a lot of my fellow tokens are against the war in afganistan

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Okay first time on here. My son lost someone very close to him on 9-11 in the towers. Wanted to join the military the next day. I tried for 3 months to talk him out of it. No GO! Say what you want you un patriotic ass holes! But if you live and breath in the U S you better be thanking our troops for your freedoms. Ya Bitch all you want about our government sucks but our sons are trying to make a difference! Nieve as they may be . Kids trying to do the right thing! Fuck all you negative assholes won't come here again!
What freedoms? The United States has more people in prison than any other country in the world by a huge margin. Per capita or gross, take your pick. Maybe you didn't notice, but almost every freedom you have has been stripped away in the name of this war, so to say he is defending freedom is an absurd joke. He did what he thought was right, he did it for what he thought were good reasons, but he wasn't right and the actual motivations behind this entire disaster are quite awful, so he has unwittingly become a tool for some of the worst criminals in the entire world. It's unfortunate. I wish him the best of luck, he may need it - and I hope he doesn't end up doing anything he regrets.
 

InCognition

Active Member
It boggles my mind when someone comes in here and essentially says "shut the fuck up, how dare you not support our troops!".

Why should someone support the troops outright? What is the reasoning? Surely you can't just say that it's because they're Americans, who are sacrificing themselves for our country, because that is not what they're actually doing... even if they think they are.

What sense does it make to just "shut up and support"? None. The soldiers being "American" has absolutely no bearing on the flawed logic of "shut up and support". People are people, regardless of which country they're from. To defend or support someone without individual, due-diligence just because of the piece of soil they they stand on, is nothing but ignorance.


Unfortunately most soldiers over there have likely joined as a way to make an income. Beyond that, the ones who actually joined to "support this country, and preserve freedom"... I just feel bad for those folks, as they we mentally manipulated into believing that lie of a war, their very own government brainwashed them into believing. It's not anyone else's fault that another person is so easily coerced into doing the dirty work of the government... so why should people instantaneously support those troops who have been coerced into doing so?

Outside of those who joined for income, or as a way to "server this country" & "protect freedom"... there are those who joined because they want to play GI Joe for a salary. I know two people personally who joined the military for this reasoning. I won't go into depth on the subject, but they did not join to "serve", they joined to "shoot the bad guys." It's fucking disgusting that people think war is some GI Joe game for grown ups, which is why don't support them for their "service". When I look through the bullshit facade of their "service", and see the real reason as to why they fight, I just turn my head and could give a fuck if they blow up in the process.

Sure I feel bad for any soldier who gets fucked up in any fashion, while in war. But, if a solider joined for their own selfish reasons or just out of pure ignorance, I result in having no remorse for that type of soldier, rather than sympathy for what their fucked up decisions got them, as a result.

I would like to hear the logic behind some of these people stating "shut the fuck up and support our troops!".
 

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
I would like to hear the logic behind some of these people stating "shut the fuck up and support our troops!".
As would I.

I would be more inclined to "support the families" of the troops. Young Americans signing up and either dying or come back to the US with some sort of physiological disorder(I'm sure the pharma companies are raking it in with these wars too).
 
first of all, i read more supportive comments here than i thought id see. im glad to know that there are still people in the marijuana subculture that support their brothers and sisters despite whether they believe in the wars or not. unity. its something too many of us have lost sight of.

it seems odd to me that people who preach acceptance and tolerance would then shun their countrymen(women). if you dont like the wars and you dont support your troops why do you feel the need to tell everyone? if you dont like the NFL you dont need to get a bumper sticker that says 'F the NFL' just so everyone knows where you stand. who cares? keep it to yourself.

id like to say that we dont do it for the people that would like to spit on us, we do it for the silent majority. however, that wouldnt be the truth. i do it for everyone, whether your path in life has led you to support or hate us. i do it for the kids that run around in the streets in the worst districts/provinces in afghanistan giving us thumbs up on foot patrols and asking our medic to take a look at infected bites and cuts/scrapes theyve gotten. i do it for the elders that thank us for bringing security to towns and villages that havent seen a break in fighting since the russians showed up. i do it for the men and women by my side.

