A test in progress.... Miracle Grow soil vs. Fox Farms soil. Is MG really that bad?

RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
jawbrodt said:
Agreed. Also, he should start a new thread, because alot more guys would see it. You'll get alot more help,that way. :)
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If you got time to defend your thread, you got time to take pictures, less talky talky, more picy picy...:fire: Now get back to work!!
†LOL† j/k, couldn't help it....namely 'cause I'm waiting on someone...to post pictures.... :blsmoke:
 
jawbrodt

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys, you're all going to have to wait a few more hours, 'cause it's almost time to chat with my online hottie, which holds priority over you're ugly asses. :razz:

Haha! Be patient, they're coming. Just think,...every hour you wait, is an hour that the MG pulls ahead.
 
jawbrodt

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
Well, all of us Fox Farms lovers,(myself, included) are in for a sad-awakening, because as you look at these pics, it's undeniable, that Miracle Grow soil is kicking ass. Holy fuck, right? I don't think I need to say any more, these pics speak for themselves...


*runs into a corner, and pouts* :wink:
 

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Skoad

Skoad

Well-Known Member
This will be very interesting. My first grow was with MG soil and I am going to switch back after this grow. Last 3 grows I have used Fox Farm and havnt yielded even close to my first grow. *check my sig, near end of thread*. First grow they were extremely bushy and the buds were amazing.
 
jawbrodt

jawbrodt

Well-Known Member
^Those turned out great, man. Nice thick colas. :weed: I'm pretty sure I'm switching back, too, after seeing this for myself. BUT, I'm only goingto do it if I can find some dry MG soil somewhere, or at least, some store that keeps theirs inside. I don't want those damn fungus gnats again, and will stick with FF if I can't find a way around them. If I had a place to bake the MG soil, I'd do it, but don't have that option, atm. Very interesting test though, huh?


Next, I might try something similar, except using MG ferts. I figure I might as well prove their worthiness, as well, because I know they'll do just as well as my Dynagro nutes, if mixed properly. Hmm.... *scratches chin*
 
NLNo5

NLNo5

Active Member
Jack in the Bud said:
jawbrodt,

Well I've got my gardening chores done for the day and my morning cookie has kicked in nicely. I'm feel'n a bit wordy so I hope you don't mind if I twist your ear a bit more.

Watering.....While it hasn't happened on all my plants, a couple of them have had a few of the lower (first to grow) leaves yellow, wilt and fall off the plant. This usually seems to happen with in a day or two of having watered. While it would be nice to know exactly what the cause of this is I'm not to concerned about it. Especially since all the foliage up where the buds are growing is looking extremely good. I think it may have something to do with the fact I've got my plants pretty close together and as they're now in the 2 to 3 foot tall stage not much light is getting down to them.

Another factor may be that because when I water I always do so until at least a pint runs out the bottom of the pot it may be that for the first day or two after watering the soil is too saturated and the plant drowns a little bit (roots aren't getting all the oxygen they need). One of the leading causes of people's regular house plants dying (or not thriving) is because they over water them and essientially drowned them out (I know I've killed my share of them that way).

What's happening to some of my MJ plants lower leaves is very similar to what happens to my regular house plants (spiders, aloe, wandering jew, etc.) if I over water them and keep them to wet.

I think some thing similar to this may be contributing to that one lower leaf yellowing you had on that one plant. Especially since you have such a small plant (who's watering needs aren't real great yet) in such a large container. Being as your plants have so much fresh soil aound them at this stage for the roots to grow out into and find nutrients in I just don't see how a nutrient deficency can be causing it.

I know one of my biggest mistakes in the past has been giving my plants to much extra nutrients to soon, getting the salts in the soil to build up, and then have them suffer down the line from a combination of fert burn and nute lock out.

How much to water (and how often) is a really tricky thing to find the best balance on. And I'm not sure I've got it all the way figured out yet myself. And there's just so many other factors effecting it that are particular to each indivual grow (and grower) that it can get really confusing real quick.

I don't like letting mine dry way out (like a lot of people recomend) before watering because MG potting soil tends to form super dry pockets down in the pot that won't easily re wet . You know you've got this condition going on when you water and it runs right out the bottom. The water should take 30 seconds or so to percolate down thru before it begins dripping out the bottom. If you don't get these dry pockets re wet the roots that are already in them will die and new roots won't want to grow out into them. Every now and then I get a couple containers that have dried out to far and the only way I've found to fix it is to set the plant in an inch or so of water for an hour or two and let it suck it up from the bottom.

I try like hell to avoid this happening (because it causes root damage) and is the main reason that when I do water I water until I've got good run off. The down side to that though is that for a day or two after watering the soil is a little to wet and the root system gets slightly drowned. Adding extra perlite/vermiculite helps with this (and is the reason I'm going to add more of it next time around). Of course the more perlite/vermiculite you add the faster the dry pockets will form so you have to water more often to avoid them. Personally I like my set up to be able to go with out me for at least 4 to 5 days at a time so I can travel around and go places.

