A few Ideas to cure our woes:

medicineman

New Member
Numero uno, Social security: Remove the cap on deductions. Most people making over 106,000 dollars surely don't need a tax break on SS. This would undoubtably make SS solvent forever.

Numero Dos, the debt: 1. don't let the tax breaks for the rich to continue, let the tax breaks for the middle class and the poor whom really need them to remain, but by allowing the tax breaks for the rich to remain, it will add almost a trillion Bucks to the debt in the next ten years, (Silly republicans).


2. Make China regulate their currency to a fair level and put tariffs on any foriegn country (Korea comes to mind) that will not accept US made Products in porportionality. Make currency equal on the world stage, IE pay workers in foriegn lands the same wages as the USA, thereby reducing the incentive for US corporations to go overseas. Make shipping costs equal so consumers in foriegn countries pay the same for Items as we do thereby eliminating the made in China and shipped to the USA, obsolete.


3. Force corporations that take their factories overseas to avoid US taxation, to pay the taxes anyway by setting a tax on their imports that would be higher than the ones they would pay if they remaind here. Give incentives to keep jobs here, give tax breaks to any corporation that would bring back their factories and Hire American workers at a fair wage (Liveable wage).
Promote US made goods throughout the world, setting standards and qualities not seen overseas, we certainly could do that.


4. Restructure the political hiring structure by eliminating lobbyists and PAC money from elections, and repeal the secret admirer donation deal put in place by the activist supreme court.


5. Figure out what to do about the giant bowel of shit we call congress. They for the most part just puppets of the corporations. Dissallow any political contributions from any outside source period, give them a pay raise instead. It would be much cheaper to make media offer equal free time to candidates, (Offer them tax incentives) than to play the current game., If that were true, maybe we could get some regular Joes in congress, people that actually had the interest of the people in mind, and could not be bought. Make it a stiff penalty for accepting any outside money, something like losing their jobs and 10 years in the Iron bar hotel.


Those are a few workable solutions, although it would be difficult to get them instituted with the steaming bowl of crap we now have for legislatures.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
All of those require quite a foothold on power. No offense, but none really seem plausible and some are just downright out of our control (China currency and US companies off-shore moving back on shore). At this point nothing short of an armed revolt could force these changes (social security, removing lobbyists, etc). There's no way in hell that TPTB are just going to start listening to what has been a complacent and docile populace when they can very easily just make us do whatever the hell they want to anyway. There are absolutely no incentives for any of the above status quo to change...not to the ruling elite at least.
 

medicineman

New Member
All of those require quite a foothold on power. No offense, but none really seem plausible and some are just downright out of our control (China currency and US companies off-shore moving back on shore). At this point nothing short of an armed revolt could force these changes (social security, removing lobbyists, etc). There's no way in hell that TPTB are just going to start listening to what has been a complacent and docile populace when they can very easily just make us do whatever the hell they want to anyway. There are absolutely no incentives for any of the above status quo to change...not to the ruling elite at least.
I agree completely, But don't you agree that those moves would make the USA a better place to live, for the majority that is? I never thought they would get done, but somehow, they need to.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
I agree completely, But don't you agree that those moves would make the USA a better place to live, for the majority that is? I never thought they would get done, but somehow, they need to.
They could, but figuring out how is the $64,000,000 question. I mean, how the hell could you get 454 elected representatives out of office without seriously disturbing American life as we know it?
 

medicineman

New Member
They could, but figuring out how is the $64,000,000 question. I mean, how the hell could you get 454 (554) elected representatives out of office without seriously disturbing American life as we know it?
Botulism at a congressional dinner, a dirty bomb at a joint session of congress, Many ways to skin a cat. I doubt the people would really miss them while we replaced them, It would be kinda like the last two years have been and for sure like the next two years will be.

 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Botulism at a congressional dinner, a dirty bomb at a joint session of congress, Many ways to skin a cat. I doubt the people would really miss them while we replaced them, It would be kinda like the last two years have been and for sure like the next two years will be.

Yeah but with any one of those we would without any shadow of a doubt, have Martial Law enacted and the purpose would be defeated.
 

medicineman

New Member
Yeah but with any one of those we would without any shadow of a doubt, have Martial Law enacted and the purpose would be defeated.
I doubt we're really that far from martial law right now, one catastrophe away, even a false flag one to get it started. Say, do we lose the vote under martial law? The corporatists are chomping at the bit right now. Workers would have to accept the wages offered, I'm pretty sure they would not go up.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
I doubt we're really that far from martial law right now, one catastrophe away, even a false flag one to get it started. Say, do we lose the vote under martial law? The corporatists are chomping at the bit right now. Workers would have to accept the wages offered, I'm pretty sure they would not go up.
I totally agree with the volatility of the situation. And we certainly do lose the right to vote under martial law. Fuckers got some best laid plans, that's for real. I have read a book that lists every executive order that can be enacted under martial law...it's obscene.
 

