A question of light ... and lack thereof.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I think mostly we believe what we as humans want to believe. Even with clear evidence arguments are still manufactured.

If plants are sensing vibrations then like chem said above just the circulation fans and ac in the next room being pumped in with another fan. And the 2 inline fans pulling through the reflectors and out of the room through noisy vibrating flexible duct would drown out the vibrations of anything else I might do.

What about the microwaves and radio waves. Do they sense them too?

I'm getting a headache thinking about all the electrical interference even way out here in the woods.

Are the natural foliage and trees effected positively or negatively by all this? They look pretty green out there.

Anyone have any actual science on this stuff?

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Not me, mine is like you said. What I enjoyed thinking it might be and it was just for my own mental entertainment while growing. If there is any scientific proof to roots following water I'd like to see it also. Creating the scenario to test the theory should be easy to do. I have know clue.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I think mostly we believe what we as humans want to believe. Even with clear evidence arguments are still manufactured.

If plants are sensing vibrations then like chem said above just the circulation fans and ac in the next room being pumped in with another fan. And the 2 inline fans pulling through the reflectors and out of the room through noisy vibrating flexible duct would drown out the vibrations of anything else I might do.

What about the microwaves and radio waves. Do they sense them too?

I'm getting a headache thinking about all the electrical interference even way out here in the woods.

Are the natural foliage and trees effected positively or negatively by all this? They look pretty green out there.

Anyone have any actual science on this stuff?

Click to expand...

First time I've heard of defense through bioacoustics would be the pdf article below, not sure how credible the source is though.


Its strange though in regards to roots responding to water because anything that makes a sound through impact will ALWAYS have different frequencies dependant on velocity,mass,pressure ect. Water dripping from a faucet,hose,gutter or thunderstorm all have different frequencies that aren't even close to each other.

SPLFreak808 said:

First time I've heard of defense through bioacoustics would be the pdf article below, not sure how credible the source is though.


Its strange though in regards to roots responding to water because anything that makes a sound through impact will ALWAYS have different frequencies dependant on velocity,mass,pressure ect. Water dripping from a faucet,hose,gutter or thunderstorm all have different frequencies that aren't even close to each other.

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Neat! Thanks.

well they do make high pitch pest plug ins......so if mj pests have ears thats all that really matters right?

anyone any luck with a plug in , in the grow room? anywhere else?

do they even fucking work?

Don't try to keep orchids if you don't like root management. The roots literally rot if it gets too tightly choked.

I'm busy supporting a friend whose colleague got murdered in front of his 5-year-old son on the way to the bank.
It is a small place, everyone knows everyone. Needless to say, I'm a little upset and don't feel like arguing right now.

Oh yes, if you watched the whole first clips you will see they make a root plug tray with holes in now for commercial use.
My method is too labour intensive for farming. You can use paper planters and plant a field in the time I prepare 50 bags.

If you are growing your own weed or vegetables, my method will give you higher yield out of fewer plants.

ANC said:

Don't try to keep orchids if you don't like root management. The roots literally rot if it gets too tightly choked.

I'm busy supporting a friend whose colleague got murdered in front of his 5-year-old son on the way to the bank.
It is a small place, everyone knows everyone. Needless to say, I'm a little upset and don't feel like arguing right now.

Oh yes, if you watched the whole first clips you will see they make a root plug tray with holes in now for commercial use.
My method is too labour intensive for farming. You can use paper planters and plant a field in the time I prepare 50 bags.

If you are growing your own weed or vegetables, my method will give you higher yield out of fewer plants.

Click to expand...

Sorry about the child and those affected.
Probably not a good debate if it's not proven using MJ.
Instead of this:
If you are growing your own weed or vegetables, my method will give you higher yield out of fewer plants.
I think they want to hear this.
I grow my own weed and my method has given me higher yields out of fewer plants.

It works for most dicotyledon seeds I have tested.
I'm just trying to get people to try my way, I'm not selling or marketing anything.

I pretty much outlined exactly what is needed, it is super cheap, like cents per plant to do, it just takes a little time at first, but once you did it once, you can reuse all the bags and they are already punched so it takes even less second time around.

I've grown everything from cactus to orchids, aquatic plants, and refuse bags full of weed.

