2015-Revealed :4000°K+660nm ! ...(?)

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Lately ,I fine member of this forum and very dear to me ,suggested his choice of solid state lights "combo "for the year 2015.Well ,to be honest , this suggestion kept showing up in front of my eyes from then...
Many things were flooding my mind ..action spectrum ,this ,that ....A mess...Is that spectrum the ideal ? ...

Well ...
Yes ..
But ..
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
In a certain "paper" - 'm kinda bored to name it ,once again ,yes from 1994 ,
but plants didn't change that much since then.Solid state technology has
.-one can read these lines :

from :
SPECTRAL COMPOSITION OF LIGHT AND
GROWING OF PLANTS IN CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS

Therefore, usage of the curve for action spectrum of photosynthesis is not correct in light regulation
under long-term stationary regimes, since certain reactions to spectrum and intensity of PAR aren't taken
into consideration.
All spectral requirements obtained under short light influence tests have similar limitations.
What should be done?

It's necessary to be guided by data obtained under long-term influence of spectral
and intensity characteristics on photosynthetic plant systems and even better on canopies of plants.


These are the photosynthetic structures which ultimately form to produce the harvested yield. We've
obtained some results which support this conclusion. These are some of the universal responses
(Tikhomirov et al., 1991):

1) The time for maximum affectivity of photosynthesis of plant canopies appears earlier
with red (600-700 nm) and later may shift to shorter wave length regions of PAR. This shift
depends on specific plant reaction to spectrum of PAR;

2) The relative effectiveness of blue rays increases
and green and red rays decreases with higher levels of irradiation (Fig. 2 and 3);

3) Maximum photosynthesis of canopies is possible only under combinations of blue,
green and red radiation. Any kind of combinations of two of these wavebands
or with only one spectral region, always reduces productivity.


http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960011687.pdf
Ok,by that ..Now I was presented to a ...."wise-..guide" ...
Or better ...A (most ? ) wise-guide is presented to me* ...

Edit :
*Or should include everybody else around here ?
Well,at least to me ,posting this thread ..
Honoring ,both my web-pal for his "idea" of things
-that proves to be wisdom and only truth of those things -
and the "wise-guide" at the same time ...
And it's going to be a looooong thread ...Trust me ...

No more of these voices from here and there ..!
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
(...) guided by data obtained under long-term influence of spectral
and intensity characteristics
on photosynthetic plant systems and even better on
canopies of plants.(...)

Hm....
What data ?
Should try this :


" Spectral Discrimination (!) of Cannabis sativa L. Leaves and Canopies. "

Sounds good ..
For starters , at least ...
 

Attachments

Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
The previous paper found in the zip folder contains lots of long-term obtained data for
our "preeeeeeciouuuusss specieeeeess" ,as Gollum would have said ...
But they are not taken from controlled environments ,
but from open -field grown plants ,under the most powerful lamp available ,the sun .


There one can find these :

Cc.JPG

Sun.JPG

Capture.JPG

strain.JPG
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Let us study for few moments the available "long-term obtained data" of ours ...
Starting from first graph ...


5 of July ...
Southern hemisphere..
Colombia..Equator...
What can been seen ?
Let's see about transmittance ..
The dotted line is of interest ,as most of the canopy has it's leaves with the abaxial side ,
towards the ground ,thus light transmission direction is adaxial=> abaxial side...


~10% is peaking at about 550nm ..
Total transmittance of 500-600 nm region is more and not that peak of ~10% at 550 nm ,only ...
Transmittance of 400-500 nm and 600-700 nm is -almost- negligible,
comparing to 500-600 nm region .
600-700 nm photons it seems that total transmission is half of the
500-600nm region ...
But still is quite small the total percentage of
those photons "passing-through" ,
the leaf tissue .
Especially those of 400-500 nm .
The " blue wls " region ...

Almost all of blue photons are absorbed by the very first leaves they "drop" to ..


