A Little Sceptical About Dyna-Gro!

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T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
Dyna-Gro is well known for listing thier "16 Essential Nutrients". They even give an analylitical breakdown (out to 4 decimal places in some cases). What raises my scepticism is that they don't mention that three of the "Sweet Sixteen" - Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon - are directly available from the air and water. Freebies, if you will. To be fair, they don't include these in thier "count" - so that's not really a problem.


What I find strange about thier list is that they include: Cobalt, Nickel and Sodium as "Essential Nutrients". I've done my "fair share" of reshearch and I can honestly say that I don't recall any reliable source listing Cobalt, Nickle or Sodium as essential nutrients. If they just wanted to "stack the deck", why would they choose two heavy metals and Sodium (Sodium is some scary shit!).


I'm not saying that Dyna-Gro is a bogus product or anything, I know they have a dedicated following. I guess I'm just wondering "What's up with the Cobalt, Nickle and Sodium?". My inquireing mind wants to know! Anybody have any thoughts or answers?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I consider cobalt, nickel and chromium to be vital micros, but 10ppb final concentration is enough.
Sodium and chloride are probable trace micros as well, but since they're present in almost everything, I treat them more as likely contaminants than micronutrients. But I imagine a truly, clinically sodium-and-chloride-free hydro grow might show some weird cool deficiencies. cn
 
T

T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I consider cobalt, nickel and chromium to be vital micros,
When I Google "essential plant nutrients", I get a bunch of "Official" websites that (mostly) all agree on the same 16 elements that are required for healthy plant growth. None of them mention Cobalt, Nickle, Sodium or Chromium. Then there is Wikipedia - don't get me started on Wikipedia.

Are these elements, for some reason, Cannabis specific? Because if they are, it's the first I've heard of it - but I have to admit, I'm in unfamiliar territory here.


Sodium and chloride are probable trace micros as well,
Yeah, Chloride (or Chlorine) makes all the lists as a "Trace element" - but not Sodium.

But I imagine a truly, clinically sodium-and-chloride-free hydro grow might show some weird cool deficiencies. cn
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As I said, Chloride is a micronutrient that is recognized as essencial by many government agencies and other authoritative bodies.
But the Sodium? That's all you and Dyna-Gro. While I certainely respect your opinion, I have to wonder why virtually no authritative source considers Sodium or Chromium to be an essential micronutrient.
 
Sir.Ganga

Sir.Ganga

New Member
Its all advertising. The more crap they can put on their label the better it will sell. There are many grower that do not know their ass from a micro nutrient and it shows by how they buy their nutrients. All Flash and hype!

Dyna-Gro would be considered a mid line product, most of their formula's are rip offs of solutions other companies have invested time and money in.


More research is done on Miracle Grow. Sadly most people hate Miracle Grow and in the same sentence say how good Dyna is...This just shows peoples knowledge base and skill level. If your gonna spend top dollar on nutes, do it with a company that stands out of the crowd by the research they do...Like General Hydro or Advance Nutrients.

IMO
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
T.H.Cammo said:

I guess I'm just wondering "What's up with the Cobalt, Nickle and Sodium?". My inquireing mind wants to know! Anybody have any thoughts or answers?
Click to expand...
Here is a reliable source listing Cobalt and Nickel:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/quickref/fertilizer/nutri_def.html

Here is an article about the role of Sodium in plants (Sodium is in your tap water):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139373/

Sodium in C4 plants (cannabis is C3):

http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/edition1/?q=content/feature-essay-16-2-sodium-c4-photosynthesis

It's my understanding that labeling laws vary but are generally pretty strict in regards to what elements can be listed in the Guaranteed Analysis. It's safe to say that if it is allowed to be listed in the Guaranteed Analysis on the back of the bottle, plants can use it.
 
T

T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
Thank you, homebrewer, for those links! They, pretty much, took care of any concerns I might have had - although quite informative, they were "a bit" technical in places.


