A tribute to Uncle Ben and the Almighty Leaf

After reading some of Uncle Ben's teachings on this forum, I've come to the conclusion that him and I are cut from the same cloth. I've always been a big proponent of making sure my plants are healthy and the soil is ripe. After 30 years of growing I've learned that buds mean nothing until after they're harvested. It's all about the leaves. They will give you all the information you need when it comes to condition of your soil, watering requirements, possible infestations and most importantly root performance. I cringe when I see posts dedicated to defoliation but hey, to each his own. If it works for you- go for it. For me, it's all about my leaves. So, as a tribute to Uncle Ben and his Almighty Leaf: no sticky bud pictures, no 10' colas, no guerilla garden- just plain ole' leaves. Enjoy!View attachment 2748570View attachment 2748572View attachment 2748573View attachment 2748574View attachment 2748575View attachment 2748580View attachment 2748585

Nice leafs... I try to keep mine pristine, but they often end up turning leathery and papery. Any idea what might cause that?

Cutting off healthy leaves is profoundly silly...Uncle Ben has done a lot of heavy lifting in his valiant attempt to help well intended but woefully misguided growers.

Thanks for the assist Rocketman.

Malevolence said:

Nice leafs... I try to keep mine pristine, but they often end up turning leathery and papery. Any idea what might cause that?

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The only thing that comes to mind is the plants natural response to heat stress. I suspect that along with curling and eventually turning brown in extreme conditions, the leaves may be developing a natural defense to keep moisture from evaporating too quickly. I'm assuming it may be trying to protect itself. I also suspect this is an indication that the roots are not taking up water at a sufficient level. Pay attention to new growth. Are the new leaves healthy, bright green and soft? Make sure the roots have room to roam a bit. Good, loose, leafy soil allows the primary roots to develop smaller, secondary shoots to seek out even more moisture. If moisture levels become too low in the soil, the plant will slow growth and probably divert moisture to newer growth allowing the older leaves to fend for themselves, so to speak. All this, of course is just an assumption since I know nothing about your grow. Leaves are amazing in their ability to adapt to their surroundings without you ever knowing it. It's also amazing to me they can both absorb as well as evaporate moisture from it's surface. Never let the soil become completely dry, bad things start to happen. Most new growers are quick to jump on the assumption their plant needs some kind of crazy Super Duper Extreme Veg Blaster nutrient formula. Huh? NO! Just keep the root ball moist (not drenched) and make sure your grow medium allows those secondary roots to roam a bit. Maybe Uncle Ben can chime in and either confirm or deny if we're on the right track here. Are you growing indoor or outdoor when your leaves turn leathery?

I grow indoor deep water culture. My temps are hitting 88* but last grow they were more like 81* and the papery leaf thing was worse... different strains. Also I am running silica which should help them handle a little heat. I have notice no leaf taco. I was just wondering if there was a general or common thing that makes old leafs turn papery. The new leaf is soft and supple in veg, but my plants are in bloom right now and just shooting out sugar leaf. The biggest oldest fan leafs are the most leather/paper feeling.

Malevolence said:

I grow indoor deep water culture. My temps are hitting 88* but last grow they were more like 81* and the papery leaf thing was worse... different strains. Also I am running silica which should help them handle a little heat. I have notice no leaf taco. I was just wondering if there was a general or common thing that makes old leafs turn papery. The new leaf is soft and supple in veg, but my plants are in bloom right now and just shooting out sugar leaf. The biggest oldest fan leafs are the most leather/paper feeling.

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Out of my league with the deep water culture. All I can think of when I hear leather/paper feeling is not enough moisture uptake through the roots. How does the root system work in this system? Are they free to expand at their own rate or are they managed/controlled some how?

Malevolence said:

I grow indoor deep water culture. My temps are hitting 88* but last grow they were more like 81* and the papery leaf thing was worse... different strains. Also I am running silica which should help them handle a little heat. I have notice no leaf taco. I was just wondering if there was a general or common thing that makes old leafs turn papery. The new leaf is soft and supple in veg, but my plants are in bloom right now and just shooting out sugar leaf. The biggest oldest fan leafs are the most leather/paper feeling.

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This kind of answers your previous question. Why those leaves go leathery and/or crisp and browning are because you have taken an outdoor environment and stuffed into a room. If your growing indoors and your not pruning or trimming you are losing out on the full potential of this plant, when grown indoors that is. Research and Development is a valuable tool in the advancement of any topic. How is that Model T working for you. Its common sense...that's it. UB has a vast knowledge base, that is for sure, if you follow his instructions and comments you will grow some good cannabis. If you want to LEARN to grow in the year 2013 and want answers to your questions or are looking for every gram for your dollars than there are much better ways to grow than his methods, so please read his comments for enjoyment and look for real answers somewhere else.

Well done! Even though off topic, I just added a few comments here - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-242.html

Those who practice defoliation simply don't understand botany, nor are they interested in it.

Again, if you concentrate ONLY on the leaves and the roots, producing as much as possible and maintaining those units in a healthy condition until harvest, you'll get plenty of bud.

Grow hard,
Uncle Ben

Malevolence said:

Nice leafs... I try to keep mine pristine, but they often end up turning leathery and papery. Any idea what might cause that?

