2x4 tent: ChilLED Growcraft X3 (330W) or...?

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
I just ordered my first tent (2x4) and now need to decide on a light. Only criteria I really had was it be made in the US, so ChilLED, HLG, and Grow Light Science have been at the top of the list - but I keep coming back to ChilLED.
Before I pull the trigger, is there anything else I should consider? Scynce? Rapid?
As a first time grower, would the Growcraft Ultra 330W be overkill?

Appreciate any input; thanks!
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
I just ordered my first tent (2x4) and now need to decide on a light. Only criteria I really had was it be made in the US, so ChilLED, HLG, and Grow Light Science have been at the top of the list - but I keep coming back to ChilLED.
Before I pull the trigger, is there anything else I should consider? Scynce? Rapid?
As a first time grower, would the Growcraft Ultra 330W be overkill?

Appreciate any input; thanks!
Setting aside the Kind that I used in 2017, I use Growcraft lights now. Last Spring, I bought a Mars SP 3000 and it was a good light but Growcraft had a 10% off and I got an X3 full cycle//flower light. I also bought an X2 veg light. The Growcraft generates a lot of light, the driver dismounts, it's very well engineered, and it's very well made. Another selling point is that it uses push lock connectors so it's very easy to install and it takes, realistically, less than two minutes to swap the veg light out for the flower light.

I hadn't looked at the Progrow 320 until now and it's got a lot going for it (I have looked at the Grow 300 and I wouldn't consider buying it). The Progrow looks to be a good product and the PPFD map at 20" is excellent but I wasn't able to find any other PPFD maps. The Progrow is $419 vs the Growcraft at $650, a not insignificant amount, and I suspect that part of the difference is in engineering (they Growcrafts run very cool) and the components - the Progrow diodes and driver are not specified whereas Chilled goes to the expense of Samsung diodes and a Mean Well driver. Are they worth the extra cost? Apparently the market thinks so.

After just a quick review, it seems that the Progrow is a good light and a good value at $420 and, though I'm admittedly biased, I believe the X3 and X6 mini are excellent lights (I would buy the X6 mini if I were in the market) and a good value

Is the Ultra overkill? To my way of thinking, it's a great light if you're using CO2 but if not, the Ultra would be a lot of unused potential since without CO2, cannabis, generally speaking, can't use > 1000± µmols. The X6 mini doesn't have the incredible output of the Ultra but I suspect that it has the best light output (PPFD and uniformity) in the 2' x 4' class.

The HLG 300 lights aren't in the same category as the Growcraft lights, in terms of features or price, admittedly. They're a board light, which is an antiquated design, and their light output is is markedly lower than the Growcraft. Interestingly, I don't see a mention of being able to dismount the driver. Most concerning for me it uniformity of HLG lights. I can't find data for the 300 series but the light output for all HLG's shown at ppfdcharts.com indicates that the lights have a hot spot in the center which delivers a very high level of light in the center and a paucity of light in the corners. Neither their fundamental design or the value proposition of HLG lights has changed in the year and a half since I've been in the market for grow lights so I still don't consider them contenders.

The Ultra vs the X3 vs the x6 mini - The Ultra is stunning. If you've got the budget, got for it. The only reason I can think of to get an X3 is that if you can reach down through the top of the light to get to the canopy. You can't do that because the bars in the X6 are so close together but the X6 has more light and a better PPFD map.
 

Isawthelight

Well-Known Member
Setting aside the Kind that I used in 2017, I use Growcraft lights now. Last Spring, I bought a Mars SP 3000 and it was a good light but Growcraft had a 10% off and I got an X3 full cycle//flower light. I also bought an X2 veg light. The Growcraft generates a lot of light, the driver dismounts, it's very well engineered, and it's very well made. Another selling point is that it uses push lock connectors so it's very easy to install and it takes, realistically, less than two minutes to swap the veg light out for the flower light.

