6500 vs 5700 vs 5000K for veg

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
if stacking as opposed to growth rate was your criteria, best lamp for veg assuming they would be used 3 weeks into a 9-week flower cycle to prevent stretch. right now im doing that with blurples (CLWs set to 'veg' mode, see spectrum here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/spectral-analysis-of-solarstorm-and-kind-k5.893560/)

also consider the rare DD bin as well. if you could get 6500k DD (presumably 14000 lumens vs 13000 for DB) would the extra 7-8% efficiency make up for the overly blue spectrum?

just thinking how 6500k T5s are the go-to veg lamp, why would the same not apply to COBs?

Older related thread with a little discussion here:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-4x-cxb3070-cb-or-cxb3590-dd-bin.883923/page-2

i thought it was a topic worthy of its own thread :)
 
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SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
You can get 4000K 70 CRi in DB from Cutter. Plenty of blue but without sacrificing too much of everything else. I expect it would be the top dog for vegging because when it comes down to it, I think we should use as little blue as possible, as long as we are not sacrificing efficiency or getting too much stretch.
CXB3590 4000K 70 CRi SPD 3784K.png
 

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
But what is he doing with all this vegg lights???
Did you start a latuce salad grow?
So did you try bloom under 6500ºk?
Why those 5600ºk? Except it is new!
CU
 

DISTRESS0R

Active Member
I recently posted into another thread but this one will be better suited. Very interested in the growth differences we are noticing under different Kelvin cobs. i know most people here will say 3500k is the best all rounder, but it may not be for peoples specific needs in their space. For example, i am pretty limited in height (1.2m max) so a light that encourages tighter internodes will be favourable with LST and topping. Looking forward to seeing more discussion on this front
 

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
great relative to what?
5000k and 3500k and I'm running the 6500k @500ma dimmed to 18watt per cob and seedlings aren't stretchy at all they are short and bushy

The tray on the right is from fem seeds CBD OG, Chem Valley Kush, Blue Diesel, Purple Diesel, Strawberry OG and Animal Pie

SAM_1361.JPG
2X4 Veg tent 6500k DD only 90watts but can be turned up to 180watts
SAM_1362.JPG
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
5000k and 3500k and I'm running the 6500k @500ma dimmed to 18watt per cob and seedlings aren't stretchy at all they are short and bushy

The tray on the right is from fem seeds CBD OG, Chem Valley Kush, Blue Diesel, Purple Diesel, Strawberry OG and Animal Pie

View attachment 3579907
2X4 Veg tent 6500k DD only 90watts but can be turned up to 180watts
View attachment 3579908
I'm thinking of using 5000k cxb3590 for both veg and bloom.
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
why is that ? (little blue) .been vegging with 5000K to 6500K for a long long time. curious about your experience
That is a good question and kind of hard to explain. I am not saying that 6500K won't work, but if I had to choose from a bunch of COBs that were all the same bin (DB), I would choose the lowest color temp. Some of the reasons I suspect that-

-The main reason, I would rather most of the LED's output spread across many wavelengths, rather than concentrated around a 450nm peak.
-higher color temp normally means more blue, green, yellow and less red, deep red
-blue photons are highly energetic and they may isignal to the plant that is is being hit with UVA and UVB. You can bleach away stains with 450nm blue light, it probably causes oxidative stress to the plants to some level, which is why they turn purple with antioxidants (anthocyanin). I am not sure if that is a bad thing overall, but definitely worth considering.

I think blue is important, but not sure there is any benefit to using more than is necessary (open to being proven wrong tho!)

5700K
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Rayne

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking and for anyone who doesn't already know.

More of the blue spectrum than red spectrum is good, if you are looking to develop denser root balls and don't mind having a "Long" (more then four weeks) vegetative phase.

More of the red spectrum than blue spectrum is good if you don't care about root ball density and going for a "Short" (less than four weeks) vegetative phase.

The lower end of the blue spectrum is where ultra violet A(315-400nm) and B(280-315nm) radiation is. At the higher end of the red spectrum is where infrared(730nm) is.