I'm not saying that having those 4 plants in your experiment in those bigger sized containers while they're this small is a bad thing it's just that I think it may be working against you a little bit as far as keeping your soil moisture at an optimum level. But if I had to choose between my plants getting a little to much water or not quite enough I believe I'd choose slightly over watering them.

Jack
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I use a "Hudson" sprayer for my watering and keep it set on spray. I spray the top soil evenly and let the pot get heavy. I let it sit for a while and spray it again evenly. After 2-4 sprayings the water starts to run out the bottom of the pot. Then I spray it one last time to get a little flush going. Then I tilt the pots at a 25 degree angle and let them drain for half an hour. This seems to get them good and watered. I use about 1/3 MG. 1/3 castings and 1/3 pearlite. Pots seem to drain well with the castings and pearlite mixed.

I never have aproblem with the MG because I supplement with castings and pearlite. If your worried about bugs you can get a big ass turkey pan fill it with the soil and bake it a 250 for 2 hours. Kills everything, but you pay for the Watts. The castings you add later will reintroduce the microbes. Then do a watering or two with molasses to get the soil microbes nice and plentiful.
 
NLNo5

NLNo5

Active Member
@ Jawbrodt,

I can get the MG anywhere, I can get it from my neighbor if I need it bad. If you toss in some castings and pearlite to your MG soil it really takes it to the next level. You are going to get bad batches of MG thats understandable considering its an economy mass produced soil. The FFOF is a specialty soil and frequently not stored in the rain so naturally its less likely to have rot and bugs. But if you select your MG from a dry supply house that has a quick turnover of soil bags then its most likely going to work fine.

I just found a place close to home that sells the FFOF for a dollar a pound about twice as much as the MG. I'll be getting that next time around just for shits and giggles. But I'll never be afraid to use the MG. MG has done me well for a long time provided you supplement it with the castings and pearls.
 
NLNo5

NLNo5

Active Member
jawbrodt said:
Well, all of us Fox Farms lovers,(myself, included) are in for a sad-awakening, because as you look at these pics, it's undeniable, that Miracle Grow soil is kicking ass. Holy fuck, right? I don't think I need to say any more, these pics speak for themselves...


*runs into a corner, and pouts* :wink:
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FFOF is so rich that it almost needs to be mixed with some lighter items to reduce the abundance of hot shit in the soil. I think it's a real shock for the plants if you use it straight. If I do get the FFOF I'll be giving it a good leach before I pot my plants. I'll probably mix in some MG to dilute it down a little bit.
 
RavenMochi

RavenMochi

Well-Known Member
jawbrodt said:
^Those turned out great, man. Nice thick colas. :weed: I'm pretty sure I'm switching back, too, after seeing this for myself. BUT, I'm only goingto do it if I can find some dry MG soil somewhere, or at least, some store that keeps theirs inside. I don't want those damn fungus gnats again, and will stick with FF if I can't find a way around them. If I had a place to bake the MG soil, I'd do it, but don't have that option, atm. Very interesting test though, huh?


Next, I might try something similar, except using MG ferts. I figure I might as well prove their worthiness, as well, because I know they'll do just as well as my Dynagro nutes, if mixed properly. Hmm.... *scratches chin*
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Awesome, fucking awesome. I've been using it because it was the only thing convenient, but now I'm glad about it...I look forward to the next test...You keeping it in this thread? Might as well, have enough people subbed already, would make it convenient for us at least... :blsmoke:

As far as the baking the soil idea....that sound like it will work for me...
 
i8urbabi

i8urbabi

Well-Known Member
wow those are turning out nice! people need to keep in mind that MG prolly has been around longer than alot of soil brands, usually leading to better experience at what they do. but who knows really
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
The color in the MG plants is remarkably different. They seem to be a darker green.

The results so far do not surprise me. I'm sure there are several people that are VERY surprised.
 
Jack in the Bud

Jack in the Bud

Active Member
jawbrodt said:
^Those turned out great, man. Nice thick colas. :weed: I'm pretty sure I'm switching back, too, after seeing this for myself. BUT, I'm only goingto do it if I can find some dry MG soil somewhere, or at least, some store that keeps theirs inside. I don't want those damn fungus gnats again, and will stick with FF if I can't find a way around them. If I had a place to bake the MG soil, I'd do it, but don't have that option, atm. Very interesting test though, huh?


Next, I might try something similar, except using MG ferts. I figure I might as well prove their worthiness, as well, because I know they'll do just as well as my Dynagro nutes, if mixed properly. Hmm.... *scratches chin*
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jaw,

I've had some good results using MG All Purpose Plant Food (24-8-16). I've also used the MG Bloom Booster (15-30-15) during flowering but probably won't do so any more. I think it caused me some problems because of the P being so high in relation to the N and the K. Some of my recent reading concerning the use of high P bloom ferts (and the problems they can cause) has influenced this decision.