medicineman

New Member
Yeah but with any one of those we would without any shadow of a doubt, have Martial Law enacted and the purpose would be defeated.
Yeah it really sucks that this republic has denigrated into this corporatists state. We are a oligarchic plutocrachy, ever furthered by those on the right.
Here is a little script:
There's no doubt about this: the Republican Party, and it's Teabagger wing, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Corporate Class in this country. Everything they intend to block or implement is designed to strengthen the hegemony of wealth in this country at the expense of the working middle class. They actually sat down behind closed doors with their corporate owners during the financial reform bill process to get their instructions for how they were to vote in order to protect the corporate rapists of our economy just two years ago. Republicans' ability to couch and conceal their real objectives to make them palatable to the middle class is textbook orwellian doublespeak. Just look at the names of the shadowy funding groups: the Commission on Hope, Growth and Opportunity; Club For Growth; Americans for Job Security. Many front groups for the oil and gas industry have names like Americans for Clean Air and Citizens for a Healthy Planet. It's hard to believe that so many Americans have already forgotten how the people who pony up the money for these duplicitous and nefarious organizations nearly destroyed this country's economic and fiscal infrastructure just a few years ago. That enough of them seem willing, if not eager, to put the same criminally negligent sociopaths back into power would be the subject of entire textbooks on abnormal psychology.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http://jhnwlk.newsvine.com/_news/2010/10/29/5372701-make-way-for-the-oligarchic-plutocracy-of-wall-street-formerly-the-usa&ei=XTrfTISdJIO8sQOW5ZzfCg&usg=AFQjCNHGRfQ5OI4kbZ4rM7WKsi3-3XcJ9A
 

Tw3nti3ight

Well-Known Member
Yeah it really sucks that this republic has denigrated into this corporatists state. We are a oligarchic plutocrachy, ever furthered by those on the right.
Here is a little script:
There's no doubt about this: the Republican Party, and it's Teabagger wing, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Corporate Class in this country. Everything they intend to block or implement is designed to strengthen the hegemony of wealth in this country at the expense of the working middle class. They actually sat down behind closed doors with their corporate owners during the financial reform bill process to get their instructions for how they were to vote in order to protect the corporate rapists of our economy just two years ago. Republicans' ability to couch and conceal their real objectives to make them palatable to the middle class is textbook orwellian doublespeak. Just look at the names of the shadowy funding groups: the Commission on Hope, Growth and Opportunity; Club For Growth; Americans for Job Security. Many front groups for the oil and gas industry have names like Americans for Clean Air and Citizens for a Healthy Planet. It's hard to believe that so many Americans have already forgotten how the people who pony up the money for these duplicitous and nefarious organizations nearly destroyed this country's economic and fiscal infrastructure just a few years ago. That enough of them seem willing, if not eager, to put the same criminally negligent sociopaths back into power would be the subject of entire textbooks on abnormal psychology.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http://jhnwlk.newsvine.com/_news/2010/10/29/5372701-make-way-for-the-oligarchic-plutocracy-of-wall-street-formerly-the-usa&ei=XTrfTISdJIO8sQOW5ZzfCg&usg=AFQjCNHGRfQ5OI4kbZ4rM7WKsi3-3XcJ9A
Screw politics....all bullshit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7utc0OTIj88

TRUTH!!!!
 

medicineman

New Member
Martial law, Actually, for the people making less than 50K per year, (The majority) what we have now is not that far from martial law. We the majority have been brainwashed so much that we actually vote against our own best interests. Who would have thought that the American people would vote for the same dudes that put us in this recession, hey, I'll give credit where credit is due, Bill Clinton and NAFTA, Roll back on regulations, (repeal of Glass Steagel), etc., that certainly didn't help matters for the people, cost 8 million jobs and let the banksters off the hook with our tax money, Letting the crooks on Wall street and the banksters abscond with our wealth was a very bad move on both parties watch.
I also don't see any balls in the American electorate, they are either really stupid, (My choice) or really gutless, probably a little of both.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Martial law, Actually, for the people making less than 50K per year, (The majority) what we have now is not that far from martial law. We the majority have been brainwashed so much that we actually vote against our own best interests. Who would have thought that the American people would vote for the same dudes that put us in this recession, hey, I'll give credit where credit is due, Bill Clinton and NAFTA, Roll back on regulations, (repeal of Glass Steagel), etc., that certainly didn't help matters for the people, cost 8 million jobs and let the banksters off the hook with our tax money, Letting the crooks on Wall street and the banksters abscond with our wealth was a very bad move on both parties watch.
I also don't see any balls in the American electorate, they are either really stupid, (My choice) or really gutless, probably a little of both.
Agreed. I have been saying that my generations' been neutered for years now.
 

medicineman

New Member
Yeah but with any one of those we would without any shadow of a doubt, have Martial Law enacted and the purpose would be defeated.
I believe we, the middle class and poor, are in a form of Martial law as we speak. With no real control over the vote, or as it probably really is, too much brainwash by the rich dicks, mindwash by the media, and delusional thinking by wanabees, people are actually voting against their own interests. I have never seen such a sad state of affairs in all my 70 years.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
I believe we, the middle class and poor, are in a form of Martial law as we speak. With no real control over the vote, or as it probably really is, too much brainwash by the rich dicks, mindwash by the media, and delusional thinking by wanabees, people are actually voting against their own interests. I have never seen such a sad state of affairs in all my 70 years.
I agree...we never quite attained that Jeffersonian Democracy.