Lot's of FR ( > ~730 nm ) photons are transmitted ..
Almost half of them around ..


Maximum RED absorption peak(less transmittance )
is at >650 nm - <690 nm range ..(~680 nm ).


We will come back for reflectance later on ...
Don't you worry about that ..Yet ...


Has anybody any objections so far ?
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
A small break ...
Lets us enjoy a a quite monochromatic and quiet moment of red serenity ...


Capture.JPG

http://www.elforsk.dk/elforskProjects/340-040/340-040_Slutrapport.pdf

(...) it is seen that the peak wavelength moves towards higher wavelengths as the current increases.(...)

Ohmmmmmmm.....
Ohmmmmmmmm....
.....

" AS THE CURRENTS FLY AND THE EFFICIENCIES DROP,

THE EMISSION PEAKS MOVE TO THE GOLDEN SPOT .
THIS STORY IS TO HOLD ,IT BELONGS TO THE RED LED WORLD.

WHILE THE HEAT UNFOLD ,KEEPS THE LAST WORD UNTOLD . "

:!:

660 nm ?
Why not 670nm ?
680 nm seems even better ..

But ...
Later on ...
Back to releflectance ...
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Cc.JPG

^^^That's the amounts reflected & transmitted with color as the main unit system ..(!) ..
Hundreds or even thousands of numbers and words needed to descibe ,
what colors do easy and silently enough ...Art ...



Capture.JPG
And here ^^^^^ a meta -impressionistic ,post -cubism
reperesentation of the spectral leaf canopy evolution ..
It's named "Towards the End " ,made by the famous
Mama di Naturale..
Some million years before ...


As flowering proceeds ,the differences of reflection + transmission are
negligible in the "blue band " of things ..eerrr....of PAr radiation .. ...
Green band's photons ,are less transmitted ,but more reflected...
Red band's photons are less transmitted ,but more reflected,also ..
Far red band's ...Are less reflected a tad ....
But quite less transmitted than before ...
So ? What happened to all these FR photons missing ?
I wonder ...
BL the "standard " ones ..
FR the most " changed -status" ones ...
At flowering ...
Weird ...
***:!:***

FLOWERING AND FAR-RED ENRICHMENT.
A PHOTOSYNTHETIC ROLE IN FLOWERING.

:wink:
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Back to Aeronautics and space science ...
......
SPECTRAL COMPOSITION OF LIGHT AND
GROWING OF PLANTS IN CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS
(...)
Optimal photosynthesis of plant leaves involves a harmonious relationship between spectrum and the
intensity of PAR.
Thus, plants "work" to obtain the maximum photosynthetic efficiency
(but the photosynthesis is not maximum for each leaf) (Tooming, 1984).

There is a question.

Is it necessary to prepare optimal light conditions for the photosynthesis of all
leaves on the plant or not?

What way is it determined?

The correct'decision on spectral composition of light depends very much
on certain morphological characteristics of plants. There is a dependance upon
the distribution of fruits (- NOTE: ..Or flowers... ) along a stem (Tikhomirov, 1990).
For example, cucumber has equal distribution of fruits along the stem.
There every leaf supplies assimilate to its fruit. In this connection
cucumber leaves at all layers must be provided with optimal light conditions. This requires a large
portion of green rays in PAR (about 40%). Red rays in PAR (about 40%) provide high level of
photosynthesis of upper leaves. Green rays penetrate into middle and lower leaves of plants. Blue rays
have regulatory function, but its part in PAR is not very big (about 20%) (Tikhomirov, 1989).
We have another situation, where fruits of a plant concentrate in the upper part of the stem. Classical
example is wheat. The ear of wheat is supplied with assimilates, primarily from the upper leaves. With
this crop, PAR must have approxinlately 60-70% red rays (Tikhomirov, 1990). We've obtained data on

specific reactions of plants for the spectral composition of PAR. It's particularly important during plant
development processes. According to this point of view plants may be divided into two groups
(Tikhomirov et al., 199 1):

1) The first group is characterized with restricted growth and development processes at
definite ontogenetic phases if the PAR spectrum and intensity are not optimized (i.e.,
cucumber, sunflower);


2) The second group include plants capable of passing through all ontogenetics phases and
producing a harvest irrespective of the PAR spectrum and intensity provided (for example:
tomatoes, wheat).