If you are simply going to keep plants in pots, I suppose to some extent you can let the roots figure out the best way of dealing with the pot, if you plant straight into your final pot, you will have a reduced root mass, but it will surround the substrate and sit between it and the pot where the water runs past. This is fine for average plants (until you miss a watering).

If you don't want to try it, for whatever reason, that is your choice.

ANC said:

Don't try to keep orchids if you don't like root management. The roots literally rot if it gets too tightly choked.

I'm busy supporting a friend whose colleague got murdered in front of his 5-year-old son on the way to the bank.
It is a small place, everyone knows everyone. Needless to say, I'm a little upset and don't feel like arguing right now.

Oh yes, if you watched the whole first clips you will see they make a root plug tray with holes in now for commercial use.
My method is too labour intensive for farming. You can use paper planters and plant a field in the time I prepare 50 bags.

If you are growing your own weed or vegetables, my method will give you higher yield out of fewer plants.

Click to expand...

I am sorry about your friend and situation.

When you are ready. I already asked your yield numbers and stated mine. Please tell us veg time. Pot size and yield. And outdoor and indoor if done.

i do not believe this will help indoor on a short cycle plant at all.

Outdoor fabric pots for large plants are already the main way. Not holes in plastic containers.

I've done anything from thimble sized to arm sized colas. I can output a specified yield in a specified timeframe. I've been growing LOONG.
This is not pertinent to the discussion, to the extent that it deals with any objections or questions. Also, I am growing as part of a partnership, I will not be popular if I started posting pics and something goes wrong. I will post some down the line when we move the grows into new space maybe.

I will soon start a demonstration setup so that I can simply grow them and cut up or wash out root balls, then we can compare them as they go for everyone's benefit. This way I won't have to struggle to try to convey what is different between just dropping a seed in a pot, and using stepped pots or bags that also air prune before you get to the final pot. If I can stop just one person using solo cups, my work is done.

ANC said:

I've done anything from thimble sized to arm sized colas. I can output a specified yield in a specified timeframe. I've been growing LOONG.
This is not pertinent to the discussion, to the extent that it deals with any objections or questions. Also, I am growing as part of a partnership, I will not be popular if I started posting pics and something goes wrong. I will post some down the line when we move the grows into new space maybe.

I will soon start a demonstration setup so that I can simply grow them and cut up or wash out root balls, then we can compare them as they go for everyone's benefit. This way I won't have to struggle to try to convey what is different between just dropping a seed in a pot, and using stepped pots or bags that also air prune before you get to the final pot. If I can stop just one person using solo cups, my work is done.

Click to expand...

It is exactly pertinent to the discussion. You claim better yield. I have gotten just under 8oz. Dry nugs from a 2.5 gallon pot starting in a plastic solo cup with 3 other plants under a 600hps that all 4 together totaled 22 oz.

Here it is in Metric for you. Best record was Approximately 226 grams from a 9.5 liter final pot. A plastic nursery pot. 4 different medium yielding strains. Projected by the breeder to be between 400 and 600g per meter squared. I did 623 grams in just over a meter squared footprint with 600 watts.

I do not weight tiny or leafy stuff or any trim. There is at least another oz per plant sometimes 2 of small or loose buds. They go into edibles.

What do you get?

Until you answer and it is better than this there is no point to your discussion.

Again. Very sorry about your situation today. I was not pressing for this right now.

MichiganMedGrower said:

This video is about trees. Not indoor grown short flowering annuals.

Got any fully ripe plant pics and the yield numbers to pot size to prove your point?

I got 2 oz. per average plant when I transplanted before the pots were filled and the roots had started winding like I posted above.

The plant I posted did over 6 in the same pots but a little longer in each pot. So maybe 10 days total extra veg time.

It is only a matter of 3 to 6 more days in each size pot. And the average has been consistent for almost 2 years now.

I have tested inadvertently because of rushing a plant through veg like the old way but it hurt yield by ounces.

More roots more fruits is true. Doesn't matter about root pruning for a short cycle plant. If it did food production greenhouses would do it.

Click to expand...

You are 100% correct in your approach to root development and transplant "necessity". I wait until watering every day with the maximum amount that the container/medium will hold for 24hrs is insufficient.

