1st timer - worried about my white widow babies

Howdy all, first of all I'm Josh, and I'm a first time grower. I'm trying the White Widow Strain from feminized seeds. First of all I'll give you my specs of my plants and grow medium etc..

Strain: White Widow Feminized (From Seed)
Germination Rate: 18 / 20 (90%)
Current Plant Height: 9 inches
Timescale: 2 weeks into Vegitation
Current Pot Size: 4 litre (1 Gallon)
Lights: 2x 600w HPS Lamps (1.5 feet from plant tops)
Room Humidity: 50% avg
Room Temp: 83F (28c) avg
Water PH: 7.5

Grow Medium:
- 5% Premix
- 10% Worm Castings
- 20% Sphagnum Peat Moss
- 35% Peat
- 30% Perlite
- PH of 6.5

Now since I began growing, I've always had this slight problem of yellow leaves toward the bottom of the plants. It only seems to be getting worse Not all plants show it, but 50% have constant lower yellow leaves. There can also be some brown spots from time to time. I Have attached picture so someone can identify the problem for me please

Yesterday I fed them some 25-10-10 Nitrogen Fertilizer for the first time. 1/5th of a Table spoon per liter of water.

I Water every 3 days right now, with about a 1/3rd of a liter per pot (4ltr). I also add a tiny amount of white vinegar to my water to bring the PH down to around 6.0.

I also mist with the same water every 6 days without the lights being on for a few hours.

Last week I had a problem where room temperature reached 95F constantly for about 5 days as we had a mini-heatwave. I have now installed a vent and extractor to prevent this from happening again.

The roots are beginning to come out of the holes at the bottom of the pots, so I have ordered new 14ltr (3.7 Gallons) pots to transplant them into.

I've tried the "Plant Abuse FAQ" and all I could draw from that was a combination of Heat Stress, Nitro deficiency, and turning the HIDs back on too soon after Misting.

I really dont have a clue what I've done wrong, I've tried to do everything as precise as possible. Could it be the plants have just out grown the pots? Are the lights too intense or close to the plants? Am I not feeding/watering them correctly?

Once last thing I noticed is, they are not growing very tall, they seem to be more bushy, but I understand this is how WW is supposed to be. I hope I've mangaged to include everything in this post that is needed for a correct diagnoses. Any suggestions and help would be much appritiated!

Many thanks!

sorry to bump this, i'm new i just want to fix this as quick as possible and now lose my crop. thanks guys.

Im also growing WW and having the same problem!

What stage are your plants at mate? How many weeks are they gone?


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Today there are brown spots appearing on one plant, Complete yellow lower leaves. Looks like a Magnesium deficiency, but the leaf is completely yellow.

would you say your plant is affected overall, or does it seem like its spreading maybe from one side to the other? and do the leaves crisp up and die or just get yellow and fall off?

Don't be too put off by the slow growth, you are growing from seed after all. Seedlings take from 6 weeks to 3 months before they formed all their adult parts and are ready for budding.

Try this method to deal to the yellowing leaves. Water deeply so that there is run off into the pot footer, then rather than working on a 3 day arbitrary watering scheme, wait till the pots are completely dry before watering again. This may take longer than 3 days, and as the plants metabolisms react to this style of watering they will begin to demand more which will mean that you may be back to 3 days again or 2 days between watering.

In the meantime allow the pots to dry right out from what you have already fed them before watering again. Once the roots recover from living in a soggy environment you should see the plants metabolism speed up and vegetation will take off.

As for the roots coming out the bottom, I can tell from the pics that the rootball hasn't formed correctly yet, deep watering as I discussed will fix this issue and allow roots to fill out the pots, even if you repot. My guess is that they have headed straight for the bottom of the pot with very little reaching out laterally to fill up the rest of the grow medium. Once the bottom couple of branches bush out and surpass the pots edges then you know the roots have spread out correctly.

hey man you have buy good staff as i see, maybe the pots are too small any change when you put them in bigger pots?
for venging you dont need HPS lamps - daylight is what required at 6700k metal halide lamps are way the best for veg
so you have 1200watt for how many plants? in what space?
you should have hps 20 inches or more far away from your plants but hps is basic for flower period not for veg thats why your plants are small and of course because are ww but the light counts too!
i suggest to water when 1-2 inches of the soil is dryed or almost dryed ph at 7 is very good for the veg period you should not drop it to 6 because you locking(they can't absorb sto much as with ph at 7) some of the most basic nuts n-p-k
start to feed them but a little 1ml per litre is a good start you dont want to burn them as they are small they dont need so much
you could spray with some fert into the leaves so they can recover more quick but do not forget to spray again with pure water after a couple of days.
all the seedlings and plants need first the daylight lamps it's very important for your plants growth!

