24/0 vs. 18/6 debate is over!!!!

DannyGreenEyes said:

Thanks for the link. +rep

But for now I won't be spraying with the lights on. I tried it when I first got the lady bugs with my lights hung at around 28". Just plain pH'd water and my girls got burned. Then it happened again...... I was spraying the mylar with plain water to give the Lady Bugs a drink and I guess some dribbled down the mylar and onto some leaves that were touching it. More burns.

And I can't raise my lights much more than they are now. I think I'm gonna have to get some hooks with anchors so I can hang them from the ceiling. They're hanging from a 2x4 about a ft below the ceiling now. But my girls are getting tall and the 10 gallon contaiers are a few inches taller than the 5 gallon. If they triple in size during flower (and I think they might do better than that thanks to the roots) there's not going to be a whole lot of room between the girls & the lights by the time I get them to harvest.

Thanks again for the link though. I'm always looking to learn. And if it's possible to spray them with the lights on, I might give it another try. But at this point, with my prior experience with it, I don't see it happening.

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Perhaps its your source of water? Too much chlorine/sodium maybe. Im gonna do a couple of test spots on my plants when lights come on. Water straight from tap, and tap water thats had the chlorine evaporated out.

Ill let you know how it goes.

DaveCoulier said:

Perhaps its your source of water? Too much chlorine/sodium maybe. Im gonna do a couple of test spots on my plants when lights come on. Water straight from tap, and tap water thats had the chlorine evaporated out.

Ill let you know how it goes.

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I always use tap water that's been standing opened for 24 hrs to spray and bottled water to water. Maybe I'll try the bottled water, I'm sure the tap water had mineral deposits in it.

One thing I did notice though. After I water my leaves, especially near the top, tilt at an upward angle towards the lights and makes it easier for them to catch & hold water. I can't say about 100% of the time because I wasn't doing it like a study or anything, but it did seem to happen more after I watered.

Let me finish reading that article, and maybe I'll try some bottled water.

It's really not going to make too much of a difference though, about changing the light schedule on my next grow. The Lady Bugs need some dark time to hunt, and it's probably stressing them out being in the light 24/7, and if I ever have to treat for pests again, I'm definately not spraying them with oil based suffocants under the lights.

Having 2 to 4 hours of dark just for those 2 reasons is reason enough. Being able to spray them down with water at lights out so the lady bugs get use to finding their water on the plants is just a bonus. Plus of course foliar feeding. I don't think I'd ever try to put nutes into even bottled water & spray them with it with the lights on.

I learned a lot about how bugs learn by having them btw. Bugs are actually smarter than I thought and they get into patterns. And they can change their patterns, it's more a function of free will than it is of instinct much of the time. I'm applying the same things I learn from them to Mites & other pests and it's really helping me to figure out how to set up protections for my room.

Danny, I gave four of my ladies a foliar feeding of Alga-A-Mic this afternoon, and one hour later it had all evaporated and no burns. This was with tap water sitting out for a couple of days.

I then sprayed one plant with the same tap water but nothing added to it. No burns on it.

The last plant was directly under the lights, and I sprayed it with straight tap water, no sitting out, and no burns on it.

The light is probably 8 inches above the plant directly in the middle.

Ill try this again tomorrow using a surfactant so the water sticks to the leaves better.

I did take pics today of before/after but magnetic ballast fucked up the pics, but Ill use the plants that are on the digital ballast for new pics/test.

Oh, I should probably mention I am using a 400w HPS. What do you have your plants under?

The leaves dont get burnt by how much light is magnified by the water on the leaves. the burn happens when your leaves are to close to the light and the Hot Temp from the light burns the leaves. So its the heat expelled from the light not the magnified light itself

DaveCoulier said:

Danny, I gave four of my ladies a foliar feeding of Alga-A-Mic this afternoon, and one hour later it had all evaporated and no burns. This was with tap water sitting out for a couple of days.

I then sprayed one plant with the same tap water but nothing added to it. No burns on it.

The last plant was directly under the lights, and I sprayed it with straight tap water, no sitting out, and no burns on it.

The light is probably 8 inches above the plant directly in the middle.

Ill try this again tomorrow using a surfactant so the water sticks to the leaves better.

I did take pics today of before/after but magnetic ballast fucked up the pics, but Ill use the plants that are on the digital ballast for new pics/test.

Oh, I should probably mention I am using a 400w HPS. What do you have your plants under?

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I have three 400w HIDs, two usually running at one time depending on temp.

I have open hoods and heat can become a problem.

If you want I'll take pics of the damage after I treat for mite eggs, it will be a few hours though.