At this point, with healthy "spiraling" roots, they are very vigorous, not "root bound". Root bound plants will display their detriment in protest (fubar'd leaves/slowed growth/less water uptake).



Not joining the "pissing match", but I do not believe @Dr. Who to be full of shit. He comes across as very knowledgeable, experienced, and willing to share for the sake of "positive growth".

The fact that you can get those yields does not mean everyone can, in fact, most won't.
I raise my seedlings indoors and transplant into the soil outdoors when I have the choice.
I am also doing giant SOGs from supplied clones.

I do have numbers, but I still don;t think it will say anything. I noticed a trend in discussions where you get involved when you are presented with new information, you are unwilling to test it out yourself, but you will fight to the death to promote bad practice like letting plants get root bound. You look at the skin of roots and think it looks the same inside. I think I have been gracious in giving you lots of opportunities to leave it be, even going as far as saying I will run some seeds for you so that you only have to watch and learn. I will leave your thread, and you can keep on convincing yourself that doing the minimum amount of effort produces the maximum result.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I think mostly we believe what we as humans want to believe. Even with clear evidence arguments are still manufactured.

If plants are sensing vibrations then like chem said above just the circulation fans and ac in the next room being pumped in with another fan. And the 2 inline fans pulling through the reflectors and out of the room through noisy vibrating flexible duct would drown out the vibrations of anything else I might do.

What about the microwaves and radio waves. Do they sense them too?

I'm getting a headache thinking about all the electrical interference even way out here in the woods.

Are the natural foliage and trees effected positively or negatively by all this? They look pretty green out there.

Anyone have any actual science on this stuff?

Click to expand...

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/science-mimosa-plants-memory-01695.html

Odin* said:

You are 100% correct in your approach to root development and transplant "necessity". I wait until watering every day with the maximum amount that the container/medium will hold for 24hrs is insufficient.

At this point, with healthy "spiraling" roots, they are very vigorous, not "root bound". Root bound plants will display their detriment in protest (fubar'd leaves/slowed growth/less water uptake).



Not joining the "pissing match", but I do not believe @Dr. Who to be full of shit. He comes across as very knowledgeable, experienced, and willing to share for the sake of "positive growth".

Click to expand...

I water differently. I saturate the pot to runoff and then wait until it is very dry. Takes a week for seedlings and about 3 days for mature flowers.

And about the "pissing match". I'm not in one. I'm saying he is lying about tons of stuff he has done. And it's obvious from his posts. Anyone can read and post shit.

So I want proof of his rediculous and ever changing claims. Some of which are direct quotes from me now. And I have only been here a year.

ANC said:

The fact that you can get those yields does not mean everyone can, in fact, most won't.
I raise my seedlings indoors and transplant into the soil outdoors when I have the choice.
I am also doing giant SOGs from supplied clones.

I do have numbers, but I still don;t think it will say anything. I noticed a trend in discussions where you get involved when you are presented with new information, you are unwilling to test it out yourself, but you will fight to the death to promote bad practice like letting plants get root bound. You look at the skin of roots and think it looks the same inside. I think I have been gracious in giving you lots of opportunities to leave it be, even going as far as saying I will run some seeds for you so that you only have to watch and learn. I will leave your thread, and you can keep on convincing yourself that doing the minimum amount of effort produces the maximum result.

Click to expand...

You don't know what I research and experiment with. I have a new plant every week or two to try things on for years now.

But I don't waste my time on things not proven to help.

Obviously from your post you can't beat my yield with your supposedly better technique so you try to call me out.

And I don't even Grow for yield. My plants are all at different stages of growth and I never use any additives or boosters. Doesn't even seem to matter what seeds I use. All the popular ones I have tried and a few obscure ones all fit into my average.

Seems to me all the growers pushing their special knowledge and technique are in their own way.

And the old school growers not trying to teach anything new and using standard procedures have the best results.

I just went back to hps only to see if metal halide or cmh really was better now that I have used a fuller mixed spectrum for a year.

I am always testing and dialing in. Why would I want to work more for no gains?

Truth is everyone can get my yields. I am comparatively new to growing. It's this forum bullshit that is in their way.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I saturate the pot to runoff and then wait until it is very dry... 3 days for mature flowers.

Click to expand...