you can tell me that most of us do it for the money (we dont make much for the hours and effort we put in), you can tell me that most of us do it for the free college (many of us already have some college or degrees, we chose to step away), and you can tell me that we do it because we want to kill people (i could have done that at home and saved a hell of a lot of time and effort lol). and when you say those things ill smile back at you and go about my business. i cant say that all of my brothers would do the same, and truthfully they have a right to be upset and defend themselves from unknown people that hate them for no reason. but ive spent the last 5 years of my life defending people from unknown individuals that are filled with senseless anger. it just doesnt make any sense that americans would hate other americans when there are people outside our walls that hate us enough to try and kill us. not just killing our troops, that i can understand. Soldiers enlist or commission knowing that theyre going to be in the line of fire. but those outsiders that hate us want to kill our civilians, our women, our children. you can pretend that they dont want to kill you because up to this point in your life you may not have experienced raw hate like they harbor. but if it wasnt for the men and women serving overseas, the people who work for our security departments, and the civilians that volunteer their time to go to war zones, you very well may see the eyes of a man who will gladly give his life to take yours.

if you just want to be part of a counterculture and shock people there are other ways of doing it. if you disagree with the reasons for going to war then take that issue up with congress and the people who make those decisions. if you hate violence just remember that a good day 'in country' is a day where we dont get shot at, not the opposite. but directing your anger towards soldiers themselves is misplaced emotion.

-11b from zhari
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Behind you and them 100 percent. There was a thread posted yesturday that was exact oppisite and I blasted the punk that started it. He claimed he was going to get a bumper sticker saying he would not support, I told him put it on his car and come over here. It sickens me to think that people sitting around drinking a beer smoking a j are going to think they know shit about what goes on over there.

Good for you

your presumption is that the any of the vast majority of "grunts" over there know any more. Because they feed kids or attempt to get the population to like us., because they observe some small portion of their environment does not mean they know any more about the situation than someone sitting here slamming a bong.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
why should we respect our troops? because they put they're life on the line, take shit from anyone and everyone thats a higher rank, a lot of them get shot at, they always help the people out in the countries they're in (given they're not an ass hole, of course theres ague that rape and murder but thats the same everywhere in the whole world) they have to go through so many horrors and tramatic experiences. they volunteer for this too because they know its right. yes theres ague that do it for the college money ( thats the only real benefit ) everything else that they get for free is only while they're in the military. BUT THE THING YOU SHOULD RESPECT MOST IS THAT THEY GO THROUGH ALL THAT FOR LITTLE FUCKING PUNKS LIKE YOU. my friend has nightmares all the time now! he spent the night at my house one night while he was on leave after a combat tour and woke up screaming from a nightmare he had about the war he went to fight in. but he never complained about any of that. Keep in mind he and a lot of other men in woman go through this for shit pay, temporary benefits and SOME money for college. so next time you want to disrespect a veteran stfu and think about how lucky you are that people volunteer to do this shit so little spoiled shits like you don't have to. you make me sick

here it is... rightist PC in all of its glory. Electrical linemen put their lives on the line every day for our "freedoms", the don't get paid real well, they have to brave storms and adversity and they deal directly with huge amounts of dangerous electricity - so that little shits like me can turn on our big screen tvs at night.


I don't see anyone insisting that we laud them each time we meet them.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
My son did two tours over there. Saw lot's of bad shit. The media doesn't tell you half the shit our boys go through. Until you've been there and experienced it first hand i'd keep my mouth shut and support our troops.
I have no doubt that they saw lots of bad shit, more bad shit than we are aware of. Now why should we support their continuing efforts over there if they are not preserving our freedom? To what end do we send our military? Is it to endure bad shit? I certainly hope not.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
thanking our troops for your freedoms?


This gets so fucking old. I have a host of people to thank for preserving and expanding my freedoms, they include - commuity organizers, lawyers, concerned citizens, preachers, writers and newspaper publishers. They include the ACLU and the NRA and Tax groups and vote watching organizations. Now why should I thank one group exclusively for my "rights"?

Certainly I think the military does a fine job of preventing incursions into my way of life, but that is what they are predominantly for, my way of life, not particularly my freedoms. So thanks all you soldiers, but lets thank those other groups who don't do a couple of tours of duty and then get the rewards, those people who actually live their entire lives in "service" to my freedom.
(just hopping on your bandwagon deprave)
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
What freedoms? The United States has more people in prison than any other country in the world by a huge margin. Per capita or gross, take your pick. Maybe you didn't notice, but almost every freedom you have has been stripped away in the name of this war, so to say he is defending freedom is an absurd joke. He did what he thought was right, he did it for what he thought were good reasons, but he wasn't right and the actual motivations behind this entire disaster are quite awful, so he has unwittingly become a tool for some of the worst criminals in the entire world. It's unfortunate. I wish him the best of luck, he may need it - and I hope he doesn't end up doing anything he regrets.