There was a guy on coast to coast AM talking about how people were freer (sic) before the american revolution, and also the real reasoning behind the abolitionists during the civil war. Very interesting info...
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
very good convo here. med, your ideas surely would improve things, but as ruiner pointed out, good luck implementing them.

i am going to follow along with this one fromn the shadows as i have nothing more worthwhile to add.
 

medicineman

New Member
I agree...we never quite attained that Jeffersonian Democracy.

There was a guy on coast to coast AM talking about how people were freer (sic) before the american revolution, and also the real reasoning behind the abolitionists during the civil war. Very interesting info...
Funny, that is all the teabaggers rant about, Jeffersonian Democracy. If this country was a total free market society, does anyone actually think the rich would volunteer to take care of the poor? Heck, even with all the care offered by churches and charities, it is a drop in the bucket for what is actually needed for a family to survive. The founding fathers in their "infinite wisdom" made blacks 2/3 of a person and women were not allowed to vote. Who in their right mind would think the rich, living in a Jeffersonian democracy, would even think to help the less fortunate? Certainly not me, charity can only do so much. Government needs social programs to help those people, and the "Fair" way to fund it is with a progressive tax. I'm thinking that the top tier should be paying more than 50%, probably closer to 75%, still less than Eisenhowers 91%. But good luck with that. The rich would declare Martial law and just use the Armed forces to annihilate about half the poor and middle class. That's where the revolution would come in. We'd have to get the military on our side, and charge the "Bastille".
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
Funny, that is all the teabaggers rant about, Jeffersonian Democracy. If this country was a total free market society, does anyone actually think the rich would volunteer to take care of the poor? Heck, even with all the care offered by churches and charities, it is a drop in the bucket for what is actually needed for a family to survive. The founding fathers in their "infinite wisdom" made blacks 2/3 of a person and women were not allowed to vote. Who in their right mind would think the rich, living in a Jeffersonian democracy, would even think to help the less fortunate? Certainly not me, charity can only do so much. Government needs social programs to help those people, and the "Fair" way to fund it is with a progressive tax. I'm thinking that the top tier should be paying more than 50%, probably closer to 75%, still less than Eisenhowers 91%. But good luck with that. The rich would declare Martial law and just use the Armed forces to annihilate about half the poor and middle class. That's where the revolution would come in. We'd have to get the military on our side, and charge the "Bastille".
My comment was more or less in regards to the idea of a well informed and educated populace...That's what we never attained...I agree though...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Make China regulate their currency to a fair level and put tariffs on any foriegn country (Korea comes to mind) that will not accept US made Products in porportionality. Make currency equal on the world stage, IE pay workers in foriegn lands the same wages as the USA, thereby reducing the incentive for US corporations to go overseas. Make shipping costs equal so consumers in foriegn countries pay the same for Items as we do thereby eliminating the made in China and shipped to the USA, obsolete.

I got this far before the impossibility of it all set in. How do you propose we "Make China Regulate their Currency"? , you do realize that it is the USA that is manipulating the currency, right?

How do you propose we make China accept an equal amount of products when the USA makes only 1/3 as much as it did in 1990? Are you going to "wish" all the new factories needed to make this possible into existence?

Impossible Ideas are only dreams even for Old men.
 

medicineman

New Member
I got this far before the impossibility of it all set in. How do you propose we "Make China Regulate their Currency"? , you do realize that it is the USA that is manipulating the currency, right?

How do you propose we make China accept an equal amount of products when the USA makes only 1/3 as much as it did in 1990? Are you going to "wish" all the new factories needed to make this possible into existence?

Impossible Ideas are only dreams even for Old men.
Maybe so, but actually these Ideas are actually doable, it is the Human element that is holding them back, mainly greed, and you're right, I see no cure for That. By actually forcing corporations (using incentives or punishments, whichever would move them) to re-locate all the jobs they've shipped overseas, putting tariffs on foriegn goods to bring the prices back into line to allow the paying of liveable wages, closing all loopholes, like tax shelters and headquarter havens, we could bring back some sanity to our economy. It is a well known fact,(well to all but the republicans it seems) that continuing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy will not create any jobs, But will create a 70 billion per year addition to the debt, giving China and other foriegn entities more control over us. When will this fiscal insanity end? We must pay for what we spend. Remove the cap on SS deductions, make SS solvent forever. I am willing to compromise on the tax cuts, make them remain on up to 500,000, come on, paying 3% more on everything over 500,000, is that such a big ass deal?
Maybe to those that make over 500K, but they are such a minority, isn't this a majority rule society? Let's vote on that issue. I really don't think the voters this time voted in favor of allowing the tax cuts for the rich to continue, If they did, then they are pretty damn stupid.
 
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