Wheat is capable of passing through all phases of ontogenesis regardless of any specific spectral
irradiation. It's correct for PAR range of 100-600 W m-2 and possibly even higher. Tomatoes have more
restricted PAR range in comparison with wheat. With a PAR of 200 Wm-2 and higher, tomato
productivity is lowered in red rays. PAR range for radish appeared to be more narrow. Even when red
and green light is equal at a PAR of 200 Wm-2,plants of radish perish. Cucumbers appeared to be the
most greatly influenced by the spectrum of PAR. For example in red wavelengths with less than PAR of
50 Wm-2, plants die.

We shouldn't ignore these great differences in reaction of plants on spectrum and PAR intensity.
All compromising decisions including

introduction of universal spectrum of irradiation
lead to partial loss of productivity.

(..)

And continues like ....

(...)

Equal-energetic spectrum ("white" light)
or
a spectrum similar to curve of the action spectrum of
photosynthesis (NOTE: Not the absorption specrum ,here . Ok ?)
have been proposed for use as a universal spectra for plants growing under lamp lighting.

The first might be chosen because of consideration of phylogenesis of plants, the second - because of
research familiar to you (McCree, 1972; Inada, 1976).

Either of these options could be accepted as a temporary compromise for initial research.

I do not believe that we have to copy illumination of plants
in natural conditions for use in controlled environment growing.
(Note :I'm joining the club,also . Me too ! )

For example there's no need to grow some species of plants under alternative
light dark periods.
Our research showed that productivity of some plants (radish, wheat) can be
increased under continuous irradiation (Tikhomirov et al., 1976; Lisovsky et al., 1987).
Also, we should not strictly aspire to duplicating morphophysiological characteristics of field grown plants. Thus,for example, we achieved a very large radish productivity when we sharply changed its
photomorphogenesis(T ikhomirov et al., 1976). This is true for increasing cucumber productivity too.
However, if we accept this concept, we must know where and how we should deviate from natural
conditions to increase productivity of plants grown in controlled environments.
(..)
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
----------------------------------------------Later on .__________________________________________

EFFECTS OF RADIATION QUALITY, INTENSITY, AND DURATION ON
PHOTOSYNTHESIS AND GROWTH

(...)
PLANT GROWTH IN SOME SPECIES IS SURPRISINGLY LITTLE
AFFECTED BY LIGHT QUALITY

Although photosynthesis may not be affected by light quality in short-term studies, the spectral
quality from some lamps decreases chlorophyll concentration and alters phytochrome status,
which can be detrimental to plant growth in long-term studies. The monochromatic radiation
from low-pressure sodium lamps can significantly reduce chlorophyll and plant growth in
several dicotyledonous species, for example.

Not all species are sensitive to spectral quality, however.
Low-pressure sodium lamps did not
decrease the growth and yield of wheat compared to HPS and MH lamps (Table 3), a finding we
recently confirmed. The plants under the low pressure sodium laps of course did not look
green, but the apparent difference in green color disappeared when the plants were removed and
placed together in full spectrum light. Studies with wheat grown under red LED'S also indicate
that chlorophyll synthesis, photosynthesis, growth, and yield of wheat (Triticum aestivum) are
insensitive to spectral quality.
(..)


