to adjust this several times a day if I'm going to "gradually" get the ph where it needs to be.

Perhaps I should go with the baking soda approach - and make my res more "buffered"?

Here are a few pics of the babies. 9 days after germination. Curious why the leaves are curling "back" - maybe bending toward the aluminum foil?

Oh and PS - having my Hanna pH meter near all my CFL lights makes it go nuts - readings all over the place - so I have to turn them off to get a stable reading. Just an FYI - careful taking pH readings with a Hanna digital pH meter very close to CFLs.

Less than 4 hours later - pH back up to 8.1 - just threw in more acid kicking it down to 7.6. What a nightmare - if this doesn't smooth out at least somewhat - I may have to resort to a new water source.

Power Towel said:

Less than 4 hours later - pH back up to 8.1 - just threw in more acid kicking it down to 7.6. What a nightmare - if this doesn't smooth out at least somewhat - I may have to resort to a new water source.

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This is what's known as the pH roller coaster. The object in pH adjustment is to gradually reduce the swing, not to force it to a point like 5.8. That's why you should only check it once a day and at the same time each day. Adjust it once then. If it's over 8 add the pH down to take it just to 7 for now. Too much adjustment too often adds momentum to the swing.

As for pH down I think it is essential to use a good product made for hydro not aquariums. Also nutes are important. The whole reason for concern about pH is because of nute uptake. The best (IMO) nutes are those that are forgiving about a wider pH range. I use Humboldt Master A & B, and I don't care as long as pH is between 5.5 and 7.0. And the plants do great.

Think of pH as a canoe - you have to stabilize it gently and get the feel of it.

newbie grow420 said:

Wow im high i thought those were reflectors those arent? Those are not CFL's (COMPACT fluroesent lights) I dont know the bulbs but there not compact. Still want to know about the fixtures but I think u need to do some light research I could be wrong but I don't think your supposed to use flood lights

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yea they are...i have one " only one lol" of the same kind he is useing...got it from the depot also....if u would to brake the outer shell u would see the cfl inside...they are outdoor cfls basically