I hadn't looked at the Progrow 320 until now and it's got a lot going for it (I have looked at the Grow 300 and I wouldn't consider buying it). The Progrow looks to be a good product and the PPFD map at 20" is excellent but I wasn't able to find any other PPFD maps. The Progrow is $419 vs the Growcraft at $650, a not insignificant amount, and I suspect that part of the difference is in engineering (they Growcrafts run very cool) and the components - the Progrow diodes and driver are not specified whereas Chilled goes to the expense of Samsung diodes and a Mean Well driver. Are they worth the extra cost? Apparently the market thinks so.

After just a quick review, it seems that the Progrow is a good light and a good value at $420 and, though I'm admittedly biased, I believe the X3 and X6 mini are excellent lights (I would buy the X6 mini if I were in the market) and a good value

Is the Ultra overkill? To my way of thinking, it's a great light if you're using CO2 but if not, the Ultra would be a lot of unused potential since without CO2, cannabis, generally speaking, can't use > 1000± µmols. The X6 mini doesn't have the incredible output of the Ultra but I suspect that it has the best light output (PPFD and uniformity) in the 2' x 4' class.

The HLG 300 lights aren't in the same category as the Growcraft lights, in terms of features or price, admittedly. They're a board light, which is an antiquated design, and their light output is is markedly lower than the Growcraft. Interestingly, I don't see a mention of being able to dismount the driver. Most concerning for me it uniformity of HLG lights. I can't find data for the 300 series but the light output for all HLG's shown at ppfdcharts.com indicates that the lights have a hot spot in the center which delivers a very high level of light in the center and a paucity of light in the corners. Neither their fundamental design or the value proposition of HLG lights has changed in the year and a half since I've been in the market for grow lights so I still don't consider them contenders.

The Ultra vs the X3 vs the x6 mini - The Ultra is stunning. If you've got the budget, got for it. The only reason I can think of to get an X3 is that if you can reach down through the top of the light to get to the canopy. You can't do that because the bars in the X6 are so close together but the X6 has more light and a better PPFD map.
I bought the Progrow 320 for $295 during their "up to25% off sale". June 2022 MSRP was $395. Would not buy it if it isn't on sale. Today's price of $449 is
.
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
Setting aside the Kind that I used in 2017, I use Growcraft lights now. Last Spring, I bought a Mars SP 3000 and it was a good light but Growcraft had a 10% off and I got an X3 full cycle//flower light. I also bought an X2 veg light. The Growcraft generates a lot of light, the driver dismounts, it's very well engineered, and it's very well made. Another selling point is that it uses push lock connectors so it's very easy to install and it takes, realistically, less than two minutes to swap the veg light out for the flower light.

I hadn't looked at the Progrow 320 until now and it's got a lot going for it (I have looked at the Grow 300 and I wouldn't consider buying it). The Progrow looks to be a good product and the PPFD map at 20" is excellent but I wasn't able to find any other PPFD maps. The Progrow is $419 vs the Growcraft at $650, a not insignificant amount, and I suspect that part of the difference is in engineering (they Growcrafts run very cool) and the components - the Progrow diodes and driver are not specified whereas Chilled goes to the expense of Samsung diodes and a Mean Well driver. Are they worth the extra cost? Apparently the market thinks so.

After just a quick review, it seems that the Progrow is a good light and a good value at $420 and, though I'm admittedly biased, I believe the X3 and X6 mini are excellent lights (I would buy the X6 mini if I were in the market) and a good value

Is the Ultra overkill? To my way of thinking, it's a great light if you're using CO2 but if not, the Ultra would be a lot of unused potential since without CO2, cannabis, generally speaking, can't use > 1000± µmols. The X6 mini doesn't have the incredible output of the Ultra but I suspect that it has the best light output (PPFD and uniformity) in the 2' x 4' class.

