A few questions regarding the making of oil for baking...

By all means, do correct my terminology if it's wrong, I love spelling/grammar nazis.

I found this link listing a bunch of temperatures for various extracts...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/543218-Specific-boiling-points-and-roles-of-cannabinoids


Is it important to stay below the temperature for the desired extracts when soaking the herb in heated oil, dissolving and binding the extracts with fats?

Can anyone recommend a better way to get the cooking oil out of the herb, rather than squeezing the cheesecloth? Probably better when hot?

Must the oil be allowed to cool before using it to bake?

When baking, it is important to stay below the temperature of the extracts desired, correct?

Also, just curious, can the oil be heated again without affecting things as long as it doesn't get as hot as before?


Now, here's where it gets weird... I often hear that one needs fourteen grams or twice that to make a batch of brownies, I can't help but wonder how one soaked that much herb in six Tablespoons of oil and if the oil even has enough fat to dissolve and bind to that much extract. Anyone care to elaborate on this conundrum? Even the batches that call for three cups of oil leave me scratching my head. Anyhow, I'm using a grape seed oil that's 22% fat.

"Can anyone recommend a better way to get the cooking oil out of the herb, rather than squeezing the cheesecloth? Probably better when hot?"
A potato ricer, which was recommended to me works great.
When baking the baked products never get that hot. My brownies with a temperature probe never get to 200°F when baked at 350°F. That is why decarbing before baking works best.
I make a coconut oil that I parse at 2-2.5 grams per dose, it ends up being about 1/2 the oil in a recipe.

I do a decarb at 200 for about 20 minutes before anything. Then when I extract I put 2.5 cups of coconut oil in a big pot and melt it to liquid on low heat.
After its melted I take around 1.5-2 pounds of leaf material (sugar/ fan mix) and put it on top of the oil, then add water until it covers the plant material.

Then I keep it on a temp where it won't bubble for 8-16 hours (ussually its broken up into two sessions becausr sleep needs to happen haha).

I peraonally strain with cheesecloth but ive used afrench press before and it worked well.

For baking temps ii never go above 300 even if it takes a lot longer to cook.

As far as ive noticed the oil can be reheated within reason without much degradation.

Ive never used grape seedooil. But I can vouch for vegetable oil, olive oil and coconut oil working well for me.

Also keep in mind that I like edibles to be strong, I dont know what the avg plant material- oil ratio is thats just what I use.

Bad kitty's thread at the top of this forum answers all of these questions, man I swear, people don't read long threads anymore. So many good tidbits and BadKitty literally has a thread like that on almost every popular forum I am aware of

skunkfarm says 283* for 8 minutes for the perfect decarb.

even if your recipe calls for a 400* or any temp near that, the internal temp of your dish will be now where near the cooking temp. it will barely hit 1/2 (if even that) of the oven cooking temp.

cooking a 1/2 chicken (bone in) at 375* for 45 mins will get you around a 165* internal temp. meatloaf, same thing. now why would you think a baked good cooked at 350* will result in anything more than 165* (temp pulled from the above cooked chicken internal temp as a reference).


I do either a qwiso or qwet wash on all material before I decarb and use in my edibles. normally on my trimmer cleanouts, I get about 10-15 grams of finished/purged oil. then i 1.5g of oil goes in each dozen edibles, after I decarb it in a mixing bowl (fully sealed/covered at 283* @ 8 mins), then into a double broiler add my recipes oil, and cook for 35 mins at 140* MAX. let cool, mix up batter, and bake as directed 1/2 brownie and your happy, whole brownie and your stuck on the couch for 3+hrs, then up and having fun.

@Demon Trich;
How do you heat your decarb to 283°? I would be concerned about the time it takes to get to that temperature because the degradation is faster at that temperature and the longer it takes to get to temperature, the more decarbing happens along the way. It seems to be visibly active above 220°, and would take me about 10 minutes more to hit 283°, which would decarb quite a bit of the THCA.

look on skunkfarms website. they have a graph showing the degradation of mj at it gets decarbd. 283* at 8 minutes is the optimal temp and time for the proper decarb of thc. the graph spells everything out.

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/

I apologize, SF lists temp at 293*, not the 280* I listed above.

you cannot tell by visibly looking at your decarbd mix to see if its optimal. this can ONLY be done by lab testing......which SF has done, and the proof is in the graph.

for BHO, I only decarb at 280* for 7 mins (really any longer and it starts to degrade
qwet/qwiso I do a 280* at 8mins
bubble hash I do the same as above
never needed to decarb keif or flowers, as ALL my baking needs are met from the qwet/qwiso/bho I use.



remember, the temp of the decarbd product will NOT be the temp your oven is set at. nothing cooking ever reaches the oven temp your cooking at.

DemonTrich said:

look on skunkfarms website. they have a graph showing the degradation of mj at it gets decarbd. 283* at 8 minutes is the optimal temp and time for the proper decarb of thc. the graph spells everything out.

