35,000 Sq/ft Commercial Setup - need feedback (yes for real)

Miraghoul said:

We don't store, warehouse or fulfill on site. And security is taken care of third party.

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Miraghoul said:

As far as having the basis covered we have an entire consulting group (multiple individuals from the pharmaceutical industry, medical fields, agriculture, legal, and finance) as well as a management team in place. We have what we need to "get the job done". Whats important to me is to make sure that the "job" is done extremely well and we have an implementation we can be extremely proud of.

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jijiandfarmgang said:

The idiom is having "all bases covered." Next year you'll learn that in your sophomore English class.

- Jiji

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Miraghoul said:

Hey all,

I've posted this in another forum, and I'm wondering if anyone here wants to take a crack at it or have some fun with our setup. We are currently in the build out stage of a licensed large scale grow facility and the options and choices are staggering and I am hoping to get the opinions of others FAR more knowledgeable than myself on the build out.

Parameters
- 20,000 sq/ft facility footprint (ability to mezzanine for increased area)
- 4-6 crop cycles per annum
- Optimum (or at least very decent quality of product)
- Yields of .75 - 1g per watt of power usage
- Annual Yield of between 5000lb to 11,000lb of product (11k being enhanced yield of 1g/watt at 6x harvests.... our wishful thinking scenario)
- minimum number of plants for maintenance
- Minimize overhead labor
- Have a superior quality of product

What we have to work with

- A large commercial budget
- no limit to technology and setup implementation
- Design to suit
- choice of lighting, Hydro, medium, nutrient, CO2, and HVAC option
- no legal limitations, everything is licensed and transparent to regulatory


Facts

Area / sq footage

- As an initial comment on space planning..... it is absolutely amazing how much aisle space and work area takes away from your grow area. It's enough to make you cry when trying to maximize yields.

- facility template is 20,000 sq feet however using the vertical space and catwalks etc... we plan on approaching a total physical grow (plant coverage) area of 12-14,000 sq/ft of canopy

- Units are divided in to 4x8 areas with multiple units adjacent to each other

- Area will be divided have been advised to have separate clone/seed areas, curing / drying, trimming, production, shipping, maintenance, utility and about 15% office.

Room Setup

- Initially we were looking at a very large area and few strains and trying to match strain grow times for veg and flower. It's proving....very limiting.
- Looks like we've opted for separate veg and flower rooms with the possibility of a separate veg room feeding multiple flowering rooms. The idea would be a rotating grow with relatively short veg cycles feeding multiple flowering rooms for a staggered harvest.
- The above would also allow us to use optimal lighting for veg and Flowering separately as well aas vary nutrient solutions appropriate for each stage.
- separate area for seedling and cloning, probably utilizing T5 grow lights
- Each area would maintain its own specific environmental conditions for what it was growing, including varying each flowering room slightly based on the strain. this would also apply for nutrients.
- Basically each grow room can operate as its own micro climate.

Plant Density

We originally had planned a SOG setup of 16 plants per 4x4 area but have since moved to a 9 plant setup under the understanding that we can get the same yield utilizing the spacing with minimal change in veg time.

Lighting
- Again, everything is to maximize yield per square foot and yield per annum
- For each Unit (4x8 area) we need to decide between 2x 1000W HID or 4x 600w HID (whatever will give greatest yield per Sq.Ft.
- Optimally height of each grow unit/rack is not going to be more than 8 feet but we can go higher if necessary (9 foot)
- Lighting will be height adjustable
- With all the claims we will be experimenting with LED, plasma, different reflector designs, and augmented lighting and will publish all results for the community. So we will have dedicated experimental yield areas with actual monitoring, controls and results posted. However to satisfy our investment model we will be going tried and true HID lighting and if our experimentation yields greater results we will switch or expand the grow area based on the best technology. The question is what HID configuration to start given this is a "from scratch" commercial setup.
- we can move to a 5x5 setup but again everything seems to indicate that a 4x4 under 1x 1000w or 2x 600w would provide the best yields.