Peace

DannyGreenEyes said:

I have three 400w HIDs, two usually running at one time depending on temp.

I have open hoods and heat can become a problem.

If you want I'll take pics of the damage after I treat for mite eggs, it will be a few hours though.

Peace

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Yeah take some pics. Id like to see what your dealing with.

mafuki said:

The leaves dont get burnt by how much light is magnified by the water on the leaves. the burn happens when your leaves are to close to the light and the Hot Temp from the light burns the leaves. So its the heat expelled from the light not the magnified light itself

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That's a load of crap.

The water can concentrate light where the infra-red energy cooks a pin point of the plant. Plants that are otherwise ok under a lamp do not "burn" form the radiant heat when you add water onto it.

This whole 24/0 argument is shit as well because all it ever focuses on is photosynthesis and banging on about how Cannabis is a C3 plant, this shit gets recycled every 6 months on web boards.

omg did u know cannabis is a c3 plant which means...

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No one disputes that cannabis can photosynthesise around the clock, that's what C3 plants are. It is not a question of whether it can photosynthesise or not, it's about cirrcadian rhythm, ethylene production, PGR production, phytochrome light receptors and a host of other things that are related to or wholly dependent on a dark cycle.

In actual fact the previous poster who stated a lighting regime of 22/2 down to 18/6 then 12/12 is doing the smartest thing as far as quality of product is concerned.

And whoever said that sex is only determined by chromosomes is barking up the wrong tree, it is thought cannabis had a Monoecious ancestor and there are still wild specimens out there that are wholly monoecious. Give me any "Fine genetics" cannabis plant from any seed vendor and I guarantee you I can make it develop both male and female reproductive organs.

So, so much crap gets peddled about plant science just because people like to get high off it.

i think 24-0 with cfls is fine with HID's some strains can't handle it

And whoever said that sex is only determined by chromosomes is barking up the wrong tree, it is thought cannabis had a Monoecious ancestor

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I'm guessing thought is the key word in that sentence, it's a known fact that cannabis is a dioecious plant. Producing males and females

Just because a BAD grower can force a plant to produce both sexes does NOT make it a monoecious plant.

sex is only determined by chromosomes is barking up the wrong tree

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Got any evidence to prove otherwise ?

Chromosomes are responsible for sex in just about any reproduction I can think of, cannabis contains 20 chromosomes....10 pairs. Among one of those pairs is the pair responsible for sex. XX, XY

The rest would be responsible for the resulting " phenotypes " you might see within a strain. With the different combinations for recessive and dominant traits.

xX, xY, Xx, Yx.....

Acuity said:

That's a load of crap.

The water can concentrate light where the infra-red energy cooks a pin point of the plant. Plants that are otherwise ok under a lamp do not "burn" form the radiant heat when you add water onto it.

This whole 24/0 argument is shit as well because all it ever focuses on is photosynthesis and banging on about how Cannabis is a C3 plant, this shit gets recycled every 6 months on web boards.



No one disputes that cannabis can photosynthesise around the clock, that's what C3 plants are. It is not a question of whether it can photosynthesise or not, it's about cirrcadian rhythm, ethylene production, PGR production, phytochrome light receptors and a host of other things that are related to or wholly dependent on a dark cycle.

In actual fact the previous poster who stated a lighting regime of 22/2 down to 18/6 then 12/12 is doing the smartest thing as far as quality of product is concerned.

And whoever said that sex is only determined by chromosomes is barking up the wrong tree, it is thought cannabis had a Monoecious ancestor and there are still wild specimens out there that are wholly monoecious. Give me any "Fine genetics" cannabis plant from any seed vendor and I guarantee you I can make it develop both male and female reproductive organs.

So, so much crap gets peddled about plant science just because people like to get high off it.

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First of all dude unless your using highy radiated light(sun) or UV intense light then there is NO way you are going to get a light bright enough to cause light magnification on an INDOOR plant using an INDOOR HID light. The most coming reason for indoor light burn 99% of the time is cause from the heat which gets more and more intense the closer the plant gets to it. No way your indoor plant will get burned from light being magnified thats an urban myth\. It has never happened to anyone.

Please tell me then why are there so many more people out there who have switched to 24/0 because they got better reults with NO dark?? I mean Cannabis as far as the indoor strains through many generations have adapted to less and lass light and pretty much thrives on the absence of dark

Spray your plants with a fine mist under HID lighting and see the results then.

What you are trying to assert that a plant, that is not burning in it's present location will start burning once water is added to it's foliage. From radiant heat. That's just nuts, why are you talking about UV? What has that to do with infra-red heat? You don't know anything.