The HLG 300 lights aren't in the same category as the Growcraft lights, in terms of features or price, admittedly. They're a board light, which is an antiquated design, and their light output is is markedly lower than the Growcraft. Interestingly, I don't see a mention of being able to dismount the driver. Most concerning for me it uniformity of HLG lights. I can't find data for the 300 series but the light output for all HLG's shown at ppfdcharts.com indicates that the lights have a hot spot in the center which delivers a very high level of light in the center and a paucity of light in the corners. Neither their fundamental design or the value proposition of HLG lights has changed in the year and a half since I've been in the market for grow lights so I still don't consider them contenders.

The Ultra vs the X3 vs the x6 mini - The Ultra is stunning. If you've got the budget, got for it. The only reason I can think of to get an X3 is that if you can reach down through the top of the light to get to the canopy. You can't do that because the bars in the X6 are so close together but the X6 has more light and a better PPFD map.
thanks for the insight; I'll need to reach out to ChilLED and see if they recommend one over the other - and why.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
thanks for the insight; I'll need to reach out to ChilLED and see if they recommend one over the other - and why.
Good idea.

On his YouTube channel, the grower who runs ppfdcharts.com (I think it's "LEDGardener") has a discount code for Chilled and you might want to check cocoforcannabis.com for a discount code, as well. IIRC, they will get you 5% off.

DIY vs Commercial - the warranty on commercial is 5 years vs 3 for DIY. Also, the DIY light doesn't have purhlocks. Most important of all, the commercial light has full color decals but the DIY decals are monochrome. ;-)
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
Good idea.

On his YouTube channel, the grower who runs ppfdcharts.com (I think it's "LEDGardener") has a discount code for Chilled and you might want to check cocoforcannabis.com for a discount code, as well. IIRC, they will get you 5% off.

DIY vs Commercial - the warranty on commercial is 5 years vs 3 for DIY. Also, the DIY light doesn't have purhlocks. Most important of all, the commercial light has full color decals but the DIY decals are monochrome. ;-)
the first-time hobbyist in me knows the full color decals will probably add 10% to the yield, but the collector in me suspects the DIY monochrome will be worth more on eBay
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
From ChilLED when asked about the differences between the X6 Mini and the X3 (330w):

One advantage of the X3-330W is the ability to swap out the 330W driver later down the road should you decide to increase your growing space from a 2X4 to a 3X5 and have adequate power to handle the space. In this instance, you can install a 500W power driver and be up and running. This cannot be done with the X6 mini due to what the mini bars can handle. For those looking for a full cycle with option for greater use, I tend to advocate for the X3-330W.

Their customer service team replied to my inquiry within ten minutes - something I'll defiantly keep in mind when making my final decision.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
From ChilLED when asked about the differences between the X6 Mini and the X3 (330w):

One advantage of the X3-330W is the ability to swap out the 330W driver later down the road should you decide to increase your growing space from a 2X4 to a 3X5 and have adequate power to handle the space. In this instance, you can install a 500W power driver and be up and running. This cannot be done with the X6 mini due to what the mini bars can handle. For those looking for a full cycle with option for greater use, I tend to advocate for the X3-330W.

Their customer service team replied to my inquiry within ten minutes - something I'll defiantly keep in mind when making my final decision.
Ah, good info. I didn't realize that about the mini.

This isn't strictly in Chilled's ballpark but it involves their lights - I talked to Chilled (the guy on the phones is named "Dean") about creating a digital dimmer for the X3. Chilled doesn't make one for specifically for the X3 and their dimmer solution is their controller system but that's overkill for a home grower like me. An alternative is to go with a controller from AC Infinity and use their dongle. The dongle that they have for Chilled lights works with just two drivers, one of which is the 480H-48B which is in the 500 watt version of the X3.

