2nd try: DWC + LED

K

k4n4m3s

Member
Hello everyone,
After my 1st experience ( and 1st fail ) with DWC and HPS, I decided to switch to LED and added another bucket to the system.

My Setup:
60cm*60cm*180cm
BESTVA 1000W LED
Bucket Size: 18L
Water in Bucket: 15L
GreenLab ( Israeli Organic Premium nut )
Temp room: 21c-24c
Temp Water: 19c-21c
Humidity: 40%-45%
PH: 6.0-+ ( Balance every day to 6.0 )
PPM after nut + calmag : 520ppm-550ppm

Okay, so right now I have 2 Dark Purple Auto plants two and a half weeks old from the moment they sprouted.
But I noticed that the growth is slower compared to the previous growth under the HPS lamp.
I also noticed a certain distortion of leaves, as you can see in the pictures.


Anyone know what the problem is?
Is there any lack of water? Calcium? Magnesium?
It should be noted that I do not have a reverse osmosis system, I use desalinated tap water (300ppm).
In my previous plant I grew under an HPS lamp I reached with it levels of 1200ppm after fertilizers and additives.

I know I have a general water problem, my question is are the distortions and yellowing of the leaves a direct result of the water problem or is it more related to a lighting / moisture / excess fertilizer problem?

1.jpeg2.jpeg3.jpeg4.jpeg
 
My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
Few things I noticed in your data if you want to dial it in.

I won't comment on your LED, just that LED requires warmer temps for optimal performance. Temps would be better 78-84ish F.

Allow your ph to swing a little bit. 5.8 is baseline, allow it to go to 6.2-6.3ish before bringing it back down.

Bring your humidity up to 60%ish given the stage of growth your plants are in.

Easy on the nutes. Give your plant a chance to grow a decent root system before cranking your nutes up to 500+. If you're using tap, your water should have plenty cal.

Few follow up Qs:

Where is your water level at in the rez? Give me some approx.

What is your PH of your water without nutes?

What's the order you mix your nutes?

Have the roots grown through the clay or not yet? Are they touching the water?
 
K

k4n4m3s

Member
My Name is Mike said:
Few things I noticed in your data if you want to dial it in.

I won't comment on your LED, just that LED requires warmer temps for optimal performance. Temps would be better 78-84ish F.

Allow your ph to swing a little bit. 5.8 is baseline, allow it to go to 6.2-6.3ish before bringing it back down.

Bring your humidity up to 60%ish given the stage of growth your plants are in.

Easy on the nutes. Give your plant a chance to grow a decent root system before cranking your nutes up to 500+. If you're using tap, your water should have plenty cal.

Few follow up Qs:

Where is your water level at in the rez? Give me some approx.

What is your PH of your water without nutes?

What's the order you mix your nutes?

Have the roots grown through the clay or not yet? Are they touching the water?
Click to expand...
Thx for comment bro.

About Water level in the bucket in start: 15 Liters
About Water PH before nuts: 7.5ph but i'm balance to 6.0ph before nuts and adds.
For now i'm using Grow fert + Calmag.

Information from the manufacturer's website:


The flagship fertilizer from GreenLab is a premium fertilizer that was developed for growing medicinal plants. In collaboration with Zalmanson fertilizers
fertilizer tested farms in various European countries and the United States and is considered to fertilize an advanced, professional and easy placement.
Fertilizer GreenLab Perfect Grow is designed for growth and contains all the minerals needed for the plant at this stage,
as well GreenLab Perfect Grow contains acids mummies Flavio Organic improve the uptake The minerals and protect the plant in stressful situations.GreenLab
- Premium food is a 3-part series, each part of which is suitable for a different growth stage:
growth, flowering and ripening
7.3.5 + 6% microcalt + 1% daily and folic acid.
Click to expand...
I added the fertilization table to the post ( All data are per ml per liter )

As for the roots, they still do not touch the water and I have a feeling I am missing some water. Because last time I put the rock wool in the bottom of the net over a thin layer of hydroton. This time I put the rock wool on top of the net after about 4 layers of hydroton. I immediately thought about the fact that I was missing water, and added another 2 liters of balanced water to each bucket.

By the way, I replaced the LED to this:
a.aliexpress.com

24.03C$ 48% OFF|Led Grow Light 800w Samsung Lm281b+ Diodes Quiet Fanless Full Spectrum Grow Light High Ppfd For 5x5ft Coverage, Veg And Blooming - Growing Lamps - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
a.aliexpress.com a.aliexpress.com

1617313334539.png
TABLE.jpeg
 
Last edited:
My Name is Mike

My Name is Mike

Well-Known Member
k4n4m3s said:
Thx for comment bro.