....but last grow they were more like 81* and the papery leaf thing was worse...

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Wrong approach to plant culture..... most liking centered around the wrong choice of salts (food). See my tweaks, first page. BTW, never used silica. Hell, never used much of any thing you good ol boys use.

BTW, 81F is "cold" by my standards, even 88F is great. Never failed, at least once during my garden's life it would hit around 100F, couldn't control it because I lived in a hot area where even the winters would get these very high spikes, hot SW winds coming off Mexico. The second photo on that cola link I gave you shows what such a high heat episode looks like, with upward leaf margin curling/rolling. And once that kind of "aw shit" hits, it will never flatten out. Damage is done. Doesn't really matter in the real world as long as you know that at least 80% of the leaf surface is healthy and conducting photosynthesis. Curl might be there but so is the healthy green leaf tissue.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Wrong approach to plant culture..... most liking centered around the wrong choice of salts (food). See my tweaks, first page. BTW, never used silica. Hell, never used much of any thing you good ol boys use.

BTW, 81F is "cold" by my standards, even 88F is great. Never failed, at least once during my garden's life it would hit around 100F, couldn't control it because I lived in a hot area where even the winters would get these very high spikes, hot SW winds coming off Mexico. The second photo on that cola link I gave you shows what such a high heat episode looks like, with upward leaf margin curling/rolling. And once that kind of "aw shit" hits, it will never flatten out. Damage is done. Doesn't really matter in the real world as long as you know that at least 80% of the leaf surface is healthy and conducting photosynthesis. Curl might be there but so is the healthy green leaf tissue.

UB

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Often wondered what the 'death' temperature is for most cannabis. I get concerned sometimes when my ambient temps outside hit over 95. They never really seem to mind it much. I imagine areas where cannabis grows wild in other parts of the world temps climb into the mid 100's and they tolerate it with no problem. Evolution is a powerful thing.

If there is a light saturation point, is there also a point where the leaves can get too little light?

Light saturation? You mean like light bleaching? Get your tops to close to a HID, and, there you go.... To little light = elongating of stem and dwarfing of leaf production...

Plants are like people, for example, put your hand towards your light source. Where it feels about right, and there is no warmth or discomfort... And that's about where you want the tops of your plants to be at... Now let me ask you, how do YOU personally, like your temps in general as a human being? ...... In your home, Do you like it to be say about a 100 degrees all day. then maybe swing down to 55 at night?..... No you wouldn't, you would probably like it about around 75 or so constantly... That's the temp you would most likely feel and perform best at. It's the same with plants, they like to be babied with nice constant temps, just like people and animals do...

Outdoor cannabis produces a better grade of product, the better the conditions it receives when growing and flowering... There is NO way around that! Weathering, impacts quality, the more weathering the worse it gets. It's as simple as that, it's basic biology, that most anybody that has ever grown anything outdoors will know...

I think one of the problems might be, the disassociation of changing temps and the amount of light produced. Higher temps, usually indicate more light outdoors. But that's not always the case, temps can increase for a number or reasons. And while greater amounts of light are usually productive, especially in areas that don't get as much light... The amount, and intensity of light, is obviously greater at the equator and shorts itself as you move toward either poll.

Vincent VonBlown said:

Plants are like people, for example, put your hand towards your light source. Where it feels about right, and there is no warmth or discomfort... And that's about where you want the tops of your plants to be at...

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No disrepect, but that is another one of those erroneous forum paradigms, parroting, that just won't die. You can have a leaf temperature of 80F but if there's too much light, you'll seriously damage the chloroplasts, bleach out the chlorophyll, and decrease or eliminate photosynthesis entirely resulting in leaf damage or necrosis. I wish people would stop trying to take the easy way out by confusing, equating, light and temps. An HID can easily have more f.c. than the sun. Folks who don't use a light meter won't understand that though.

It's all about a plant's light saturation point. Find it, and stay just below it.

Uncle Ben

I sometimes wondermif UB doesnt make aliases on here to pat himsepf on the back. im pretty high though.

Alienwidow said:

Ya, im engauging you in a debate and i was awaiting an answer. I was poking in the badgers nest. I didnt know likes ment so much to an old fart.

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Engaging in debate? I don't think so. As far as UB shitty sativa pics you haven't grown landrace sativas that much is clear. Most of us old farts are here to help new growers young and old alike, teach and share what we have learned through decades of growing these plants and plants in general. I suggest study a little bit I am pretty certain that we old farts, donkeys or whatever other names you have for people, have forgotten more about plants than you now think you know.

Vincent VonBlown said:

Outdoor cannabis produces a better grade of product, the better the conditions it receives when growing and flowering... There is NO way around that!

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I have a degree in botany and I can say for certain that plants grown under ideal conditions indoors are far more healthy and produce a better product all the way around. Canola is a good example of this, 30 years ago it was not a crop that farmers wanted due to the low yields and harvesting issues. Due to Research and development in a building(indoors) we were able to increase the yields 10 fold. Canola has now equaled the acres of wheat in my province. Why? Because we were able to eliminate outside factors and control the tests properly.

They should just change the name of this section to advanced uncle ben troll tactics and techniques.

Let's see if he gets his own tribute thread locked.