This is what I took away from those articles, please feel free to correct me if I misinterperated anything:
1.) Cobalt and Nickel are "newcommers" to the list of Trace Elements (please excuse my "old school" use of Trace Elements rather than "Micro-Nutrients". And as such, some further studies will be helpful in deciding, specifically, just what rolls they play in plant development.
2.) Sodium, while not actually listed as a Trace Element, has beneficial properties, nevertheless. I can live with that! And like Cannabineer said earlier - I peraphrase here - "Sodium is like a contaminant, it's in everything anyway!".

Thank you again, homebrewer, those links removed any scepticism I may have had earlier. We're all good here!
 
T

T.H.Cammo

Well-Known Member
Sir.Ganga said:
There are many grower that do not know their ass from a micro nutrient and it shows by how they buy their nutrients.
I couldn't agree more!

Dyna-Gro would be considered a mid line product, most of their formula's are rip offs of solutions other companies have invested time and money in.
I can niether confirm nor deny that statement. So I'll just let it be, although it does sound a bit biased.


More research is done on Miracle Grow.
If that were true, wouldn't you think that they would have realized ,by now, that they are completely missing several of the "Essential Nutrients" from thier analysis?

Sadly most people hate Miracle Grow and in the same sentence say how good Dyna is...This just shows peoples knowledge base and skill level.
I don't know that anyone hates Miracle Grow, seems like that would be a huge waste of energy! Prefering Dyna-Gro over Miracle Grow shows a lack of knowledge and a low skill level - is that what you're saying? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one!

If your gonna spend top dollar on nutes, do it with a company that stands out of the crowd by the research they do...Like General Hydro or Advance Nutrients.
Personally, I swore off using "Brand Name" nutrients years ago; when I went organic. I have never used Dyna-Gro or Miracle Grow (for growing cannabis). But I did start out useing "Jack's Classic", back in the days when it was called "Peter's All Purpose".
EDIT - Actually, I still use "a little" FoxFarm "Marine Cuisine" in my soil mix. But that's it.
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Clown Baby

Clown Baby

Well-Known Member
AN contains some heavy metals, too.

Some brands add boron in the form on sodium borate. It could be that they're just letting you know it's in there. Knowledge is power, right? IT's probably better that they list it rather than try to hide what's in their nutes. Full disclosure is a good thing.

As far as nickel and cobalt, I couldn't tell you. I know foxfarm doesnt have them, but analysis of AN nutes shows that they're present in there.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Sir.Ganga said:
Dyna-Gro would be considered a mid line product, most of their formula's are rip offs of solutions other companies have invested time and money in.

IMO
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Best re check your facts. Dyna Gro has been around longer than these 'other' companys you mentioned (not miracle grow). Over 15 years that I know of.

Wet
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
T.H., I might not be able to back up my chromium assertion. I read somewhere (don't know where) that trace chromium was essential for plant health.

However a Google search is turning up no corroborating info that I trust.

Even so, I'll continue formulating my own home blend of micros to contain chromium-III 10ppb. Chromium-VI is a known toxin. cn
 
CoralGrower

CoralGrower

Well-Known Member
I'll have to check my bottles when I get home, but I don't think they list 16 elements on any guaranteed analysis (just re-read your statement and see you stated this same info.)

Just because an element is present does not mean it is bio-available. Air contains about 79% nitrogen and yet I must feed my plants with food containing nitrogen. Egg shells contain lots of calcium yet crushing up a bunch of egg shells in your soil will not prevent calcium deficiencies. These are only a few examples; I'm sure everyone gets the point. Sodium as a metal will explode if you toss it in water, so it is important to understand to what it is bonded, ie: sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, etc... As for the applications to plants.....I dunno!! I let nutrient companies do the work; that is what I pay them for. If their products work as advertised and as needed, I will give them my business. I don't use Fox Farms for ganja, but you should see how beautiful they make my Japanese maples and arborvitae. DG is just one choice out of many on the shelves for ganja growing. The first time I used it, it burned the shit out of my plants...stupid me for following the DG feeding chart published by DG!! I think this is the biggest hurdle in growing; differentiating the limits of the grower from the limits of the nutrient.
 
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