3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

jonnynobody · Sep 22, 2021

toastedleaf said:
was wondering if I could pick your brain again, after following your instructions, almost a month ago, by raising/dimming the light the problem went away. I now seem to be having the same problem, day 36 from flip, they are now 14" from the light (sf2000) with is at %55 power. I've got a few similar pics over the last week that show its getting slightly worse. I'm happy to provide more details/ photos. Just didn't want to mess with your thread too much. Thanks

Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.

That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.

rkymtnman · Sep 22, 2021

jonnynobody said:
Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.

That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.

have you ever measured lux or ppfd at your canopy?

VincenzioVonHook · Sep 22, 2021

jonnynobody said:
Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.

That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.

I've got a 240w quantum board here with lm301b diodes and a Meanwell driver. Puts out more light than an SF2000. Have had no problems around 12-16" away from the plants. At 36" from the plants, Im only getting 480umol/s in the hot spot, and 190umol/s at the edges in a 4x2.

The plants ended up 10" from the board for a week Until I got a 200cm tall tent, and then it sat at 20" from the canopy, 20hrs a day for the next 6 weeks. I doubt an SF2000 will burn anything at 36" or under, unless you have extremely intolerant plants. My current seedling would be getting more ppfd than your flowering plants if you are running an sf2000 36" away from a flowering canopy.

Hobbitgoblin · Sep 22, 2021

jonnynobody said:
I took the plunge 3 days ago and transitioned my entire garden over to jack's 5-12-26 from GH's maxi grow / bloom, and all of the plants look fantastic at 647-675PPM! That's pretty incredible to me, and explains why my jack's grown flowers taste and burn better. I have to feed GH's maxi grow / bloom at 775-825PPM to prevent deficiencies. Jack's gets the job done at nearly 200PPM less. The plants are growing and are as happy as they can be with significantly less fertilizer input, so the plants are absorbing lower levels of elements and I believe this is directly related to flavor and burn qualities.

We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue. That problem doesn't occur with jack's. I'm excited to post my post harvest quality report on the latest jack's grown flowers in the near future. Anyone else notice their flowers taste better with jack's versus other fertilizers that require much higher PPM's to satisfy the plant's needs?

Lights out at the moment. I'll snap pics and post them later tonight. I hate when I see a thread like this and the OP doesn't post pics. Just pisses me off

WAIT! WHAT THE FUCK!! "just switched 3 days ago" but plants burn and taste better? 3 days to grow dry and smoke????

jonnynobody · Sep 23, 2021

rkymtnman said:
have you ever measured lux or ppfd at your canopy?

I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.

rkymtnman · Sep 23, 2021

jonnynobody said:
I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.

yeah, i bought a cheap lux meter instead. figure that's close enough for me.

jonnynobody · Sep 23, 2021

Hobbitgoblin said:
WAIT! WHAT THE FUCK!! "just switched 3 days ago" but plants burn and taste better? 3 days to grow dry and smoke????

I'm pretty sure I mentioned around page 2 or 3 of this thread that I grew with jack's several years ago. Both the flavor and burn quality was exponentially better than GH's maxi line that I experimented with after trying the jack's. I thought maybe I was missing something by not using the cannabis specific fertilizer and figured I'd give it a shot. I was promised bigger yields and never considered it may affect the flavor of the harvested bud. I ran the maxi for quite a while thinking something else was causing the problem. I attempted all sorts of fixes. Adding silica. Eliminating silica. Adding calmag. No calmag. After being frustrated with my inability to solve the problem I thought back to the last time I was satisfied with the flavor and burn qualities of my flower. It was with jack's 321. I've gone through 2 flower cycles with jack's now plus the one I did 3 years ago and it's still performing nicely. I'm working on my curing / drying process to improve the flavor even more. I'm also looking forward to my soil plant experiment. To this day 13 years after starting growing my first 4 or 5 soil grows produced the best flavor and quality I've ever grown. I'm trying out 3 or 4 soil plants my next flower cycle and if I reproduce the same results I had 13 years ago I'm switching the whole garden over to soil. I'll still use jack's of course. Why use anything else?

PJ Diaz · Sep 23, 2021

jonnynobody said:
I'm pretty sure I mentioned around page 2 or 3 of this thread that I grew with jack's several years ago. Both the flavor and burn quality was exponentially better than GH's maxi line that I experimented with after trying the jack's. I thought maybe I was missing something by not using the cannabis specific fertilizer and figured I'd give it a shot. I was promised bigger yields and never considered it may affect the flavor of the harvested bud. I ran the maxi for quite a while thinking something else was causing the problem. I attempted all sorts of fixes. Adding silica. Eliminating silica. Adding calmag. No calmag. After being frustrated with my inability to solve the problem I thought back to the last time I was satisfied with the flavor and burn qualities of my flower. It was with jack's 321. I've gone through 2 flower cycles with jack's now plus the one I did 3 years ago and it's still performing nicely. I'm working on my curing / drying process to improve the flavor even more. I'm also looking forward to my soil plant experiment. To this day 13 years after starting growing my first 4 or 5 soil grows produced the best flavor and quality I've ever grown. I'm trying out 3 or 4 soil plants my next flower cycle and if I reproduce the same results I had 13 years ago I'm switching the whole garden over to soil. I'll still use jack's of course. Why use anything else?

IMO, if you add fulvic acid and kelp extract to your Jacks hydro feed you will get much closer to that "soil grown flavor" you are seeking, without having to grow in soil.

.Smoke · Sep 24, 2021

jonnynobody said:
I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.

Interested to see what your Lux reading is. Did you get a chance to measure?

