A bit of a problem i think......

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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
3rd Monkey said:
You're absolutely right. I even typed in potassium when I searched it. Not sure why I keep saying phosphorus lol.

Anyhow, if you swap them out, that's what I mean and the rest stays the same.
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I get it now, still not accurate as again, potassium is not the strongest bond in coco..if unbuffered, yes, it will be present in highest amounts with sodium and will cause issues, but if buffered, calcium and magnesium will bond to cec sites more so than potassium will..so potassium will leech out faster than calcium or magnesium would! Short C&P......

If the coco coir cation exchange complex is not buffered, the positively charged cations applied to the plants, such as calcium and magnesium, will have a stronger attraction to the coco complex and become unavailable to plants (nutrient lockup), while potassium and sodium, less attached to the complex, will be displaced, come into solution and be taken up by the plant instead of calcium. This leads to all sorts of crop problems - from excessive salt uptake by roots to calcium deficiencies, which is something growers wish to avoid at all cost.
Buffering coco prevents all this since in buffered coco coir, the cation exchange sites have already been occupied by calcium while sodium and potassium have been washed away.
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
Blitz35 said:
I get it now, still not accurate as again, potassium is not the strongest bond in coco..if unbuffered, yes, it will be present in highest amounts with sodium and will cause issues, but if buffered, calcium and magnesium will bond to cec sites more so than potassium will..so potassium will leech out faster than calcium or magnesium would! Short C&P......

If the coco coir cation exchange complex is not buffered, the positively charged cations applied to the plants, such as calcium and magnesium, will have a stronger attraction to the coco complex and become unavailable to plants (nutrient lockup), while potassium and sodium, less attached to the complex, will be displaced, come into solution and be taken up by the plant instead of calcium. This leads to all sorts of crop problems - from excessive salt uptake by roots to calcium deficiencies, which is something growers wish to avoid at all cost.
Buffering coco prevents all this since in buffered coco coir, the cation exchange sites have already been occupied by calcium while sodium and potassium have been washed away.
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I half ass understand all of that lol, but I still have to go with my gut. I still see POTASSIUM. Not yelling at you, just making sure I put the right thing lol.

Not saying I'm definitely right, but that's still what I see.
 
Genki88

Genki88

Well-Known Member
Ok, I top dressed with some worm castings and gave watered her at 6.3-6.4 ph, hopefully this will help. I was under the impression that water that is too acidic will kill the microbial activity in the coco............correct me if i'm wrong. I am using Gaia Green 4-4-4 all purpose and Gaia Green 2-8-4 fertilizers (70:30) which were mixed into the medium prior to transplanting.
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
Genki88 said:
Ok, I top dressed with some worm castings and gave watered her at 6.3-6.4 ph, hopefully this will help. I was under the impression that water that is too acidic will kill the microbial activity in the coco............correct me if i'm wrong. I am using Gaia Green 4-4-4 all purpose and Gaia Green 2-8-4 fertilizers (70:30) which were mixed into the medium prior to transplanting.
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What microbial life?
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Genki88 said:
Ok, I top dressed with some worm castings and gave watered her at 6.3-6.4 ph, hopefully this will help. I was under the impression that water that is too acidic will kill the microbial activity in the coco............correct me if i'm wrong. I am using Gaia Green 4-4-4 all purpose and Gaia Green 2-8-4 fertilizers (70:30) which were mixed into the medium prior to transplanting.
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What was the main reason you chose to use coco coir with perlite, as oppose to an organic soil mix on its own?
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
Genki88 said:
Coco with a bit of perlite premixed with the 4-4-4 and 2-8-4 dry amendments. No additional nutes.
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@Blitz35, is my theory possible with those ratios? Not being a dick, just asking for science, your forte.

I don't know how much help anybody can be with those amendments really.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
3rd Monkey said:
@Blitz35, is my theory possible with those ratios? Not being a dick, just asking for science, your forte.

I don't know how much help anybody can be with those amendments really.
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I wouldn't think so, but again, alot depends on how well the coco was washed/buffered prior to use. That would dictate how much potassium is in there to begin with. With his nutes, he actually is putting in more phosphorus than anything else, which usually you use least of (npk wise), so the balance is out of whack. If anything is too much, maybe the phosphorus, but with this feed, and not seeing cal-mag mentioned, i'd say it's just a straight up magnesium deficiency rather than a lockout.
It's why i wished him luck. Experimenting can be fun, and something will be learned from it. For beginners though, i'd say it's easier to stick with either soil, peat based mix or coco, on its own. Coco can represent alot of variables if something goes wrong, same can be said for soil or peat mix, but combining them makes it that much harder to figure out what went wrong..add to it a mixed in dry organic fertilizer, and the possibilities of what may have happened when/if it does, increases drastically!
 
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Genki88

Genki88

Well-Known Member
Canna Coco brand comes pre-buffered, I used it straight out of bag and mixed it with the dry amendments.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Genki88 said:
Canna Coco brand comes pre-buffered, I used it straight out of bag and mixed it with the dry amendments.
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I got all that, but it has happened many times before that coco that is sold as 'triple washed' and the likes, is still not plant ready..it can happen. Not using a source of cal-mag with coco can come back to bite you at some point, and maybe it already is with the start of magnesium lacking. You're early on, so issues will be minimal for now, but once she starts eating more, hopefully you will be able to adjust...if not, chalk it up as a lesson and apply to next grow! :)
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
How long has the plant been in this mix?

Any idea how long the slow release takes to break down?
Should say on the product label.

Been keeping plenty of runoff?
 
Genki88

Genki88

Well-Known Member
CannaCountry said:
So I know of a guy on Youtube Mr.Cannucks Grow or something like that. He uses coco, slow released ferts and handles his grow like a soilless grow. He has some pretty damn good results. He however, does not adhere to any of the rules I do, when using coco and synthetics. He pH's as though he's in soil and he waters as though he's in soil. I suppose his success is based on the slow release fert., I don't know, but he does fairly well. I'm old and slow; I try to keep things simple (straight coco), but I suppose a cat can be skinned a thousand ways.

For sure your girls are short on Mg and maybe N...BUT...maybe it's taking some time for your fertilizer to breakdown and feed the plants. Tread lightly here so you don't over do something, while waiting for your nutrients to kick in. A little foliar feed of Epson will green them up and help with the Mg in the mean time.

Good luck.
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I'm actually trying to grow the way Mr. Cannucks Grow does..........my first indoor grow, grew outdoor last year. Maybe i should have mastered growing in soil first with synthetic nutrients lol................
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
Ok sounds good, so it has to be active by now.

I would try to keep at least a little runoff. That could be it tbh.
5-10% runoff shouldn't harm anything.
Coco coir can be pretty sodic at times, that little bit of runoff should wash any residuals out.

Looks pretty good really man.

How are you planning on feeding it later on?
Top feed?
The slow release wouldn't last much longer than a couple months would it?
 
Aussieaceae

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
Cool man, no worries.

I see with the feeding now, makes sense.

Wouldn't necessarily say to water until runoff every time. But every couple or so, i think it'll help.

Hope it helps.

:leaf:
 
T

TheHarvester

Active Member
Blitz35 said:
Now you say it lol. Either way, the bond between calcium or magnesium, and coco, is stronger than the bond with potassium..it's why buffering with cal-mag, will displace the potassium from cec sites and replace with cal or mag. Coco comes with a lot of sodium and potassium in it due to the areas they tend to grow in (near salt water), but the actual attraction of sodium or potassium, is not the strongest. Hope someone learns something from this rambling lol :)
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Water softeners work on the same exchange principal.
 
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