What does your Dynagrow have for N-P-K numbers and trace elements? Is it a cannabis specific product?

This grow I've given my plants some Jack's Classic (20-20-20). But only real light doses (1/4 tsp./gallon). I think I'm over that also and will probably just use the rest of it up this coming summer on the out door vegetable garden.

My current grow is at around day 105 (from seed in dirt). I'm watering around every 5 to 7 days. Two days ago I feed them a light dose of AFF (5-1-1) @ 1 tsp./gallon. Because the AFF (Alaskan Fish Fertilizer) doesn't have any of the micro-nutrient trace elements in it like MG, Jacks's and most others do I suplemented that with a 1/2 tsp. of Earth Juice MicroBlast. That stuff is just a micro nutrient supplement and doesn't contain any N, P or K. I also added 1/4 tsp./gallon of SuperThrive to the mix. That's the second time I've given this grow any ST and it will probably be the last time. Next watering will just be with plain water with 1 tsp./gallon of molasses added. I'll have to wait and see how they're looking after that before I decide on what else to give them (if any thing). I'm guessing I'm about 4 weeks from starting to harvest some of it. Which means that here in 2 or 3 weeks I need to think about starting another batch of seeds.

Even though the plants you have in MG seem to be doing a little better than those in the FF they all have very good looking foliage. In the past I've had some plants that started out to be kind of the runts of the litter suddenly put on a growth spurt and turn out to be some of the best plants in a grow. Who knows, may be right now the plants in the FF are putting a little more effort in to building a good root system that will sustain them better during flowering. When you finaly get around to harvesting those plants and de-potting them I'd like to see pictures of their respective root balls.

Jack
 
Jack in the Bud

Jack in the Bud

Active Member
RavenMochi said:
Awesome, fucking awesome. I've been using it because it was the only thing convenient, but now I'm glad about it...I look forward to the next test...You keeping it in this thread? Might as well, have enough people subbed already, would make it convenient for us at least... :blsmoke:

As far as the baking the soil idea....that sound like it will work for me...
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Concerning the fungus gnats that usually come with MG potting mix......I'm just not sure baking it to try and get rid of them is really such a good idea. When you do that you're also going to kill off what ever benefical microbes are in the soil also. I know having them sucks but a few of them living in your grow isn't going to hurt any thing. I'm around day 105 in a grow and when ever I tend my plants I see one or two (or three) of them. They're not hurting a dam thing. They're not eating or laying eggs and breeding in your foliage or buds. Now if I started noticing 10 or more every time I went in there I'd feel a little different about it. The only damage they do is to some of the finer root hairs close to the surface of the soil. And you have to get a pretty serious infestion of them before that will really begin to harm a plant.

My advice is to just learn to live with having a few of them. The trick I have found to keep them from ever becoming problematic is to put out some yellow sticky traps (on stakes in the soil) on the very first day when you put the plants in the MG potting mix. If you can catch most of the first ones to emerge and keep them from reproducing they won't become so numerous as the grow progresses to where they become a problem.

I like what's been said about trying to buy only bags of MG that have been stored where they haven't gotten real wet. In the past I've gotten some bags that have been real wet and that seems like the ones I've had the most of them come out of. I've got a 2 cubic foot bag of it sitting out in the garage right now. As a test I'm going to let it sit there all winter and let it freeze good to see if that does anything to get rid of them. It usually get's down to around -30 to -40 for a week or so in January where I'm at (I saw -47 a couple of years back).

Jack
 
TaoWolf

TaoWolf

Active Member
RavenMochi said:
As far as the baking the soil idea....that sound like it will work for me...
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I wouldn't bake anything with time-release nutrients in it (specifically 'prills'). Most prills release NPK at a rate dependent upon temperature. Which isn't a problem in the cold or normal summer temperatures found outside, but extreme temperatures (like in an oven) could theoretically result in a massive release of NPK into the surrounding soil - and it follows that would (nutrient) burn any plants put into it later.
 
N

NewClosetGrower

Well-Known Member
hey jaw...

i took pics of my FFOF vs MG organic 2 days ago. i just measured them a little while ago and the MG has grown over an inch and the FF has grown about 1/2 inch.....i also just planted some lettuce and cucumbers into the MG yesterday and the are already sprouting and some are about to spit the shell...this shit is crazy man, for half the price of FF you really cant beat it..so far anyway...also i have only used MG all purpose plant food, and im about to use MG bloom booster in a few days on the watering after next...thanks for making this thread man, i didnt mean to butt in with my pics and stuff but i figured it would be good for people to see 2 sets of this competition...oh and im starting to flower tonight...my lights will come back on at 8, im going to run them over night because its still hot as shit where i live
 
i8urbabi

i8urbabi

Well-Known Member
im curious if a flush will be easy or not. MG could make it have a harsh hit because of the nutes being timed release?
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
to bad the only food they get in mg is N/P/K. thats 3 of the 17 they need. being around long dont make it a good choice. also they use poor nute sources for thier 3 elements
 
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