Forget competing against HPS/MH. Think in terms of what the sun produces and build an array that is similar to the sun's spectral output during a targeted point of the year.
 
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FranJan

Well-Known Member
That is a good question and kind of hard to explain............I think blue is important, but not sure there is any benefit to using more than is necessary (open to being proven wrong tho!)
Don't sweat it Sup since blue is gonna be off the menu according to Nakamura, besides the fact that tunable high CRI white with high enough efficacy are right around the corner and will probably eliminate any issues with blue by either dimming or providing proper spectral ratio. Basically the blue you need for the strain you're growing.

Purple LEDs to Replace Blue LEDs?

“It is only a matter of time before white LEDs using blue LED chips will disappear from the market,” said Shuji Nakamura at a forum on GaN technology in July organized by Nikkei Asian Review. The comment from the inventor of the blue LED chip and Nobel Laureate shocked the industry. Nakamura shares a Nobel Prize in Physics with two Japanese inventors Isamu Akasaki and Hiroshi Amano for their invention of the blue LED. Yet, Nakamura’s recent remark completely derails his previous accomplishments. Industry insiders in China try to decode Nakamura’s comments to determine whether it reflects embedded flaws in blue LEDs design, or whether his motive is to promote Soraa’s purple LEDs.
LEDs are basically narrowband light sources made from semiconductor components, capable of emitting wavelengths ranging from IR to UV rays. The first LED wavelength ranged from IR wavelengths to green lights. Prerequisites for blue LED research included high quality crystal growth technology, and P-type doping technology control in wide bandgap semiconductors. All these technologies emerged in the late 1980s, only then was GaN based systems realized. Additionally, highly efficient blue LED R&D also requires the manufacturing of different GaN-based compounds, while combining it with different types of substrate materials to create a multi-layer quantum dot well structure.

Excited by blue LED rays, phosphor coatings on the LEDs can emit different color of lights including green and red. White light is created by combining these colors. Additionally, merging complimentary colored LEDs, such as red, green and blue can also create white light. These two technologies have been applied in highly efficient white light sources, and achieved significant energy saving results.

Nakamura pointed out the wavelength of light emitted from blue LEDs combined with phosphor powder is usually not uniform, and there tends to be overtly high blue light peak wavelength values. This can disrupt people’s sleeping patterns, commonly known as the “blue light issue”. On the other hand, the average white light made from blue LED and phosphor does not contain UV rays. Hence, there are color differences in LEDs, which are sometimes different from natural sunlight, UV rays, and other light sources.

Therefore, Nakamura announced “white LEDs using blue LEDs will eventually disappear from the market”, emphasizing Soraa’s white LED solution is the best.

Nakamura is the co-founder of Soraa, a company that has mostly been selling purple LED chips that combined red, green, and white LEDs that combine blue LEDs with phosphor. Is Nakamura’s remark an attempt to promote and benefit his company?

Most LED industry insiders believe Nakamura is trying to promote his company products.

“It’s quite amusing to see an inventor to belittle his own invention,” said a representative from WhichLEDs.

Other attendees agree. “It’s very natural for people to assume Nakamura intent was to promote his business when he made this comment,” said Haipo Wang, Vice President of China Association of Lighting Industry (CALI) and head of Institute of Optoelectric Material Department at Nanjing Tech University.

Others believe Nakamura’s comments were based on his expertise in the field. “Nakamura founded a company focused on purple LED R&D because he saw its potential,” said Wu Hongjian, Chairman of Shanghai Lighting Association. “It is difficult to say whether his remarks were solely based on the company profits.” Wu also is an expert from the Chinese Society of Rare Earths.

Chao Liang, Deputy General Manager at Jiangsu Bree Optronics, also believed as a scientist and Nobel Prize Winner, Nakamura has reasonable theories and logic reasoning in his negative outlook on blue LEDs.

Lattice Power Executive Vice President Zhengyi Chen agreed too. “I believe he based his judgment on his understanding of LED technology,” said Chen.

