A test in progress.... Miracle Grow soil vs. Fox Farms soil. Is MG really that bad?

jawbrodt said:

^They don't look too bad, but, I'd like to suggest a transplant. All that sand in there is creating a really dense growing medium, and it looks to be having issues already.(yellowing leaves, slow growth, etc) Although you'd think the drainage would be excellent, I'm betting that it stays wet for a long time, and the center probably stays damp, constantly, due to lack of aeration. Perlite is the way to go, my friend. Even road gravel, would be better than using sand. I used sand to get rid of fungus gnats, and trust me, it severely clogged up the upper portion of my soil. I didn't expect it either, but it happened. Transplant to a medium with excellent drainage, and you'll be surprised at the difference in growth, in two weeks. Drainage, is what is going to put the MG soil, on par with the FF soil, in this test.

Just trying to help ya out, man. Otherwise, you'll likely be struggling with deficiencies/problems, for the rest of your grow.

I also agree that the lights need repositioned. They should always be as close as possible, and focused on the main grow tip first, then work your way downwards, towards the base. You're doing pretty good for a first time, though. Good work.

Click to expand...

Thanks J! I read in some dumb thread somewhere to us half and half MG and sand. I actually have been considering a transplant but I'm afraid of stressing my plants or worse ruining the root system. Plus if I transplant I'd have to go up to 5 gallon pots and quite honestly I don't have the room at the moment. I feel like riding this out and consider it a learning experience. Would you have any other suggestions for being able to increase drainage, aeration, and to lower grow medium density?

LOL about the road gravel BTW.

One last question... if I want to harvest by the end of the year due to my lease ending... when should I realistically put these plants to a 12/12 schedule and induce flowering?

2 weeks ago.

I'm guessing in another 2 weeks?

bigv1976 said:

2 weeks ago.

Click to expand...

Shit seriously? Guess I'm putting them in total darkness starting tonight... what's better 36 hours or 48 hours for the first dark period before 12/12?

I have never heard of that before. I was just kidding with the 2 weeks ago. I dont even know what you are growing.

bigv1976 said:

I have never heard of that before. I was just kidding with the 2 weeks ago. I dont even know what you are growing.

Click to expand...

Neither do I lol. It was bagseed and I'm only growing 3 plants praying for at least one girl. How long is the longest flowering stage typically? I just counted and I have 78 days to resign my lease or move. I need to harvest before that time.

Begin flower tonight. Some strains take 12 weeks, but normally only sativa dominant. Better be safe then sorry.

gumball said:

Begin flower tonight. Some strains take 12 weeks, but normally only sativa dominant. Better be safe then sorry.

Click to expand...

Have you heard of giving plants a solid 36-48 hour dark period prior to a solid 12/12 light cycle? Also what about my bulbs? Should I switch all of my 6500k spectrum CFL bulbs to the 2700k spectrum CFL bulbs? Or do a combination?

I have yet to run into a bag of MG that had bugs. I buy mine from a Lowe's that realy busy, so it probably doesn't have time to set around long at the store.

jawbrodt said:

^Excellent post Jack, and welcome to the thread. I must admit, I'm a bit jealous of your runoff setup. Very nice. I've been wracking my brain, trying to come up with an easy way to do the same with my own room, but it's tough, to say the least. I'll come up with somethinmg, eventually.lol Ya know, you mentioned something else that I've been wanting to test....the MG perlite. I've been thinking about doing another test, this time, with MG soil, MG perlite, and MG nutes. The only other nute I'd be using, would be Calmag Plus, because I believe MG to be somewhat lacking the appropriate levels of those.(Ca and Mg) Hmm...... *scratches chin*

Anyway,...stay tuned, they're really starting to take off now. More pics, coming soon.

Click to expand...

jawbrodt,

Thank you for starting this thread. It's funny because for a while now I've been thinking about getting a bag of one of these cannabis specific potting mixes and putting 2 or 3 plants in it during a grow cycle to see if it would give noticably better results than the MG.

While the MG potting mix is probably the most cost effective (read cheapest) mix out there that's readily available I don't think the MG perilite is a very good deal. You pay quite a bit for that small bag of it when compared to what you can get regular, untreated perlite for at a regular plant nursery.

I've used almost all those MG products at one time or another and can tell you (now, after a couple years experience) that where I wasn't getting the best results early on it had much more to do with me not really knowing what I was doing and having the other factors dialed in than it did with any supposed problems with the MG products.

What you've been saying about the Calmag has got my attention. Especially since I'm watering with rain water (and snow melt during the winter). I'm starting to get some slight purpling on the stems of my upper fan leaves and have begun to suspect a slight Mg deficency. Was thinking of giving a couple of them a dose of Epsom salts (at 1/4 teaspoon/gallon) to see if it helps. I just checked my "Jack's Classic" fert label and it has no Mg in it. Not sure just how a Ca deficency looks so I guess I need to go re read up on the nutrient excess/deficency tables. Anything you can elaborate on in this area will be appreciated.

I'm not really married to that "Jack's Classic" (20-20-20) fert either. I just happened to come across a tub of it early this year (1.5 lbs. for $10) while shopping for vegetable plants for the out door garden. Over the years I've heard a lot of good things about their products and just thought I'd give it a try. I think their "Clasic" blend may have a little to much P & K in it that might end up causing some potential lock out of other things. They've got some other blends that have less of those two macro nutrients in them that I'm considering trying next time around. Some one else mentioned Alaskan Fish Fertilizer (5-1-1) and I've had good results using that in MG potting soil in the past.