WillMunny said:

would you say your plant is affected overall, or does it seem like its spreading maybe from one side to the other? and do the leaves crisp up and die or just get yellow and fall off?

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A few yellow leaves on one side, then it spreads round the plant. Only the bottom level of leaves are affected. Maybe the 2nd from the bottom on a couple of my plants.

Jonus said:

Try this method to deal to the yellowing leaves. Water deeply so that there is run off into the pot footer, then rather than working on a 3 day arbitrary watering scheme, wait till the pots are completely dry before watering again. This may take longer than 3 days, and as the plants metabolisms react to this style of watering they will begin to demand more which will mean that you may be back to 3 days again or 2 days between watering.

As for the roots coming out the bottom, I can tell from the pics that the rootball hasn't formed correctly yet, deep watering as I discussed will fix this issue and allow roots to fill out the pots, even if you repot. My guess is that they have headed straight for the bottom of the pot with very little reaching out laterally to fill up the rest of the grow medium. Once the bottom couple of branches bush out and surpass the pots edges then you know the roots have spread out correctly.

Click to expand...

Today the soil mix was completely dried out, so I watered thoroughly like you suggested till I got a small amount of run off. Was this right, Or should I leave the soil dried up for a few days before watering again?

I transplanted the 3 worst looking plants today, into fresh soil mix, 3.8 gallon pots. The roots had gone to the bottom like you said and started growing up the inside of the pot (they were about half way up the inside of the pot), but good enough to hold the whole thing together so it was easy to transplant.

kostasgr said:

i suggest to water when 1-2 inches of the soil is dryed or almost dryed ph at 7 is very good for the veg period you should not drop it to 6 because you locking(they can't absorb sto much as with ph at 7) some of the most basic nuts n-p-k

you could spray with some fert into the leaves so they can recover more quick but do not forget to spray again with pure water after a couple of days.

Click to expand...

Is ph of 7 the best? I was told to keep it more on the acidic side, between 5.8 and 6.6 to prevent salt build up ?

Are you suggest foiler feeding a small bit of nitrogen even after i've fed them a small amount 3/4 days ago?

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My Humidity is down to between 35% and 45% is this ok also?

The new soil mix has a ph of 6.6, but my water is 7.5, should I bring the water down to 6.6 before watering them?

Thanks for all your help guys.

Just my opinion here, but I think fungal infections are often overlooked. There may also be other issues to deal with here, but if it seems to start on one side and move around the plant, you may want to consider a fungus. To that end, while you figure this out I would suggest picking up a bottle of Garden Safe Fungicide3 from Home Depot. This is a fungicide, insecticide, miticide and is suitable for use on vegetables (was recommended by an oldtime grower named BOG). In the past I've removed affected portions of leaves then sprayed the plant as directed and have had great results. While it may or may not resolve THIS issue, it certainly won't hurt your plants and is good to have around. Good luck

wrestler007 said:

Is ph of 7 the best? I was told to keep it more on the acidic side, between 5.8 and 6.6 to prevent salt build up ?

Are you suggest foiler feeding a small bit of nitrogen even after i've fed them a small amount 3/4 days ago?

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My Humidity is down to between 35% and 45% is this ok also?

The new soil mix has a ph of 6.6, but my water is 7.5, should I bring the water down to 6.6 before watering them?

Thanks for all your help guys.