If anyone has any doubts about this, let them search the oyez project or any other repository of SCOTUS rulings with the word marijuana and see what has been stripped of us.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Here, let's look at this in a rational way.


If we insist on altering cultures in foreign lands, if we insist upon "helping" other countries we could formulate far better ways of doing it then sending testosterone imbued young men with hideously violent weapons out to be our surrogates.

If we are truely interested (which we are not) in bringing fairness to other nations then we will do it by sending other than "troops". We would send adults, we sould send women, we would send people who believe in and practice peace and benevolence with all the support we could muster behind them. We would send oh, I don't know, legions of our citizens who knew the languages and customs of the people we were trying to enlist to our way of thinking.

You don't send the weapon weilding portion of our society in to situations where destruction is not the main purpose of the visit. Do we really think we can get a grip on the situaton there by sending armed emissaries? really? Certainly we shouldn't be stupid enough to send peace makers wihout protection but so long as our military is the only tool in our collection then we will have exactly what we now get as result.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm
-George Orwell
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm
-George Orwell

That was nice in Orwell's time. Now we have our military in a dozen countries where they don't belong and they preserve nothing for anyone.
 

BA142

Well-Known Member
Behind you and them 100 percent. There was a thread posted yesturday that was exact oppisite and I blasted the punk that started it.
Ya know, I'd support it too if we were actually helping people and not digging ourselves into an even larger national debt. We don't have the money to police the globe anymore.
 

BA142

Well-Known Member
an asshole declaring that he deliberately engaged in criminal murder in the theater of conflict, outside the rules of engagement for his own satisfaction. wow. yes thats every soldier. every last one of them.

that twat should have been in the stockade, not on democracy now! he enhances the credibility of Gloria Ironbox's "fuck the military, all soldiers are brutal savages and war criminals" agenda so she is pleased to offer this turd a soapbox.

if that pile of garbage did any of the things he claims, he would be arrested by the fbi, transferred to a military court and made to answer for his crimes. since that didnt happen his tall tales are most likely bullshit, just like John "I Served in Vietnam" Kerry's fish stories about firefights in laos and witnessing murder of villagers and rice farmers.

i call bullshit.
So he served in Iraq while you sat at home and smoked weed but you know more about the war than he does? Get the fuck out of here.
 

InCognition

Active Member
first of all, i read more supportive comments here than i thought id see. im glad to know that there are still people in the marijuana subculture that support their brothers and sisters despite whether they believe in the wars or not. unity. its something too many of us have lost sight of.

it seems odd to me that people who preach acceptance and tolerance would then shun their countrymen(women). if you dont like the wars and you dont support your troops why do you feel the need to tell everyone? if you dont like the NFL you dont need to get a bumper sticker that says 'F the NFL' just so everyone knows where you stand. who cares? keep it to yourself.

id like to say that we dont do it for the people that would like to spit on us, we do it for the silent majority. however, that wouldnt be the truth. i do it for everyone, whether your path in life has led you to support or hate us. i do it for the kids that run around in the streets in the worst districts/provinces in afghanistan giving us thumbs up on foot patrols and asking our medic to take a look at infected bites and cuts/scrapes theyve gotten. i do it for the elders that thank us for bringing security to towns and villages that havent seen a break in fighting since the russians showed up. i do it for the men and women by my side.

you can tell me that most of us do it for the money (we dont make much for the hours and effort we put in), you can tell me that most of us do it for the free college (many of us already have some college or degrees, we chose to step away), and you can tell me that we do it because we want to kill people (i could have done that at home and saved a hell of a lot of time and effort lol). and when you say those things ill smile back at you and go about my business. i cant say that all of my brothers would do the same, and truthfully they have a right to be upset and defend themselves from unknown people that hate them for no reason. but ive spent the last 5 years of my life defending people from unknown individuals that are filled with senseless anger. it just doesnt make any sense that americans would hate other americans when there are people outside our walls that hate us enough to try and kill us. not just killing our troops, that i can understand. Soldiers enlist or commission knowing that theyre going to be in the line of fire. but those outsiders that hate us want to kill our civilians, our women, our children. you can pretend that they dont want to kill you because up to this point in your life you may not have experienced raw hate like they harbor. but if it wasnt for the men and women serving overseas, the people who work for our security departments, and the civilians that volunteer their time to go to war zones, you very well may see the eyes of a man who will gladly give his life to take yours.

if you just want to be part of a counterculture and shock people there are other ways of doing it. if you disagree with the reasons for going to war then take that issue up with congress and the people who make those decisions. if you hate violence just remember that a good day 'in country' is a day where we dont get shot at, not the opposite. but directing your anger towards soldiers themselves is misplaced emotion.