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/

I apologize, SF lists temp at 293*, not the 280* I listed above.

you cannot tell by visibly looking at your decarbd mix to see if its optimal. this can ONLY be done by lab testing......which SF has done, and the proof is in the graph.

for BHO, I only decarb at 280* for 7 mins (really any longer and it starts to degrade
qwet/qwiso I do a 280* at 8mins
bubble hash I do the same as above
never needed to decarb keif or flowers, as ALL my baking needs are met from the qwet/qwiso/bho I use.



remember, the temp of the decarbd product will NOT be the temp your oven is set at. nothing cooking ever reaches the oven temp your cooking at.

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I like the 252° temperature because the degradation is so much slower afterwards. You didn't answer my question about how you get to temperature, but you do refer to your oven..."remember, the temp of the decarbd product will NOT be the temp your oven is set at. nothing cooking ever reaches the oven temp your cooking at." I know this. So how do you get to temperature instantly, and hold it for 8 minutes?

Im not quite sure what your question is. but let me take a stab at it (I believe I know what your trying to get at, and im trying to reply the correct answer if I know it). your asking how does the decarbd product reach cooking temp? it doesn't quite reach the 290* as skunkfarm says. that's just the cooking temp, like the cooking temp on the box of brownies. not the actual temp of the product. I don't know what the chemical reaction of said product is, but if SF did their research on a specific cooking temp for decarb, and did testing analysis on said temps/decarb methods for best results, then that's all I need to base my decarbing needs on.

If SF did their research on specific temps and you're not using that temperature, what do you base your decarbing on? I measure the temperature of my oil bath which has 50X the mass of my decarbing oil and container, so it's damn close to the actual material temperature, and I have been using that graph for years. My experience can only concur with the actual times and temperatures on the graph, and visually the decarbing stops at the time denoted, ie. the out-gassing stops. The chemical reaction is the release of CO2 as THCa converts to THC.

@skepler I have some ACDC to work with...was wondering if CBD needs to be de carbed to activate like THC?

all I do is follow SF recommendations. nothing more, nothing less. ALL my baked goods over the past 4+ years have always came out super potent. ive never had any complaints. and I go thru 1-2 dozen a month, every month, year after year. so I must be doing something right.

fumble said:

@skepler I have some ACDC to work with...was wondering if CBD needs to be de carbed to activate like THC?

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Yes, from what I've read CBD is produced in an acid form and needs decarbing to get through the brain-blood barrier. I have been making caps with decarbed CBD, but with an equal weight of non-decarbed THC. This allows the THC to go to receptors in the body but not the brain. Of course some THC is decarbed as the R4 starin I was using had 1% THC, plus the non-decarbed THC I added was partially, 20%-ish decarbed naturally. These caps at 50 to a gram of CBD wax plus a gram of THC wax, do not seem to produce a high, but stop shaking from Parkingson's in one person, and relieve disc pressure on the spinal column in a guy with permanently numb legs and butt, to the extent he feels normal in those body parts.

right on @skepler ! thanks a lot hun. Just what I was wanting to know, and you never let me down

DemonTrich said:

all I do is follow SF recommendations. nothing more, nothing less. ALL my baked goods over the past 4+ years have always came out super potent. ive never had any complaints. and I go thru 1-2 dozen a month, every month, year after year. so I must be doing something right.

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I'm not being critical, and I'm sure your products are great. I just look at it from the perspective of 'what if I'm only getting 75% decarboxillation?'. That means if I can get closer to 100%, then I get 33% more potency. That's all, I just want the biggest bang for the buck.

For a compound to have "drug likeness" it must have a polar surface area (psa) under 60 angstroms in order to cross the blood brain barrier and reach receptors......the higher the number the more polar it is. Your blood being polar the barrier being fatty... it must be able to travel in blood and non polar enough to cross the barrier and get back out, this all has huge implications in pharmacology
.. in the polar acid form(thca) has a psa of 66...meaning you will feel certain effects from cbd as the cb2 receptors are located throughout the body and don't require a reduction in polarity..no bb barrier to cross. However most medical use results from activation of one of the cb receptors in the brain, specifically with cbd the "cb3" "cb4" opiate activity etc and indirect pathways. Medically limiting...

a psa under 60 is optimum but some of the compound will cross up to a psa about 70. thca at 66 will cross but not efficiently and taking higher doses..this would be a huge waste of product however..especially since it takes relatively high doses to get high anyway, compare to most pharmaceuticals having a therapeutic window 1-20mg..... after decarbing it drops to a psa of 30 easilly passing through and staying in our body a good while, there are side effects of this bioaccumulation in heavy users, but thats another subject.
cbda is more polar than thc with a psa of 77 and cbd about 40..will not cross if not decarbed

Cbd is more polar than the other cannabinoids. Cbc cbg thc and propyls'- thcv etc all have near identical psa's