(...)
RADIATION INTENSITY: INSTANTANEOUS VS. INTEGRATED DAILY
PHOTOSYNTHETIC PHOTON FLUX

Daily plant growth is closely related to the daily integrated PPF (mol m-2 d-I). Leaf emergence
rates are determined by daily integrated PPF (Volk and Bugbee, 199 1; Faust and Heins, 1993),
and physiological and anatomical characteristics of leaves appear to be determined by the integrated
rather than the instantaneous PPF. When Chabot, Jurik, and Chabot (1979) examined
combinations of photoperiod and instantaneous PPF; maximum photosyr~thetirca te, specific leaf
mass, and leaf anatomy were all determined by the integrated daily PPF; instantaneous PPF had
little effect.
One of the objectives of the workshop that resulted in these proceedings was to establish
guidelines for radiation intensity in controlled environments. The use of high intensity discharge
lamps @IPS and MH lamps) means that fiill summer sunlight (50 to 60 rnol m-2 6') can easily be
obtained in growth chambers.

Although the instantaneous value of summer sunlight is about
2000 pmol me2 s-', it is not always necessary to obtain this PPF level in growth chambers because
the photoperiod can be extended to achieve integrated PPF levels similar to the field. A PPF of
only 800 pmol m-2s " during a 16-h photoperiod results in an integrated PPF of 46.1 rnol mmd2 -',
which is close to average field values for June and July in much of the northern hemisphere.
Some short-day plants require a 12-h photoperiod, which decreases the integrated daily PPF in
both field and controlled environments. Geographic locations and seasons (equinoxes) with 12-h
photoperiods have lower daily PPF levels (35 to 40 rnol m-2 d-I), so high instantaneous PPF
levels may still not be required in growth chambers.
A PPF of 800 pmol m-2 s-' with a 12-h photoperiod results in 34.6 rnol me2 d-'.
(...)

(...)(
THE PPF RESPONSE OF SINGLE LEAVES AND CANOPIES

Light response curves for single leaves are well characterized and some workers have suggested
that PPF levels that saturate single-leaf photosynthesis are adequate for controlled environment
studies. However, canopy photosynthesis saturates at much higher PPF levels than single leaves
and PPF levels higher than 1000 pmol m-2 s-' would be beneficial in some studies. We have
found that the photosynthetic response of wheat canopies is linear up to full sunlight (2000 pmol
m-2 s-'; Meek, 1990; Figure 5).
(...)

(...)
CONCLUSIONS
Differences in radiation quality from the six most common electric lamp have little effect on
photosynthetic rate. Radiation quality primarily alters growth because of changes in branching
or internode elongation, which change radiation absorption.

Growth and yield in wheat appear to be insensitive to radiation quality.
Growth and yield in soybeans can be slightly increased under high pressure sodium lamps
compared to metal halide lamps, in spite of greatly reduced
chlorophyll concentrations under HPS lamps.

Daily integrated photosynthetic photon flux (
rn-, d-') most directly determines leaf anatomy and growth.

Photosynthetic photon flux level
800 pmol rn-, s-' are adequate to simulate field daily-integrated PPF levels for both short and
long day plants, but plant canopies can benefit from much higher-PPF levels.

(...)
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Space-age science continues ...

(..)
LEAF' ABSORBANCE AND PHOTOSYNTHESIS

The absorption spectrum of a leaf is often thought to contain some clues to the photosynthetic
action spectrum of chlorophyll. Of course, absorption of photons is needed for
photosynthesis, but the reverse, photosynthesis when there is absorption, is not necessarily
true. As a check on the existence of absorption limits we measured spectra for a few different
Two techniques for measuring absorption have been used, viz. the separate determination of
the diffuse reflectance and the diffuse transmittance with the leaf at a port of an integrating
sphere and the direct determination of the non-absorbed fraction with the leaf in the sphere.
In a cross-check both methods yielded the same results for the absorption spectrum.
(..)

others.JPG
Adaxial Absorptance = 1- (Adaxial Reflectance + Abaxial Transmittance )
adaxial.jpg


And here's from a young field grown at Colombia ,
Cannabis plant ,the leaf relative absorptance graph ...
csl.JPG





And it's ( Relative, with ~5,5 umol/sec being 100% )
spectral distribution of the Quanta Absorbed graph ...

quanta.JPG


And the little cherry on top ...