LED Lighting

- We are going to give it a shot.
- well aware there are crappy products on the market so going to test some grows side by side with HID in a controlled environment and post comparative results.
- There are claims of LED giving greater yields than HID with less power consumption (we're going to put the manufacturers to the test)
- There is no LED with a vent cooling technology that has proven results. As such if we decide to go CO2 (discussed below) we may have a serious issue with venting heat from the grow area given we will also vent the CO2
- Ultimately I love technology and would like nothing more than a facility with 100% LED implementation. Simply put I think it would be insanely cool and efficient. So we'll experiment, see how we can work with Yields and the HVAC system on a larger scale, with the "Hope" we will be pleasantly surprised
- May just end up using LED supplementary lighting

Hydroponics
- Automation
- as low maintenance as possible
- whatever contributes to high yields
- scalable for a large commercial operation
- Looks like we are going with a 5 gallon ebb and flow system, semi customized with larger pumps, and reservoirs
- our thinking is that its lower maintenance and if we have to move plans from room to room for separate veg and flower, a consistent design wouldn't be too bad
- We've been told Rockwool is the best medium for yield, however are also looking at expanded clay pellets
- We can implement anything from reservoir chillers to aerators
- Ultimately what is the best commercial grade large scale hydro system ?
- Is it worth looking at aeroponics or an alternative system to the Ebb and flow for large scale implementation ?
- Thoughts on Medium and substrate matter for a large commercial grow ?

Strains
We've researched a number of strains ultimately they need to be:
- Easy to grow and maintain
- High demand (consumer and pharma)
- Higher the Yield the better
- Low time to market

As much as we would LOVE to produce a rare strain that is well loved and takes 6 months to mature to market, the numbers just don't work.

Ultimately we are looking for around 12 strong strains for a reasonable variety.

CO2 and a CVE setup

We plan on using CO2 however I do not know if regulatory will allow us to. There may be a Health requirement to cycle air regularly in which case we cannot maintain a closed environment and this would be wasted. Lets hope we can.

- If we can use CO2 we will
- Most likely for veg stage and 3/4 the estimated flower stage


Yields
So much on this all over the place but one thing seems constant. The longer you veg, the better the root system, and ultimately the stronger the yield in flowering.

- looking for .75 to 1g per wattage of light used.
- will use whatever technology, grow systems, lighting, and combination thereof to obtain this
- it seems as though hydro, medium can achieve a +30% yield and faster veg time
- It seems CO2 augmentation will also ultimately yield 25-30%
- Super-cropping, pinching, pruning, and plant maintenance should greatly increase yields depending on strain
- combining grow systems and enhancements should surpass our targets (theoretically at least)

Drying and Curing

- Combined Drying and Curing room
- Multiple room setup
- Drying / Curing screens racked open air
- Temp and humidity controls for the entire room (industrial dehumidifiers)

Our goal is to have the best quality bud which means a really slow dry and good cure. Not going to skimp here

Packaging

Honestly, haven't looked in to this yet. Seems as though glass jars are best for storage but we will be using some form of plastic container.

I'd like to use vacuum sealed bags for storage of end product to client.
- Is vacuum sealing viable ?
- Once vacuum sealed is there any chance mold or mildew can develop ?
- Does all curing stop once vacuum sealed ?
- is it better to just use plastic pharma jars ?

Trimming - Hand VS Machine

- Hand is always better but we are going to have a huge amount of BUD to trim
- Thinking of going a barrel trimmer but I don't want to sacrifice product quality

Any thoughts or Ideas ?

Technology

We will look at any technologies to assist in our project and goals. We've seen:

- Trimming equipment
- Industrial Curing systems
- Water treatment systems



So if anyone cares to help or give some advice on our little project we would LOVE to hear from you so you can help make it a success, and have allot of fun doing it while avoiding some major pitfalls.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Miraghoul said:

We are actually not running a commercial greenhouse environment. We are utilizing a controlled industrial / commercial model with a 100% controlled environment and artificial lighting for our grow facility. This gives us the flexibility in our model to control all aspects of the grow and photoperiods. Plus its simply what we have to work with.

Click to expand...