I use two 6 port Kasa Smart Strips in my tent and they give power readings for each of the ports. When I want to change the PPFD in the tent, it's handy to just change the wattage on the light. The driver is located outside of the tent and I can't easily take a PPFD reading and change the dimmer setting at the same time. Instead, I change the power setting on the dimmer, check the wattage in the Kasa app on my iPhone, and then check the PPFD value in the tent. It's a bit of a PITA to turn the dimmer just a tad (a "tad" is a bit less than a "skosh") to try to get the right wattage setting and it would be a hell of a lot easier with the 500 watt X3 + the Controller 69 + the dongle.

I don't know if you want to put that much $$ into automation/remote control but, for me, the $$ on the Controller 69 + the Smart Strips + the PulseOne + the Inkbird controllers ("Hotbird" for controlling temperature and "Wetbird" and "Tlaloc" for humidity) is money well spent because it allows me to control almost every aspect of the tent remotely.
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
Ah, good info. I didn't realize that about the mini.

This isn't strictly in Chilled's ballpark but it involves their lights - I talked to Chilled (the guy on the phones is named "Dean") about creating a digital dimmer for the X3. Chilled doesn't make one for specifically for the X3 and their dimmer solution is their controller system but that's overkill for a home grower like me. An alternative is to go with a controller from AC Infinity and use their dongle. The dongle that they have for Chilled lights works with just two drivers, one of which is the 480H-48B which is in the 500 watt version of the X3.

I use two 6 port Kasa Smart Strips in my tent and they give power readings for each of the ports. When I want to change the PPFD in the tent, it's handy to just change the wattage on the light. The driver is located outside of the tent and I can't easily take a PPFD reading and change the dimmer setting at the same time. Instead, I change the power setting on the dimmer, check the wattage in the Kasa app on my iPhone, and then check the PPFD value in the tent. It's a bit of a PITA to turn the dimmer just a tad (a "tad" is a bit less than a "skosh") to try to get the right wattage setting and it would be a hell of a lot easier with the 500 watt X3 + the Controller 69 + the dongle.

I don't know if you want to put that much $$ into automation/remote control but, for me, the $$ on the Controller 69 + the Smart Strips + the PulseOne + the Inkbird controllers ("Hotbird" for controlling temperature and "Wetbird" and "Tlaloc" for humidity) is money well spent because it allows me to control almost every aspect of the tent remotely.
I reached out to confirm the X3 500w would work with the ACI controller - provided the appropriate ACI/Chil adapters are used. Certainly don't mind paying a bit more for convenience - but unsure if 500w is overkill for 2x4 (could I just turn down and improve efficiency?).

Also - looks like the X6 Mini is about three inches wider than the X3, most likely due to the design. Leaning towards the X3 as it will fit better in the 2x4 tent that was just delivered.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
I reached out to confirm the X3 500w would work with the ACI controller - provided the appropriate ACI/Chil adapters are used. Certainly don't mind paying a bit more for convenience - but unsure if 500w is overkill for 2x4 (could I just turn down and improve efficiency?).
Interesting how things work out with the two lights. The PPFD values below are for a 2' x 4' area in the center of the light cast meaning PPFD values for the 500 watt light do not represent the full 3' x 5' area. Undoubtedly, the additional wattage will generate higher readings if the 500 watt light were used in a 2' x 4' tent due to the reflective walls.
In the data below, the 500 watt light will generate about 5% more light but the 320 watt light is more uniform.

1665771121853.png

This is the text for the above data:

PPFD Values Average StDev ∆% from Center Reading
500 watt 702 868 980 1030 1030 980 868 702 895 119 39% 24% 14% 10% 10% 14% 24% 39%
753 962 1098 1145 1145 1098 962 753 990 142 34% 16% 4% 0% 0% 4% 16% 34%
753 962 1098 1145 1145 1098 962 753 990 142 34% 16% 4% 0% 0% 4% 16% 34%
702 868 980 1030 1030 980 868 702 895 119 39% 24% 14% 10% 10% 14% 24% 39%
Average 728 915 1039 1088 1088 1039 915 728 942
StDev 29 54 68 66 66 68 54 29

