2nd Grow 400 Watt SoG Magic Bud/Orange Bud

Hi all. First, I just want to thank all of the great contributors to this site. Without you guys, I would be sitting completely in the dark. Ok onto the grow. This is my second attempt at a grow. My first grow turned out pretty badly and I learned a lot, A LOT, from it. Luckily, I didnt put all of my seeds in one basket.

Set-up:

3 separate areas

DIY Clone and Germination Box
I just took a rubbermaid container, drilled a couple of holes in it and put in 2 plant grade flouro's I picked up at the local hydro shop. It works great and germination has sped up significantly. The clones in the cloner are Orange Bud that I had taken off of my mother plant before I killed her via over-nuting.







Vegetative Box
Again, a very cheap alternative to the grow tents, and it serves my purposes very well. It is a stainless steel bakers rack wrapped in 2 mil mylar. Lighting is 2x 65 watt 2700k CFL's, 2 x 43 Watt 2700k CFL's and 2x 43 Watt 6500k CFL's. This was my entire grow room for my first grow.







Flowering Room
Same set up as the veg-room, only I just got a 400 Watt HPS set-up today. Mylar, bakers rack, etc. The picture of the very sickly looking plant is a flowering Orange Bud. Keep in mind that I have made a lot of mistakes.







The Idea

Currently I have 3 Orange Bud (unknown sex) in the veg box (pictured). I have 5 Magic Bud Clones (females) that will be transferred to the flower room as soon as they root. 2 more Orange bud in grow plugs germinating and 1 magic Bud in Grow Plug Germinating. There are 2 more Magic Bud (female) in the dirt and one will be moved to veg probably tomorrow.









I also will post pictures of the flowering Magic bud I have. It is looking sickly but the bud sites are already covered in resin. The yellow leaves concern me though. I know that she is over watered right now because the pot weighs a lot and it shouldn't. This is only the second day under HPS for her so maybe that will help dry the soil more than the CFL's did.



Again, any comments are very welcome in the journal. thanks for stopping by.

im actually on my first grow but ph of 6.5 seems a little high maybe you should shoot for a slightly lower like 5.9-6.2 might help on nute uptake

whats your medium?

your veg room is has way too much light for that size of plants.
I used 1x45w CFL for around 2.5 square foot of space to veg in and they did fine. Some died from the cold as the CFL didn't put out close to enough heat to keep temps at bay. Also they were pretty slow as it is a small light for that size.
But using 5 times that light for a seedling is just killing it.

Until you get a 3rd node of true leaves on your plants 1x43W CFL should do. Then you could add a 65W until 4th node. Then go full strengh.
You waste a lot of energy as well. And you create quite a lot of heat for nothing.

Do you have proper air exhaust?
What do you use for air circulation?

)v(ad hater,

I dont know why I said 6.5, I looked back on the journal and saw that. It is PH neutral and my tap is around 6.5, I use the PH down to bring it down to 5.8. Thanks for the comment.

McFonz,

My medium is Fox Farm Ocean Forest with 15% Perlite for drainage. As far as the light in the veg room goes, I understand that people veg under 400 watt MH as soon as they see green. I have never had problems in the past under these lights as far as over lighting them.

Air from both rooms is exhausted to the garage, there are fans behind each grow area pulling in fresh air, and behind me as the camera is taking the picture there are exhaust fans.

You are most likely correct on being able to turn a couple off to save on power for now. Thanks for the comments.

EDIT:
Thats a lot of reading I guess. Figured it out after posting.
Sorry if I pointed the obvious in some times but I find all of what I wrote essential to the understanding of what goes after it.


In soil you really shouldn't use a PH of 5.8.
Just a tad lower than that and big troubles start.

The optimal PH for soil grows for most strains is 6.5.
Fertilize build ups, mainly high N fertilizers, tend to lower the PH when used. As water evaporates \ being used the fertilize gets more concentrated and lower the PH further.
I like using a solution with a PH of 6.65-6.8.


People can do all sorts of stuff. I like to veg under 400w as well, even seedlings.
BUT.
A 400W is a lot of light for seedling if put close. If you grow a whole lot of plants over a large space you could just higher the 400W until the light penetration (which is what counts) is right for the plants.
Using a single light is more comfortable than using loads of CFLs. At least for me.

I don't know many people who used a 400W MH close (my definition of close with 400w is 5") to a seedling and had great success.

Its not overlightning alone that affects the plants, its the radiant heat the light produce, temps rising, much quicker drying of the upper part of the soil which damage the fregile taproot.
You seedling doesn't need that.