McCree.JPG

The McCree graph is quanta-weighted and represents data taken
from at least 22 different plants (field grown ).


See anythging "weird " here ?
A weird resemblance of the quanta absorbed and
the McCree quantum efficiency graph ...?

Which means ....

The ones absorbed mostly are the most efficient ?
Or vice versa ...
The most efficient are absorbed mostly ..?


Which goes first ..?
Anyway ,at least we pretty much ,have already enough data to proceed further ...
Data taken from field grown plants ,let us keep that always in mind ...

Shall we summarize then ?


Maybe we should start with blue 400-500 nm region ...

Aka "- WHY 4000°K ?....- Because ! " ....
Very interesting ...
Oh,we should not forget also :

LIGHTING CONSIDERATIONS IN CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS FOR NON PHOTOSYNTHETIC PLANT RESPONSES TO BLUE AND ULTRAVIOLET
RADIATION.

REQUIREMENTS OF BLUE, UV-A, AND W-B LIGHT FOR NORMAL GROWTH
OF HIGHER PLANTS, AS ASSESSED BY ACTION SPECTRA FOR GROWTH AND
RELATED PHENOMENA.

And this :

Capture.JPG
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
AND later we can procced to green range ....
The most complex one ..
The one having to do also with the POPULATION of plants ...

So..
NEIGHBOR DETECTION IN PLANT COMMUNITIES.
INFORMATION AND VEGETATIVE MORPHOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT.
CONSEQUENCES AT THE POPULATION LEVEL.
And Reflection of green ...


The one having to do with the height of plants ...
with the plant's and it's flower';s morphology ,
node spacing and type of acclimated leaf ..
With total levels of PAR ..
...
With enough shade avoidance ..
With green windows..
" With a pool and view at sea ..(!) ."

And later the Red 600-700 nm range ....
And those monochromatic LEDS ...
And their "behaviour & character " ...

And theeeennnn
......
The FR 700-800 nm comes ,last ..

FAR-RED ENRICHMENT AND PLANT GROWTH IN ARTIFICIALLY LIT CHAMBERS.
FLOWERING AND FAR-RED ENRICHMENT.
A PHOTOSYNTHETIC ROLE IN FLOWERING.
High R:FR Ratios.


(* I'm trying to make a plan ,here.. ...just trying . )
 
Last edited:

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Shall we begin then ?
Please good gentlemen let us discuss the blue photons for starters.
Please free to continue this thread with your notes,notices,thoughts ,ideas ,
assumptions and whatever else .
Now there's enough data around about blue range ..
And possibly more to be obtained ...
I stop here for now ...

Do your studies ,those having the will and the curiosity
and draw your conclusions .
And then post them ,right here ,please ...

I'll come back and continue further on ,later ..
After you ..
When we finish with the blue "color" ,light ,photons,wavelengths ,pills ,etc ...

All yours ...

" WHEN THE HANDS OF GREEN GODS GROW OLD,
HIGH ENERGY PHOTONS THE EASIEST TO GRAB AND HOLD .
AND NO MATTER THAT THEY ARE THE LEAST,
A FLOWER THEY CAN TURN ,WELL INTO A BEAST
. "
;-)
 
Last edited:

Doer

Well-Known Member
" Artificial light for plant growth"...
It's quite full of ....riddles .....
8-)
And in conclusion, we can summarize my introductory talk, thusly.... :) Very good. So, I can think of this right off the bat.

HYPOTHESIS
Blue flashes of short duration and high intensity should be able to provide additional PPF that is not available in blue light of lower intensity?
 
Last edited:

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Seems with my 6 Vero18/4.000k I have instingtiv taken the right choice for vegging.
Had often the best growth results with old T8/4.200k and I love this spectrum such a long time! My old 10x T8 frame somewhere lies attic!
Seriously, I love your posts and the opportunity to syncronize my knowledge with the latest research!
Keep it up!
Big thanks!
 
Top