320 watt 677 823 928 970 970 925 823 677 849 106 36% 22% 13% 9% 9% 13% 22% 36%
764 915 1015 1061 1061 1015 915 764 939 107 28% 14% 4% 0% 0% 4% 14% 28%
764 915 1015 1061 1061 1015 915 764 939 107 28% 14% 4% 0% 0% 4% 14% 28%
677 823 925 970 970 925 823 677 849 106 36% 22% 13% 9% 9% 13% 22% 36%
Average 721 869 971 1016 1016 970 869 721 894
StDev 50 53 51 53 53 52 53 50

∆ µmols 500 vs 300 25 45 52 60 60 55 45 25 46
-11 47 83 84 84 83 47 -11 51
-11 47 83 84 84 83 47 -11 51
25 45 55 60 60 55 45 25 46
Average 7 46 68 72 72 69 46 7

∆% µmols 500 vs 300 4% 5% 5% 6% 6% 6% 5% 4% 5%
-1% 5% 8% 7% 7% 8% 5% -1% 5%
-1% 5% 8% 7% 7% 8% 5% -1% 5%
4% 5% 6% 6% 6% 6% 5% 4% 5%
Average 1% 5% 7% 7% 7% 7% 5% 1%

Data source:
https://tinyurl.com/2s425x7j
https://tinyurl.com/2mca59t6

The efficiency difference would be that you're running the 500 watt driver at a lower input amperage. I'm not an EE but the "history major" part of my brain tells me that a 500 watt driver at 300 watts, for arguments' sake, will last longer than a 320 watt driver at 300 watts. Having said that, I would expect that the service life of the 320 watt driver is many years.


Also - looks like the X6 Mini is about three inches wider than the X3, most likely due to the design. Leaning towards the X3 as it will fit better in the 2x4 tent that was just delivered.
Congrats on the new tent.

You won't go wrong with either light. A key factor for going with either light has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Growcraft. Not that I would buy one but one thing in common between Chilled and HLG is that they're among the few manufacturers that sell a veg light and a flower light. That's important because blue light is great for growing plants that are short and compact but it hammers yield. Bugbee talks about this in some of his videos and it's here in a case study on the Apogee site:

"Through the three different trials, they found that as the percent of blue photons increased from 4 to 20%, flower yield decreased by 12.3%. This means that flower yield increased by 0.77% per 1% decrease in blue photons. However, it is thought that far-red photons also played a small part in the 12% decrease. Additionally, the blue photon fraction had no effect on final cannabinoid concentration."

Growcraft "full cycle" (ie flower) lights have a small percentage of blue in them. I believe that it was in a Bugbee video that some amount of blue was needed in flower to avoid deformed plants however, as cited above, blue light does have the effect of reducing yield. Almost all LED grow lights have significant amounts of blue in their spectrum and that means that growers are losing about ⅛ of their potential yield. Ouch.
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
Interesting how things work out with the two lights. The PPFD values below are for a 2' x 4' area in the center of the light cast meaning PPFD values for the 500 watt light do not represent the full 3' x 5' area. Undoubtedly, the additional wattage will generate higher readings if the 500 watt light were used in a 2' x 4' tent due to the reflective walls.
In the data below, the 500 watt light will generate about 5% more light but the 320 watt light is more uniform.

View attachment 5212533

This is the text for the above data:

PPFD Values Average StDev ∆% from Center Reading
500 watt 702 868 980 1030 1030 980 868 702 895 119 39% 24% 14% 10% 10% 14% 24% 39%
753 962 1098 1145 1145 1098 962 753 990 142 34% 16% 4% 0% 0% 4% 16% 34%
753 962 1098 1145 1145 1098 962 753 990 142 34% 16% 4% 0% 0% 4% 16% 34%
702 868 980 1030 1030 980 868 702 895 119 39% 24% 14% 10% 10% 14% 24% 39%
Average 728 915 1039 1088 1088 1039 915 728 942
StDev 29 54 68 66 66 68 54 29