Plus, its a waste of money.

I said that based on previous trails. I did it both ways. For a seedling without true leaves you don't need anything more than a 18W daylight CFL at 4-5" away.



Do you have any fan working to move air around?
I always try to make enough air movement for my plants to gently shake regularly.

Thats important for several reasons:
1. If the plant moves it thickens its stems. Later on that means that it can move more nutrients. And it can support more bud weight without falling.
2. Leaves use up the air around them. After an emount of time I can't recall right now but no higher than 10 minutes the leave is using all the CO2 around it. Then it does nothing.
If you don't move air around enough the leave doesn't get enough CO2 to photosynthesys. (I doubt I wrote it right)
Making the leaves shake a bit makes them change the air around them by moving it themselves.
3. Mold and pests really dislike it. Never had problems with them when had enough air flow.

You could use a revolving fan on the wall to cover a large space or place how many needed to give constant wind to the plants.


Another rule that should be considered when thinking about air circulation is that heat travels up.
If you need to heat up your room make air come from the top and suck it out from a low point.
If you need to cool the room push air up from the floor.

To control heat in my grow room on my last grow I put a fan on the floor pointing up from between the plants on 2\3 power most of the time. 3\3 at the end of flowering.
It got the temps around 5°C lower!
Currently I put my exhaust from the veg room (that gets air from the outside) over the light to heat up the flowering room. My veg room is very well ventilated and no the CO2 used by the 4 mother plants I got there is VERY minimal considering the air change.
It gets me the same temps while moving much more air and saving on operating the 12" revolving fan I usually use.


Hope I was of any help, McFonz.

McFonz,

Thank you so much for the reply. I have read a lot but I am by no means an expert in this arena. I will move the large CFL away from the plants and turn the rest off.

As far as the PH goes, I have dumped all of my water and started over adjusting PH to 6.5. I never take any posts on here at face value, I research the heck out of it and then form my decision. Nothing against the posters, I just want the best for my grow. I found in several resources that 6.5 for soil, 5.5-5.8 for hydro. I just assumed the hydro, so thank you for the solid advice. I do really appreciate it.

I'm glad i've helped you

Put your CFL 5" from the seedlings. If its not enough intensity they will strech a bit and get to where they like it.

Note that the PH should be measured in the soil, not in the solution.

4 Seedlings are now in the veg room. Clones are looking very sad now. I think that I am going to go with bubbler cloning next time I get a mother going. What do you guys use for coning? I used FFOF for the first grow and was successful with 3 of the 5 cuttings. The next clones I took died almost immediately due to overwatering. This was the last set of clones from that plant, I cut 10 and I have 5 left and 2 of those are looking very pathetic.

Let me explain my process so that maybe you guys could assist? Maybe?

1st I cut the clones from the mother. Razor Blade sterilized in alcohol. Immediately dipped the clones into Rootech and placed them into soil. Well after about 2 weeks I learned from my grow shop that Ocean Forest could burn and potentially kill the cuttings. They suggested grow plugs. I came straight home and pulled the cuttings from the soil. I rinsed them in PH balanced water and placed them into the grow plugs. Some were still very healthy so I left them alone, but the ones that I thought looked bad I recut on a bias and re applied Rootech.

So, how do you guys do the clones?

I clip a branch with 2-3 nodes with my spring scissors \ utility knife, dip it in the 5phed water my jiffy swole in, put them in a rooting powder, then into the jiffy and shut the jiffy around them.
I trim the tips of the large leaves.
Then i place them inside 2 clear plastic cups and tape them together. I poke a small hole at the top to allow air exchange.

If temps are right (around 28°C) they root in a week.

you know your doing it right if you see drops of humidity on your dome all the time.


If you don't have any holes in your dome you should remove the dome for 1\2 hour a day.

Seedlings are looking good. Very healthy and developing a good root structure. I have had problems with this before and I think that I have this part under control now. There are now a total of 5 seedlings in the veg room. 2 magic bud (feminized) and 3 Orange bud (unknown). What do you guys think?











I have also attached another picture of the magic bud I have in flower under 400 watt hps. She is looking rough right now. Any suggestions?



Also, approximatly when do you guys transplant your seedlings? I dont want to end up with root bindings but I also dont want to stress them for no reason. As always, thanks for taking a look and feel free to make any comments.

I transplant them when they can hold the medium when picked.

As for your flowering plant.
First check the PH. it should be from 5.8 to 7.2. In the soil.
If its fine your should seriously add some N to the solution. also check for bud rot.