The advantages of purple LEDs

It will be difficult to determine the motive of Nakamura’s comment, but an objective comparison can be drawn between purple and blue LEDs.

***"Purple LED potential and outlook was affirmed by Wu Hong. “White light efficiency is higher when converted from purple LEDs, lighting distribution is more uniform, and has better CRI,” he said. “These can cut energy, reduce carbon emission, and improve lighting quality. All these carry significant meaning. Even though it has not become widespread on the market because of its high pricing, its advantages are quite obvious.”

What specific advantages does white LEDs made from purple LEDs have?

  1. High CRI. When white light is created from exciting phosphor coated on purple LEDs, the peak wavelength of the blue light is not as intense. Moreover, the output encompasses all visible light wavelengths. Hence, CRI is much higher, and closer to ideal white light found in sunlight. It has a high red CRI R9, and can reach Ra 95.
  2. High luminous efficacy:
  • Purple LEDs are manufactured using GaN substrates, and the chip is produced by placing GaN semiconductors on a GaN substrate. In short, this is a type of GaN-on-GaN LED. GaN semiconductors have better crystal quality, and higher purple LED luminous efficiency. Its luminous efficiency has risen rapidly.
  • Purple LED chips are usually triangular, compared to normal LED chips rectangular shape. The triangular purple LED’s luminescent layer has better light emittance compared to square shaped LEDs. Due to purple LEDs high crystal quality and good light extraction efficiency, its wall-plug efficiency (WPE) can reach 84%. Average blue LEDs WPE in general is between 50% to 60%.
  • Average blue LED chips are manufactured on sapphire substrates. Since GaN semiconductors tend to have a different lattice constant compared to sapphire, mismatches can occur and lead to flaws in the crystal. Mismatches almost never exist in GaN substrates, so the resulting crystals are normally flawless. Compared to sapphire substrate products, crystal mismatch can be lowered to about 1/1000.
  • Another advantage of purple LED chips is its less likely to have droop issues. Droop occurs when the power from the driver is raised to increase the brightness of the chip, the issue of droop presents difficulties in increasing brightness in LED chips. In comparison, GaN-on-GaN’s higher crystal quality compared to sapphire substrates reduces droop. Hence, GaN-based products are able to drive voltages five to 10 times higher than sapphire substrate products.
Blue LEDs to exit the market?

High white LED Color Rendering Index (CRI) can be reached by using purple light or RGB phosphor excited by purple LED light. With purple LED chip power efficiency upgraded to a whole new level, more industry experts are preferring purple LEDs. Hence, will blue LEDs eventually exit the market........

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.ledinside.com/news/2015/8/purple_leds_to_replace_blue_leds

Back to Blurple, bitches! LOL
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
-The main reason, I would rather most of the LED's output spread across many wavelengths, rather than concentrated around a 450nm peak.
View attachment 3580097
That makes sense, love to see it proven Most of my young vegging is still under T5s. The "blue" in most T5s is wider than a single 450nm peak. That may explain why I still like the way plants veg under T5s.

That may be a good reason to supplement warm white cobs with small amounts of other wavelength blues, such as in the actinic range.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Blue is the light sought by growing tips and leaves. Put a cmh or mh next to hps and the plants will seek the elevated blue levels. It does seem that white light with really high blue levels over 5000k keeps some plants almost too squat. Been up to 6500k in the past even hps in veg at 2000k. 4000k to 5500k are best for me.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
heres what jerry has right now
5000K CD 80CRI
6500K DB 70CRI
5600K BD 93CRI

heres what cutter has right now:
5000K DB, 70 CRI per part number, part CXB3590-0000-000N0BDB50E
5700K DB, 70 CRI per part number, part CXB3590-0000-000N0BDB57E
The 5600K BD has a remarkably high CRI. 5600K is the CCT of sunlight at midday in summer. Since you would have the same CCT as sunlight, and almost the same CRI (as close as possible), wouldn't you pretty much have electric sunlight?
 
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