AdamBlack760 said:

shows what you know about green houses. There's a reason why multimillion horticultural operations are in greenhouses not wherehouses. Artificial lighting is just that trying to mimic the sun. In my 430 sqft greenhouse i control the environment use supplemental artificial lighting and control photo period. Iharvest 4 times a year easily could do 5 but I like time off. Last year cropped 50lbs this year is looking better. Lets do some math lets say you do 5 harvests so 60lbs. Scale up my set up aprox 4800 lbs. A few bullet points.
1. In no way do I optimize my space I focus to much time on my indoor op. Im in raised beds, Hydro might be more productive.
2. commercial horticulture greenhouses focus on efficiency where 5% can easily equal $500000 on crops that are worth $5 a pound.
3. Bought the property when its built its only good for mj. When u sell find someone that wants to do the same or tear it down. If leased ur tearing it down. Build a commercial greenhouse when your done you sell it to anyone interested in commercial horticulture.

Click to expand...

Miraghoul said:

Hey all,

I've posted this in another forum, and I'm wondering if anyone here wants to take a crack at it or have some fun with our setup. We are currently in the build out stage of a licensed large scale grow facility and the options and choices are staggering and I am hoping to get the opinions of others FAR more knowledgeable than myself on the build out.

Parameters
- 20,000 sq/ft facility footprint (ability to mezzanine for increased area)
- 4-6 crop cycles per annum
- Optimum (or at least very decent quality of product)
- Yields of .75 - 1g per watt of power usage
- Annual Yield of between 5000lb to 11,000lb of product (11k being enhanced yield of 1g/watt at 6x harvests.... our wishful thinking scenario)
- minimum number of plants for maintenance
- Minimize overhead labor
- Have a superior quality of product

What we have to work with

- A large commercial budget
- no limit to technology and setup implementation
- Design to suit
- choice of lighting, Hydro, medium, nutrient, CO2, and HVAC option
- no legal limitations, everything is licensed and transparent to regulatory


Facts

Area / sq footage

- As an initial comment on space planning..... it is absolutely amazing how much aisle space and work area takes away from your grow area. It's enough to make you cry when trying to maximize yields.

- facility template is 20,000 sq feet however using the vertical space and catwalks etc... we plan on approaching a total physical grow (plant coverage) area of 12-14,000 sq/ft of canopy

- Units are divided in to 4x8 areas with multiple units adjacent to each other

- Area will be divided have been advised to have separate clone/seed areas, curing / drying, trimming, production, shipping, maintenance, utility and about 15% office.

Room Setup

- Initially we were looking at a very large area and few strains and trying to match strain grow times for veg and flower. It's proving....very limiting.
- Looks like we've opted for separate veg and flower rooms with the possibility of a separate veg room feeding multiple flowering rooms. The idea would be a rotating grow with relatively short veg cycles feeding multiple flowering rooms for a staggered harvest.
- The above would also allow us to use optimal lighting for veg and Flowering separately as well aas vary nutrient solutions appropriate for each stage.
- separate area for seedling and cloning, probably utilizing T5 grow lights
- Each area would maintain its own specific environmental conditions for what it was growing, including varying each flowering room slightly based on the strain. this would also apply for nutrients.
- Basically each grow room can operate as its own micro climate.

Plant Density

We originally had planned a SOG setup of 16 plants per 4x4 area but have since moved to a 9 plant setup under the understanding that we can get the same yield utilizing the spacing with minimal change in veg time.


Lighting
- Again, everything is to maximize yield per square foot and yield per annum
- For each Unit (4x8 area) we need to decide between 2x 1000W HID or 4x 600w HID (whatever will give greatest yield per Sq.Ft.
- Optimally height of each grow unit/rack is not going to be more than 8 feet but we can go higher if necessary (9 foot)
- Lighting will be height adjustable
- With all the claims we will be experimenting with LED, plasma, different reflector designs, and augmented lighting and will publish all results for the community. So we will have dedicated experimental yield areas with actual monitoring, controls and results posted. However to satisfy our investment model we will be going tried and true HID lighting and if our experimentation yields greater results we will switch or expand the grow area based on the best technology. The question is what HID configuration to start given this is a "from scratch" commercial setup.
- we can move to a 5x5 setup but again everything seems to indicate that a 4x4 under 1x 1000w or 2x 600w would provide the best yields.