About Water level in the bucket in start: 15 Liters
About Water PH before nuts: 7.5ph but i'm balance to 6.0ph before nuts and adds.
For now i'm using Grow fert + Calmag.

Information from the manufacturer's website:




I added the fertilization table to the post ( All data are per ml per liter )

As for the roots, they still do not touch the water and I have a feeling I am missing some water. Because last time I put the rock wool in the bottom of the net over a thin layer of hydroton. This time I put the rock wool on top of the net after about 4 layers of hydroton. I immediately thought about the fact that I was missing water, and added another 2 liters of balanced water to each bucket.

By the way, I replaced the LED to this:
a.aliexpress.com

24.03C$ 48% OFF|Led Grow Light 800w Samsung Lm281b+ Diodes Quiet Fanless Full Spectrum Grow Light High Ppfd For 5x5ft Coverage, Veg And Blooming - Growing Lamps - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
a.aliexpress.com a.aliexpress.com

View attachment 4868368
View attachment 4868365
Click to expand...
Water level I meant where does it sit in conjunction with the bottom of your hydroton net? The water level should be right underneath the bottom of your net.

Are you watering them at all? Without roots touching the water, they are not pulling in any h20 or nutes. Give the hydroton a spritz of water, careful not to get the leaves.

It wouldn’t hurt if you have an airstone. This will help oxygenate your water and the bubbles will burst when they hit the surface which can hit your roots and promote faster growth.

Aside from all mentioned already, ph to 5.8. This gives you a better baseline range.
 
K

k4n4m3s

Member
My Name is Mike said:
Water level I meant where does it sit in conjunction with the bottom of your hydroton net? The water level should be right underneath the bottom of your net.

Are you watering them at all? Without roots touching the water, they are not pulling in any h20 or nutes. Give the hydroton a spritz of water, careful not to get the leaves.

It wouldn’t hurt if you have an airstone. This will help oxygenate your water and the bubbles will burst when they hit the surface which can hit your roots and promote faster growth.

Aside from all mentioned already, ph to 5.8. This gives you a better baseline range.
Click to expand...
thanks for the reply!

First of all, Before 2 days, i replaced the LED lamp to this:

Samsung LM281b+ Diodes Quiet Fanless Full Spectrum 600W LED Grow Light High PPFD for 2x3FT Tent for Seedling, Veg and Blooming

a.aliexpress.com

24.03C$ 48% OFF|Led Grow Light 800w Samsung Lm281b+ Diodes Quiet Fanless Full Spectrum Grow Light High Ppfd For 5x5ft Coverage, Veg And Blooming - Growing Lamps - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
a.aliexpress.com a.aliexpress.com

Regarding the water level, my bucket contains 18 liters - I started with 15 liters and added another 2 liters after a day because it seemed to me that it was missing.

At that time no roots developed beyond the hydroton or the bottom of the net.

I have added pictures that explain exactly how much I fill the bucket.

1.jpeg2.jpeg3.jpeg


As for airstones, I have an air stone in every bucket.

As for the PH, I try to balance daily in the range of 5.8-6.0 in each bucket.

I noticed today that there is a kind of stain the 2 leaves in one of the pots.
What causes it? Could it be because the last time I added growth fertilizer, calmag and enzyme supplement? For now, they have only balance water ( 280ppm / 5.8ph )


4.jpeg5.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Tasman69

Tasman69

Active Member
Hey bro , I think ya babies havent taken off because the roots aren't into the nice bubbly water yet , I use a home made bin with an old auto pot fitted into it so the water level always remains the same , usually half way up the wick so my babies feet a definitely immersed when their transplanted . Also i keep the nutes around 500ppm for the first week or so until they look robust . Perhaps ya wanna clone or seed house them for a bit longer before ya dwc them.SSH.jpg
 
kratosxxl

kratosxxl

Well-Known Member
k4n4m3s said:
Hello everyone,
After my 1st experience ( and 1st fail ) with DWC and HPS, I decided to switch to LED and added another bucket to the system.