Rurumo · Sep 24, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
IMO, if you add fulvic acid and kelp extract to your Jacks hydro feed you will get much closer to that "soil grown flavor" you are seeking, without having to grow in soil.

Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.

jonnynobody · Sep 24, 2021

.Smoke said:
Interested to see what your Lux reading is. Did you get a chance to measure?

Yesterday was a train wreck. I finally got my 2 new 460w lights from alibaba after a 60+ day wait. I was in the middle of clipping buds off the branches which is a really tedious awful process. It's about as bad as trimming itself. I only made it through 3 of 10 containers. At lights on I barely walked my lazy ass downstairs to check temps. Today is a better day. I'll get the reading tonight from the 660's, 450w spider farmer, 100w COB's, and my new 460w lights. Gimme a few minutes. I'll grab a lux reading on the 460's real quick from 36" away and 12" away.

jonnynobody · Sep 24, 2021

Rurumo said:
Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.

I've got kelp on hand in the form of floralicous plus but I'll need to grab some fulvic. I haven't been using the floralicous for some reason. Time to get it back in rotation. Thanks for the recommendation.

jonnynobody · Sep 24, 2021

460w qb:
Lux @12" 32,767
Lux @ 24" 32,767
Lux @ 36" 21,577

PJ Diaz · Sep 24, 2021

Rurumo said:
Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.

Kelp contains many amino acids already, including significant levels of tryptophan, threonine, isoleucine, methionine, cysteine and valine. Kelp also contains lower levels of leucine, lysine, phenylalanine, tyrosine and histidine.

PJ Diaz · Sep 24, 2021

jonnynobody said:
I've got kelp on hand in the form of floralicous plus but I'll need to grab some fulvic. I haven't been using the floralicous for some reason. Time to get it back in rotation. Thanks for the recommendation.

This is the best Kelp product I've used, and I've tried many:

CleanKelp | Organic

The secret of the sea. Bloom City’s CleanKelp formulation contains seven species of wild harvested sea plants that are loaded with vitamins, minerals, and naturally occurring plant growth nutrients. Improves root and stem growth and relieves heat and drought stress to ensure plants grow...

www.bloom.city

I've been using this for fulvic for a while, and been quite happy with it:

Organic Fulvic Acid Complex for Growers

Mr. Fulvic is an organic amendment for plant growth that increases nutrient absorption and creates healthier and stronger plants.

www.mrfulvic.com

rkymtnman · Sep 24, 2021

PJ Diaz said:
Kelp contains many amino acids already, including significant levels of tryptophan, threonine, isoleucine, methionine, cysteine and valine. Kelp also contains lower levels of leucine, lysine, phenylalanine, tyrosine and histidine.

i'm using that Mr Fulvic you recommended this grow and skipping kelp. also using Si derived from silicon dioxide, not potassium silicate too (from cutting edge solutions)

PJ Diaz · Sep 24, 2021

rkymtnman said:
i'm using that Mr Fulvic you recommended this grow and skipping kelp. also using Si derived from silicon dioxide, not potassium silicate too (from cutting edge solutions)

I will never skip kelp. I've used kelp for over 25 years. It's an old habit that I will never give up. I learned of it's benefits very early on. It also has natural growth hormones, as kelp can grow up to one linear foot a day in the wild. I'm pretty convinced that kelp one of the main reasons that my hydro tastes so good.

Snowback · Sep 24, 2021

Rurumo said:
Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.

In my experience, the Megacrop 2 part outperforms the Jack's 2 part, but to be fair, I have much more experience with the Megacrop than I do with the Jack's.

Treesomewanted77 · Sep 25, 2021

Snowback said:
In my experience, the Megacrop 2 part outperforms the Jack's 2 part, but to be fair, I have much more experience with the Megacrop than I do with the Jack's.

If I may ask what is the dosage you use of mega crop for seedlings and clones and on up through veg? I recently got the mega crop but haven’t started using it yet as I still have a bunch of others to use up before switching over. I got the mega crop 2 part with epsom. Also do you use anything with the mega crop? Thank you

Rurumo · Sep 25, 2021

Treesomewanted77 said:
If I may ask what is the dosage you use of mega crop for seedlings and clones and on up through veg? I recently got the mega crop but haven’t started using it yet as I still have a bunch of others to use up before switching over. I got the mega crop 2 part with epsom. Also do you use anything with the mega crop? Thank you

The nice thing about Megacrop is their recommended amounts on the back are not a bad place to start-they make it a lot more approachable than Jack's does. What is the PPM of your water btw? A great thing to do, to understand the nutrients better, is go to the Megacrop website, go to the nutrient calculator for "single tank res", put in "1 gallon" as the amount, and then plug in the numbers directly from the bag. From memory, I think they recommend 1.5 g of part A, and 2.5 g of part B. Put those in the calculator and you can see the PPMs, and nutrient breakdown. Also, all of the threads here on Jack's A & B apply to the Megacrop two part-they are identical for the purpose of the nutrient calculator. So if you see people here who know what they are doing recommending certain amounts of part A and B, you can put those in the calculator and see what the PPMs are as well as the NPK, Calcium/Mag, etc. For seedlings, I start pretty low 200-300 ppms, then increase as the plant size and root ball increases up to about 600 ppms at the beginning of flower. Often I will need to go higher depending on what the leaves look like, but it's strain dependent. When you first get started, start low and watch the leaves-you're basically trying to grow beautiful leaves. If the tips burn or curl, back it off. If they are too light colored, increase a little. The calculator helps a lot getting started. Good luck!

3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

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