Oh and Dr. Indica it isn't even known if Cannabis uses XY chromatids to determine sex.

Cannabis has been described as having one of the most complicated mechanisms of sex determination among the dioecious plants.

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Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species

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It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.

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Cannabis is predominantly dioecious,[15][60] although many monoecious varieties have been described.[61] Subdioecy (the occurrence of monoecious individuals and dioecious individuals within the same population) is widespread.[62][63][64] Many populations have been described as sexually labile.[48][65][66]

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[This stuff is just off wikipedia [with it's own references] and you guys can't even get that right? Your level of knowledge doesn't even extend past wikipedia? You don't actually have a doctorate in anything do you Dr.Indica? Jesus.]


Tell you what you can believe whatever you want to believe, and I will take my information from science.

I mean Cannabis as far as the indoor strains through many generations have adapted to less and lass light

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They haven't adapted they have been selectively bred - you can't even get that fundamental point right. Or if you truly meant "adapted" then you believe that a wild progeny can become indoor reliant naturally for the decades that it has been possible to cultivate indoors rather than the millions of years its had outside?


The self deluding capapbilities of some people is staggering.

I'm not saying anywhere you cannot grow dope 24/0, of course you can do it is a C3 plant everyone knows or should know that by now. What I am saying for various physiological reasons your crop will be of better quality if it has a dark period in any 24 hours even if it is just 15 minutes. But whatever; you can argue amongst yourselves as to what the answers are, they're already out there in botanical books. Just because some cannabis 'guru' says its ok to veg 24/0 suddenly the whole field of plant science counts for nought because these stoners know better. I'll bow out now as I really am not going to get sucked into an argument with someone who can't get adapted/selectively bred and uv/infra-red differences in their head.

Your level of knowledge doesn't even extend past wikipedia?

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Fortunately it does, keep your head in the book NEWBIE.....you know it all

You haven't proven anything by the way, you can keep trying though if you like.

Oh and Dr. Indica it isn't even known if Cannabis uses XY chromatids to determine sex.

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Guess you never heard of Feminized ?

This is hilarious

Acuity your making yourself look foolish

Where did you get this information from. Id like to read more from this author.

I am a CFL soil grower running 24/0. I supplement with CO2 tablets every few days.

greensister said:

Where did you get this information from. Id like to read more from this author.

I am a CFL soil grower running 24/0. I supplement with CO2 tablets every few days.

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I am the author.

duhba said:

Two veg tubs screened away from each other. One 24/0, other 18/6. hands down the latter works best. No noticable growth differentials and may I add not as much on the electric bill. Very very strong growth in both. Flours times 8t5's over both with h/o both spectrum mixed lights. Don't need anymore growth than getting with 18/6 and not much difference anyway... That is the debate settled period. Think whatever you like. This is proof!

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so you are NOT using a HID light(400-1000Watt MH or HPS)?

zebra said:

all this time i been putting in homemade co2 during dark period for nothing!!!

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DOH!

Very Interesting topic we have here,... Ummm,..I recently changed from 24/0 to 18/6 after 10 years of growing top quality plants and I have noticed major improvements. Before, my leaves never had that slight vertical look... Ya know, the look of health. Now because I went to 18/6 my plant looks way happier and growing much faster, even in soil. You cant mess with facts here. Maybe its my strain. I dont know. Im just saying my plants enjoy the break. and Im a firm Believer 18/6 works.

CLOSETGROWTH said:

Very Interesting topic we have here,... Ummm,..I recently changed from 24/0 to 18/6 after 10 years of growing top quality plants and I have noticed major improvements. Before, my leaves never had that slight vertical look... Ya know, the look of health. Now because I went to 18/6 my plant looks way happier and growing much faster, even in soil. You cant mess with facts here. Maybe its my strain. I dont know. Im just saying my plants enjoy the break. and Im a firm Believer 18/6 works.

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they had the "slight vertical look" because at night the plant is reaching out and looking for light that isnt there. Thats why 18/6 plants stretch more vertical and 24/0 plants will stretch more horizontal

mafuki said:

they had the "slight vertical look" because at night the plant is reaching out and looking for light that isnt there. Thats why 18/6 plants stretch more vertical and 24/0 plants will stretch more horizontal

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Sounds Logical,... but you would think the leaves would go back down and be more horizontal after a while after the plant gets its charge. Its like this all day long. I had HUGE plants back in the day in a basement grow. And the leaves stayed semi vertical all day long with 24 hours of light.. They were in prime condition. And so I know my current plants have established improved health since I switched to an 18 hour veg. cycle. Never seen em look so damn SEXY since the good ol' basement days.