Click to expand...

for hydroponics is better to be lower ph 5.8 - 6.6, in soil you need about 6.5-7 so your plant will take the npk on high rates
if you have already done foliar feeding dont do it again you will burn them, maximun use of foliar feed every week
your humidity is a little low but i think it's ok
Humidity between 30-70% temp aim for around 75-85

dont worry your babies will be ok and willmunny got a point i agree, go to your garden and watch carefull for any infection pests, yellow almost died leaves must be removed so they wont drop off the soil and cause pests to come in your garden

WillMunny said:

Just my opinion here, but I think fungal infections are often overlooked. There may also be other issues to deal with here, but if it seems to start on one side and move around the plant, you may want to consider a fungus. To that end, while you figure this out I would suggest picking up a bottle of Garden Safe Fungicide3 from Home Depot. This is a fungicide, insecticide, miticide and is suitable for use on vegetables (was recommended by an oldtime grower named BOG). In the past I've removed affected portions of leaves then sprayed the plant as directed and have had great results. While it may or may not resolve THIS issue, it certainly won't hurt your plants and is good to have around. Good luck

Click to expand...

It can't be a ph problem this early in the game.

There's nothing wrong with the container size. In fact, it would be a better idea to start those in smaller containers when they're seedlings for a couple weeks and then put them in those pots you have them in now.

wrestler007 said:

Today the soil mix was completely dried out, so I watered thoroughly like you suggested till I got a small amount of run off. Was this right, Or should I leave the soil dried up for a few days before watering again?

Click to expand...

It doesn't hurt to let it go a little longer until you start to see just a hint of fan leaves drooping.

wrestler007 said:

I transplanted the 3 worst looking plants today, into fresh soil mix, 3.8 gallon pots. The roots had gone to the bottom like you said and started growing up the inside of the pot (they were about half way up the inside of the pot), but good enough to hold the whole thing together so it was easy to transplant.

Click to expand...

When you see roots like that, this means that they were not thoroughly watered from the beginning, so roots go straight to the bottom looking for nutrient, then make their way up the sides of the pots as well. Properly watered roots will evenly fill out the grow medium.

wrestler007 said:

Is ph of 7 the best? I was told to keep it more on the acidic side, between 5.8 and 6.6 to prevent salt build up ?

Click to expand...

In soil 7 is fine. To prevent salt build up, water the way you just did, allowing for run off, also dump the run off as well so that salts are not sucked back up into the pot.

wrestler007 said:

My Humidity is down to between 35% and 45% is this ok also?

Click to expand...

45% is adequate for vegging but not optimum. 60% is better, and is less stress on leaves.

wrestler007 said:

The new soil mix has a ph of 6.6, but my water is 7.5, should I bring the water down to 6.6 before watering them?

Click to expand...

Most potting mix soils will buffer the water to the right pH. In soil a pH range between 6.5 and 7.5 is fine, and what you are seeing there is not really pH caused, but more watering related, and the resulting stressed caused to the plants.

By far the worst condition for plants to be in when growing in soil is where the roots are soggy for long periods of time. This is why the 2 inch moisture test does not always work as a method of testing how wet soil is, especially when pots have not been thoroughly watered resulting in uneven moisture. By far the best method is testing how light the pot is. Pots should feel like they are full of balsa wood before further watering.

In allowing pots to dry in this manner, plants go through a change in metabolism from a slow metabolism where they are picky and almost bored, as well as stressed at the constant wetness of the root area, to, feeling like they are in drought therefore they gobble up whatever you put in the pot, and attempt to hold as much moisture as possible in stems of fan leaves.

This is a reaction that all plants do when faced with drought. It is a safety mechanism that has helped plants survive many changes in climate since the cambrian explosion. The cactus is the grand master of them all when it comes to retaining moisture, for of all plants, it is one of the true blue survivors of drought.

So employing this method has that affect on the metabolism of your plants and the result is faster uptake of nutrients, eventually pots will empty faster and require more watering frequency from you. Plants hold more moisture in the stems of fan leaves resulting in healthier leaves....healther root systems, healthy plants.

It's nitrogen deficiency.

You're also watering too lightly -- a one-gal pot can easily take a liter of water at one watering. You should be getting runoff out the bottom, just a little, with every watering.

Check your nutrients - you want your urea nitrogen to be very low (preferably zero), and a nitrate / ammoniacal N ratio of at least 1:1, preferably 2:1 or better when trying to correct a deficiency. A 3-1-2 ratio of NPK in any multiple (9-3-6, 18-6-12, 24-8-16, etc...) is ideal.