Cobbling together a cheap, effective drain table isn't as hard (or complex) as you might be thinking. Some 2 x 4's, a sheet of 1/2" plywood, some plastic rain gutter, heavy black plastic sheeting, and some shooter screws is pretty much all it took to build mine. The big trick is to keep it as low as possible so you don't use up the head spacing for your lighting.

My main table is 3' x7' and the back legs are cut 1" longer than the front ones so it slopes toward the front (where the rain gutter is attached with a slight slope in it toward the center). I would have liked to make it tall enough to drain to a 5 gallon bucket but that would have eaten up to much head spacing. I've been meaning to get one of those gray "bus tubs" to act as a bigger catch basin but haven't gotten around to it yet.

After watering and dumping out the run off I always rinse out that clear tub I'm using and refill it with a half inch of water with a couple of drops of dish soap in it. It ends up being pretty effective at catching those pesky fungus gnats.

Those white rings you see are just slices off of PVC pipe. I use them to block the containers up off of the surface of the table so they drain good and allow air to circulate under the container.



Jack out.

Afghani,

If I were in your position I'd switch to 12/12 today. And I'd skip that extended dark period nonsense. Leave the lights come on at the same time and just reset the timer so that it goes off after 12 hours. With in 10 to 14 days you ought to be able to determine sex (well that is unless there's not some thing else you're doing that's horribly wrong).

Jack

3 days later...


Okay, it's been almost 3 days, and since I managed to scrape up the money to get my DSL turned back on, you guys get some pics.lol Man, I would've been freaking without internet, til Monday. <---(no, that's not the blowjob emo, even though it look like it.lol) Anyway,... They are growing a little over 1/4" each day, and there are some differences starting to show, finally. The MG plants look to be a little bigger, but also look to be showing a little bit of yellowing. What does that mean? IDK, I'd assume that the greener plants would be taller, but that's not the case. I have my theories, but it's too early to tell. We'll just let them go for a few days, and see which direction things head. They are in need of a full watering tomorrow, which I think, will change things a little. Maybe, maybe not. We'll just have to wait and see.

The first 4 are the FF plants, the second 4 are the MG plants, and the ones closest to the camera(in the pics of all 4), are the FF plants.....

Here's the pics of all 4.....

awesome...yellowing isn't good, but not catastrophic, and they're bigger...so far so good....could the yellow be a nitrogen def?

thats what I was going to ask. say the yellowing is a nitrogen def in the MG, or the ffof for that matter. you will supplement so they dont get worse, right? i wouldnt think your out to blatantly kill any plants, but people get their kicks in a multitude of ways they do look good

I think you should let it be and test how bad it will get without difference...its cold, its calculating, but its science... on the other hand treading one for nitrogen def would let us know if thats actually what it was....so either gives us valuable data...

Great point ravenmochi!

I can fast forward your experiment.

I grew these 5 plants this summer in 5 gallon buckets in Miracle Grow potting soil, from seeds. I used some plain soil to germinate the seeds, but I transplanted into the miracle grow when they were 2 weeks old. Didn't feed the plants after that for two months. By then they were over six feet tall. Then I used miracle grow that you mix with water to feed them after that, but I only fed them that a couple times before I switched to blooming nutes. For flowering I used some stuff called Super Bloom that you mix with water. I used the same stuff on some strawberrys that I grew.

I was growing in the woods with about 5-6 hours of direct light. They bloomed really early because not only was the direct light limited, but it had less total light than if in the open.

I got over 2lbs, which I think is great for 5 gallon buckets, with limited light. I had to bury the buckets and stake because the plants got so top heavy. Tallest plant was over 8ft. Strain was Kaya Gold from Nirvana Seeds.

gumball said:

thats what I was going to ask. say the yellowing is a nitrogen def in the MG, or the ffof for that matter. you will supplement so they dont get worse, right? i wouldnt think your out to blatantly kill any plants, but people get their kicks in a multitude of ways they do look good

Click to expand...

Well, here's my plan....I'm not going to let 'em die, that's for sure. But, I'm also not going to panic, even though they look to be getting a little hungry, possibly needing a little nitrogen and magnesium. I'm going to water them today, and I believe, that'll allow them to feed. What I plan to do in the meantime, is to start foliar feeding, in hopes that it'll keep 'em green. I know that there's no way that soil is depleted already, and IMO, they're hungry because they are growing rapidly, and the roots are been restricted, due to all the dry areas in the pots. I'm betting that a good watering, will allow the roots to spread into new areas of soil, enabling the plants to feed, correcting any deficiencies. The foliar will help maintain them. I'm expecting alot of growth in the next two weeks, growth that will shed light on our experiment, illuminating differences between the two mediums. If they start taking a turn for the worst,....yes, I'm going to save them. But, they'll be going on 12/12 in about 3 weeks, so I'm hoping they'll be fine, til then. If anything, I might give them all a dose of Calmag, but am trying to hold back, if I can. I'm going to water them tonight, and then we'll give 'em another week and see what happens.