21st Century Drip Using 320 GPH Pump

polyarcturus said:

to each thier own, i personally like PF grows, i have to say they are not necessarialy the most effective, but PF is an innovator his ideas are feasible and can work. plus he is getting mass oxygen to the roots this way cant knock his style if it gets it done.

Click to expand...

Not knocking pf grow if thats how it came off im truely sorry!
I think i just need to warm up to the idea

Have you tried contacting the guys who make the Halos? Your input might be valuable to them.

Barely 4 full days since getting ac to this room buds have more than doubled

Also took a pic of the drip/spray ring in action. Look closely and you will see 3 different streams from the same area

Looking good pf! Final getting some free time to see whats been going on

Looking Good M8.

Like the coloring with the lights, adds a wicked perspective to the pics.

Thanx for the share.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

After going on a parts hunt for my DIY frame, it occurred to me that someone should be making non-shunt T5-8 fixtures. I contacted one in Sanford FL. Will update once I hear from them

In the mean time new photos after 5 days of 1000ppm. Also, I increased feed frequency to every 20 minutes during lights on

It occurred to me to use my Sentinel MDT1 timer to turn the pump o/o. Now set at 10 seconds on/15 minutes off. At night I will unplug from MDT1 and plug into my analog timer so plants only get 1 feeding 6 hours after lights off

Is there anything to keep the roots moist during the off time? Most recirculating drip-ring systems I've tried and know of either run 24/7 or have at most 15-minute breaks between watering to prevent the roots drying out and dying. Usually, the more you water the better your results.

I love innovation and people who try new things, but the whole idea of trying different things is usually to find out what works best that hasn't been tried before.

Obviously I'm curious about the reasons behind your set-up and what you're hoping to achieve. Maybe if we all have a better understanding of that, we can try to help out by sharing experiences.

For example, if you really want to a run-to-waste system - and not a recirculating system - then I can understand a bit more why you are doing things the way you are. Of course, coco works much better in run-to-waste systems, but there might be a compromise with your system to make it work better than it is. Don't get me wrong - it is working the way it is - but we all like to make things better . . .

One tip I can offer is to use a bypass valve or tap to control your flow, like this one:




The way to set it up is similar to the diagram below. Ignore the arrows for a minute and imagine the shutoff valve in this diagram is your pump and the grass/ground is your reservoir. The pump pumps nutrient solution from the reservoir up to a T section, where one branch goes to the grow (right pipe) and the other to a tap (left pipe or "faucet"). Water takes the path of least resistance, so if you turn the tap on, water will flow out of it back into the reservoir. If you turn it off, the full force of the pump will go to your plants. If you turn it half-way, you can control the amount of flow. I do exactly this with my set-up (will try to take pix later). The water diverted back into the res has the added bonus of creating a waterfall effect which aerates your nutrient solution - which is why I don't run bubblers in my tank.




The other advantage of using a control valve is that as your reservoir runs low, gravity (the weight of water on top) does not assist the pump as much, so you find the water pressure from your pump drops as the water level in your res drops. This also makes it hard to control the exact flow. With the bypass system, you simply turn the tap off little by little to decrease the bypass and increase the pump flow to the plants. It would be quite easy to create a 24/7 drip system this way that drops just enough nutrient solution to feed your plants and keep the roots moist (in a "drip, drip, drip" way), while allowing your reservoir to hold enough water and also create a true run-to-waste system where the runoff is disposed of, but is not too excessive.

A bypass valve also allows you to control water flow without continually trying to guess what pump size you need for different applications.

I have read the thread, and watched the Youtube video - and in fact went back and read it again just to see if there was something I missed. What I see is a recirculating drip-feed hydro system - a system that's been around as long as hydro itself - so I'm trying to figure out what your "twist" is and why you are leaving 6 hours between waterings.

HPA usually stands for "high pressure aeroponics", but I don't see any high-pressure misters in that set-up. Unless "HPA" stands for something else? You also say it's run-to-waste - this is the run-to-waste section - but later mention the runoff drains back to your reservoir, which is a recirculating system.

Which is it?

Also, I never said you had a problem, I merely asked what you were trying to achieve, as whatever it is you're doing may already have been tried and tested before and you could perhaps learn something from those who have done it.

I've already given you an idea for regulating pressure flow in your system - an idea that is cheap and works - and would happily offer other ideas . . . if I knew exactly what it was you were trying to achieve. Of course, far be it for me to barge into your thread and offer advice. I'm not trying to impose.

OK, just read your edited post with a bit more info . . . Root hairs are not the key to rapid growth: oxygen is. Root hairs are a by-product of a well-oxygenated system. There are a couple of reasons why aeroponics outperforms other systems, but the primary one is the amount of oxygen it provides for root growth. Secondly, with no medium to penetrate and all nutrient requirements delivered directly to the root zone, the roots are free to propagate and deliver water and nutrient to the rest of the plant, making them more efficient. Even soil plants have root hairs - they're just not as visible. Soil plants expend a lot of growth energy in root formation, finding and uptaking nutrients - which is where aeroponics (and other forms of hydroponics) has the advantage.

If the root zone has enough oxygen, the plant will actually respond faster to warmer temperatures both in the root zone and general environment. Warmth provides vigour - as it does just about all other living things. (I'm sure you know your chemistry/physics and why this is so.)

Conversely, the key to drip systems is in the capillary action of the hydroton that helps spread the nutrient evenly. Hydroton is also porous - if you were to magnify it, you'd see lots of holes and cervices for moisture to accumulate in - and doesn't break down as easily as lava rock. Trapped water stagnates and oxygen dissolves out of it, leading to anaerobic conditions that promote the growth of pathogens.

In any case, I'm not trying to criticise but merely point out that some of your ideas are possibly off the mark. In which case, a more thorough understanding of how plants grow and root systems develop would help in your design. For example, the more you water, the faster your plants will grow in a hydroponic system providing you deliver enough oxygen to the roots at the same time. I know this because I have proven it over many years with different hydro set-ups, including coco - which many people still believe needs to be dried between waterings!

There is one thing many sterile hydro set-ups also lack, and that is microbial interaction with the roots in the rhizoshphere (which is missing in hydro). Of course, that's another facet of growing I'm not going to go off on a tangent with, but hopefully it gives you a better picture of what's going on with your plants.

EDIT: At the start of your thread you were deciding what pump to use, and eventually came to the realisation the 320gph pump was too big (see, I did read your thread!). With a bypass valve, you could have bought whatever pump you wanted - taking into account any upgrades in future - and restricted the flow using the cheap and simple bypass method. That's why I threw that in there.

But I promise, I won't bother you with another long-winded post in your thread again! I just like that you're doing something different and wanted to help if I could.

LOL! You've pulled a knuckleduster on a guy with a tank . . . I'm not one for pissing contests, but here's a glimpse of my harvest from last week: 3+ pounds under 1200w.

You don't know anything about oxygenation - that's plain to see - but certainly I wouldn't be bragging about 4.29 WET ounces from your last grow. My pounds are dried and trimmed, BTW.

You come across as quite rude and a little arrogant for someone who doesn't know much about growing. Especially when someone who's been doing it for 30+ years simply offers to help. I'll let your readers make up their own mind who they think knows what they're talking about.

Peace out











OK, I lied: the last two photos aren't from last week - they're from about six years ago - but consistency's what counts. Anyone can grow a couple of plants . . .