My Setup:
60cm*60cm*180cm
BESTVA 1000W LED
Bucket Size: 18L
Water in Bucket: 15L
GreenLab ( Israeli Organic Premium nut )
Temp room: 21c-24c
Temp Water: 19c-21c
Humidity: 40%-45%
PH: 6.0-+ ( Balance every day to 6.0 )
PPM after nut + calmag : 520ppm-550ppm

Okay, so right now I have 2 Dark Purple Auto plants two and a half weeks old from the moment they sprouted.
But I noticed that the growth is slower compared to the previous growth under the HPS lamp.
I also noticed a certain distortion of leaves, as you can see in the pictures.


Anyone know what the problem is?
Is there any lack of water? Calcium? Magnesium?
It should be noted that I do not have a reverse osmosis system, I use desalinated tap water (300ppm).
In my previous plant I grew under an HPS lamp I reached with it levels of 1200ppm after fertilizers and additives.

I know I have a general water problem, my question is are the distortions and yellowing of the leaves a direct result of the water problem or is it more related to a lighting / moisture / excess fertilizer problem?

View attachment 4868059View attachment 4868060View attachment 4868061View attachment 4868062
Click to expand...
Agree on humidity 60 % , also organic in dwc not a good idea even if u have a chiller, salt based only , if u cant keep water temps below 70 F (preferably 66-67) hydroguard or SAG will help a bit but those comes after u have roots in a bucket, also the higher water temps less Oxygene is available so add airs tones, top feed then every other day , aslo ppm at this stage should be around 250-300 but since ur tap is already 300 go light on nutes.
 
Failmore

Failmore

Well-Known Member
Organic nutes are designed to feed the bacteria in the soil.

Salt based nutes are designed to feed the plant.

Have to agree with what was previously said. Need to switch up the nutes. Plants have nothing to eat.
 
K

k4n4m3s

Member
Update after 2 weeks:


1618505244930.png1618505298688.png

Temp: with lights/day: 22c-26c ; without lights/night: 17c-20c
PH balanced once a day to 5.8
PPM with nutes: 700-850

and about my nutes - its not organic nuts, its oragnic-mineral nuts - they fill:

nute for grow:

N 7%,P 3%, P 5 %
Chilated Microelements 6%
Humic & Fulvic Acid 1%
 
K

k4n4m3s

Member
k4n4m3s said:
Update after 2 weeks:


View attachment 4879487View attachment 4879489

Room Temp: with lights/day: 22c-26c ; without lights/night: 17c-20c
PH balanced once a day to 5.8
PPM with nutes: 700-850

and about my nutes - its not organic nuts, its oragnic-mineral nuts - they fill:

nute for grow:

N 7%,P 3%, P 5 %
Chilated Microelements 6%
Humic & Fulvic Acid 1%
Click to expand...
My Water temp: 20c-23c, switch water once a week (Start details: PH 5.8 / grow fert / tap water / 500ppm-600ppm )
 
Last edited:
shiva71

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Are the roots in the water yet? They look like they should be. In which case stop worrying, they will start growing like crazy. 500-600ppm is very high for such small plants, you may well burn them with that strong juice. If your ppm is dropping from one day to another, fine, bump it up gradually but if it rises then you need to drop it down to 400 or so.
 
K

k4n4m3s

Member
shiva71 said:
Are the roots in the water yet? They look like they should be. In which case stop worrying, they will start growing like crazy. 500-600ppm is very high for such small plants, you may well burn them with that strong juice. If your ppm is dropping from one day to another, fine, bump it up gradually but if it rises then you need to drop it down to 400 or so.
Click to expand...
I do not have reverse osmosis.
I use desalinated tap water, I get water from the tap in the range 250ppm-400ppm.
To this I add fertilizer, calcium and magnesium and pH balance, total final range is 700ppm-850ppm.

As for the roots, in each seedling a root or two developed in the water.
There is currently no strong root base in water.
 
Last edited:
shiva71

shiva71

Well-Known Member
k4n4m3s said:
I do not have reverse osmosis.
I use desalinated tap water, I get water from the tap in the range 250ppm-400ppm.
To this I add fertilizer, calcium and magnesium and pH balance, total final range is 700ppm-850ppm.

As for the roots, in each seedling a root or two developed in the water.
There is currently no strong root base in water.
Click to expand...
You need to be getting h20 to the hydroton. I always have the water level above the bottom of the net pot. I also have a small aquarium pump watering the hydroton from the rez, 5 mins 3/4 times a day. You see many people with problems at this stage, growth grinds to a halt because the seedling isn't getting enough h20. I only drop water level below the bottom of the netpot when there is a good amount of roots sticking out.
 
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