I transplant at the "24hr" necessity, Solos-1gal-5gal (very heavy drinkers/yielders end up in 15gal). ~2 weeks into bloom they require daily watering (even in 15gal). 5gal (Homer's) max for daily watering is 2200-2400, if their requirements exceed that they are too dry to hold a "prime". The 15's are 2-2.25 gallons daily. Largest necessary was 20gal with 3gal daily. 5-6 week veg, average height ranges from 5'-8' (strain dependent), circumstance sometimes leads to taller/larger plants. I generally don't "share" so much, but this is one facet that is very difficult to replicate.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I just went back to hps only to see if metal halide or cmh really was better now that I have used a fuller mixed spectrum for a year.

Click to expand...

The environment, watering, feed, etc. has to be adjusted to facilitate the HPS intensity/heat/growth, or the outcome will be "flawed". 1000k? Digital? What type of bulb? Vented?

Odin* said:

I transplant at the "24hr" necessity, Solos-1gal-5gal (very heavy drinkers/yielders end up in 15gal). ~2 weeks into bloom they require daily watering (even in 15gal). 5gal (Homer's) max for daily watering is 2200-2400, if their requirements exceed that they are too dry to hold a "prime". The 15's are 2-2.25 gallons daily. Largest necessary was 20gal with 3gal daily. 5-6 week veg, average height ranges from 5'-8' (strain dependent), circumstance sometimes leads to taller/larger plants. I generally don't "share" so much, but this is one facet that is very difficult to replicate.

Click to expand...

I tend to veg 6 weeks from Fem seed or until I see preflower pistils and end up with approx 30" plants. If I go 8 weeks in the same pots I would have to water an average of every 2 days not 3.

But I did not yield much more in doing so.

Odin* said:

The environment, watering, feed, etc. has to be adjusted to facilitate the HPS intensity/heat/growth, or the outcome will be "flawed". 1000k? Digital? What type of bulb? Vented?

Click to expand...

Been using 2 air cooled blockbuster 6 reflectors loaded with a Hortilux 600w super hps and a 600 Hortilux blue mh for a while now. Run on galaxy select a watt Grow amps electronic ballasts.

I had a sun system 315 LEC in there with both configurations of bulbs in an additional 3x3 spot but removedbit for the summer.

The room is fresh air vented and I use a whole house humidifier and de humidifier to keep us and the plants at 50-60% rh and the Grow rooms stay at 74-77 degrees farenheight lights on and 64 to 70 lights off. Air conditioning for the house and rooms is used in summer.

I am just going back to what I used for my first 2 years is all. I have only used the different bulbs this year.

MichiganMedGrower said:

You never stop making claims that are obviously not true.

Next instead of trying to tell me I'm in a pissing match with you you will call me a hater because I think you are full of shit.

You want credibility? Show your real garden complete with your old "special" air cooled hoods and your custom mercury vapor bulbs with the outer jacket removed.

And in real time. Not days later. Like in the 5 minutes it would take you to go outside to your "purpose built building".

And it would help if you stopped lying about all your studies and tests.

I'm waiting.....

Click to expand...

What claim? I "claimed" nothing in that last post.

You've seen the pics of hoods and MV's under them. NO outer jackets removed and I never "claimed" to actually run them with removed outer glass!

At each step I've fallen for your demands, you make more.....The point is that nothing I would do would stop you on your "mission" to discredit me. So - NO.....I'll continue to post what I want, when I want.

I have NOTHING to "prove" to YOU or anyone else.

I never called you a "hater"!

I asked for the information you used to imply/say that there is a safe method other then chemicals to create S1 seeds. I even, politely Thanked you for it in advance.

I know whats going to happen now. Your going to comeback with more accusations, call ME names and question my authenticity.

Here's what I think. You're a lonely, hurt man. Somewhere in your past, you got shit on. It's been with you ever sense and has shaped you into what you are today.

When I look back at how I answered questions here, how I reacted to some by assuming "I" knew what they were and what they actually knew.

I feel bad about how I treated them.

You know how I realized I was doing this? By the way you attack others you don't agree with. It made me feel ashamed for how I treated others.
It's NOT who I really am. It's not who I want to be!

I sure as hell don't expect you to stop. So, in the spirit of this site.......Do what works for you!

Troll to your hearts content!