320 watt 677 823 928 970 970 925 823 677 849 106 36% 22% 13% 9% 9% 13% 22% 36%
764 915 1015 1061 1061 1015 915 764 939 107 28% 14% 4% 0% 0% 4% 14% 28%
764 915 1015 1061 1061 1015 915 764 939 107 28% 14% 4% 0% 0% 4% 14% 28%
677 823 925 970 970 925 823 677 849 106 36% 22% 13% 9% 9% 13% 22% 36%
Average 721 869 971 1016 1016 970 869 721 894
StDev 50 53 51 53 53 52 53 50

∆ µmols 500 vs 300 25 45 52 60 60 55 45 25 46
-11 47 83 84 84 83 47 -11 51
-11 47 83 84 84 83 47 -11 51
25 45 55 60 60 55 45 25 46
Average 7 46 68 72 72 69 46 7

∆% µmols 500 vs 300 4% 5% 5% 6% 6% 6% 5% 4% 5%
-1% 5% 8% 7% 7% 8% 5% -1% 5%
-1% 5% 8% 7% 7% 8% 5% -1% 5%
4% 5% 6% 6% 6% 6% 5% 4% 5%
Average 1% 5% 7% 7% 7% 7% 5% 1%

Data source:
https://tinyurl.com/2s425x7j
https://tinyurl.com/2mca59t6

The efficiency difference would be that you're running the 500 watt driver at a lower input amperage. I'm not an EE but the "history major" part of my brain tells me that a 500 watt driver at 300 watts, for arguments' sake, will last longer than a 320 watt driver at 300 watts. Having said that, I would expect that the service life of the 320 watt driver is many years.



Congrats on the new tent.

You won't go wrong with either light. A key factor for going with either light has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Growcraft. Not that I would buy one but one thing in common between Chilled and HLG is that they're among the few manufacturers that sell a veg light and a flower light. That's important because blue light is great for growing plants that are short and compact but it hammers yield. Bugbee talks about this in some of his videos and it's here in a case study on the Apogee site:

"Through the three different trials, they found that as the percent of blue photons increased from 4 to 20%, flower yield decreased by 12.3%. This means that flower yield increased by 0.77% per 1% decrease in blue photons. However, it is thought that far-red photons also played a small part in the 12% decrease. Additionally, the blue photon fraction had no effect on final cannabinoid concentration."

Growcraft "full cycle" (ie flower) lights have a small percentage of blue in them. I believe that it was in a Bugbee video that some amount of blue was needed in flower to avoid deformed plants however, as cited above, blue light does have the effect of reducing yield. Almost all LED grow lights have significant amounts of blue in their spectrum and that means that growers are losing about ⅛ of their potential yield. Ouch.
thanks for the info - will need to digest in detail after work
 

Zipz55

Well-Known Member
I reached out to confirm the X3 500w would work with the ACI controller - provided the appropriate ACI/Chil adapters are used. Certainly don't mind paying a bit more for convenience - but unsure if 500w is overkill for 2x4 (could I just turn down and improve efficiency?).

Also - looks like the X6 Mini is about three inches wider than the X3, most likely due to the design. Leaning towards the X3 as it will fit better in the 2x4 tent that was just delivered.
the X6 fits a 2x4 perfectly

I was debating between these lights too and went with the X6 cause it had a better spread when I compared the PAR maps

and 500w definitively isnt necessary for a 2x4

I was just using a 450w light in mine and never turned my dimmer higher that 66-67% during flower

330w is perfect for a 2x4
 

orangejesus

Well-Known Member
the X6 fits a 2x4 perfectly

I was debating between these lights too and went with the X6 cause it had a better spread when I compared the PAR maps

and 500w definitively isnt necessary for a 2x4

I was just using a 450w light in mine and never turned my dimmer higher that 66-67% during flower

330w is perfect for a 2x4
thanks for the info; leaning towards the 330w to save a bit of money
 
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