-11b from zhari
Why should people keep it to themselves? If the troops can embrace support with open arms, but despise opposition... what type of hypocrisy is that? It's pretty far up on the hypocrisy pole, that's for sure.

It's great that you do the job to help others, but we need to help the people who contribute to this country first, not others. Again charity is great, but not when it draws finances from where it originates, and gains it's possibility to exist in the first place... that first place is America.

I don't hate troops for no reason. In fact as people I don't genuinely hate them. I forgive them because they simply are confused/ignorant.

What I don't like regarding the military and the people who join, is the fact that they believe in the facade of "protecting this country & it's people" like you just stated. That is a lie the government has pandered for decades. The last time this country was protected, was WW2... everything since then was just one big lie, and the government got all their military-sheep to shed blood on behalf of those lies. I know it's hard to fathom, but truth sometimes is.

The countries we occupy do not hate us just to hate us. They hate us because troops are there on the premise of lies and ignorance. The troops are not protecting the people in this country like you say, by occupying other countries for some lie of a "war". In fact the troops are doing the opposite... they are threatening the lives of Americans by serving in these illegitimate wars. When you occupy countries, and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, you better believe some of those family members of those killed, will in fact become enemies of the United States. These are the people who will plot to kill Americans for the "service" these troops are doing.

I'm more worried about the financial repercussions of war, and it's direct threat on my life here in America via these financial consequences, than I am of some "terrorist" killing me.

The troops are just as worthy of having anger directed towards them, as they are the ones directly enabling the government to carry out their lies, propaganda, and hypocrisy. You can think you and your brothers/sister are defending this country all you want, while involved in the current wars, but that simply is not the truth. The war is nothing but a detriment to this country in every perceivable aspect possible. You've been lied to, and for this I feel sorry. Your ignorance that is preventing you from seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, is the same ignorance that is causing you to defend the fallacy of your belief, in our current wars.

You've been had by the government that you support. It's hard to realize you've been played sometimes.

Those who don't think they got played, because they joined for the salary, or to "shoot the bad guys". They still got played, because they had to risk their lives doing it. Government usery 101 - you and your brothers/sisters were part of the equation unfortunately.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
So he served in Iraq while you sat at home and smoked weed but you know more about the war than he does? Get the fuck out of here.
he didnt serve anything,, he declared that he deliberately murdered unarmed people for his own personal pleasure. he said these things after he returned, very much like john kerry, because he feels he is safe in declaring these things either because they are lies solely designed to inflame the passions of peaceniks and continue their narrative that all war is criminal, and all soldiers are self serving assholes who only delight in killing innocents, or they are true and he thinks the anti-war left will protect him from justice if he sings their song and dances to their tune hard enough.

either way that fucking piece of garbage should be arrested,, transferred to military custody and receive the court martial he richly deserves.

if his story is all lies (which is most likely the case,, as it was for john kerry and his post-vietnam lies) then he should be sent off for psychiatric evaluation, and possible commitment until he figures out the difference between truth and fiction.

if his story is true, then a firing squad is just a conviction away. either way, problem solved.

i would ordinarily advise you to eat a bag of dicks, but you already beat me to it.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
So he served in Iraq while you sat at home and smoked weed but you know more about the war than he does? Get the fuck out of here.

This sentiment is along the same lines as the rest of the "everyone knows the same" argument only worse. Beyond the concept that a talk show host "know as much" as a climate scientist, or that all opinions are equal, or all opinions are worthless "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one", is one where those who are in the middle of a particular situation always know more than those who are observers on the outside.

Stating that someone who is not involved must, by virtue of his situation have less undersanding than someone who is in the thick of it is like saying that a heroin addict knows more about the physiological effects of opiates than a doctor, because the doctor never felt the high.
 
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