LED Lighting

- We are going to give it a shot.
- well aware there are crappy products on the market so going to test some grows side by side with HID in a controlled environment and post comparative results.
- There are claims of LED giving greater yields than HID with less power consumption (we're going to put the manufacturers to the test)
- There is no LED with a vent cooling technology that has proven results. As such if we decide to go CO2 (discussed below) we may have a serious issue with venting heat from the grow area given we will also vent the CO2
- Ultimately I love technology and would like nothing more than a facility with 100% LED implementation. Simply put I think it would be insanely cool and efficient. So we'll experiment, see how we can work with Yields and the HVAC system on a larger scale, with the "Hope" we will be pleasantly surprised
- May just end up using LED supplementary lighting

Hydroponics
- Automation
- as low maintenance as possible
- whatever contributes to high yields
- scalable for a large commercial operation
- Looks like we are going with a 5 gallon ebb and flow system, semi customized with larger pumps, and reservoirs
- our thinking is that its lower maintenance and if we have to move plans from room to room for separate veg and flower, a consistent design wouldn't be too bad
- We've been told Rockwool is the best medium for yield, however are also looking at expanded clay pellets
- We can implement anything from reservoir chillers to aerators
- Ultimately what is the best commercial grade large scale hydro system ?
- Is it worth looking at aeroponics or an alternative system to the Ebb and flow for large scale implementation ?
- Thoughts on Medium and substrate matter for a large commercial grow ?

Strains
We've researched a number of strains ultimately they need to be:
- Easy to grow and maintain
- High demand (consumer and pharma)
- Higher the Yield the better
- Low time to market

As much as we would LOVE to produce a rare strain that is well loved and takes 6 months to mature to market, the numbers just don't work.

Ultimately we are looking for around 12 strong strains for a reasonable variety.

CO2 and a CVE setup

We plan on using CO2 however I do not know if regulatory will allow us to. There may be a Health requirement to cycle air regularly in which case we cannot maintain a closed environment and this would be wasted. Lets hope we can.

- If we can use CO2 we will
- Most likely for veg stage and 3/4 the estimated flower stage


Yields
So much on this all over the place but one thing seems constant. The longer you veg, the better the root system, and ultimately the stronger the yield in flowering.

- looking for .75 to 1g per wattage of light used.
- will use whatever technology, grow systems, lighting, and combination thereof to obtain this
- it seems as though hydro, medium can achieve a +30% yield and faster veg time
- It seems CO2 augmentation will also ultimately yield 25-30%
- Super-cropping, pinching, pruning, and plant maintenance should greatly increase yields depending on strain
- combining grow systems and enhancements should surpass our targets (theoretically at least)

Drying and Curing

- Combined Drying and Curing room
- Multiple room setup
- Drying / Curing screens racked open air
- Temp and humidity controls for the entire room (industrial dehumidifiers)

Our goal is to have the best quality bud which means a really slow dry and good cure. Not going to skimp here

Packaging

Honestly, haven't looked in to this yet. Seems as though glass jars are best for storage but we will be using some form of plastic container.

I'd like to use vacuum sealed bags for storage of end product to client.
- Is vacuum sealing viable ?
- Once vacuum sealed is there any chance mold or mildew can develop ?
- Does all curing stop once vacuum sealed ?
- is it better to just use plastic pharma jars ?

Trimming - Hand VS Machine

- Hand is always better but we are going to have a huge amount of BUD to trim
- Thinking of going a barrel trimmer but I don't want to sacrifice product quality

Any thoughts or Ideas ?

Technology

We will look at any technologies to assist in our project and goals. We've seen:

- Trimming equipment
- Industrial Curing systems
- Water treatment systems



So if anyone cares to help or give some advice on our little project we would LOVE to hear from you so you can help make it a success, and have allot of fun doing it while avoiding some major pitfalls.

Cheers

Click to expand...