About to bin my 3 month old plant!

Tuckatan said:

Plant is still in veg, my initial thoughts were to fix before flowering, but the fix didn’t go according to plan! lol.

I’m using coco/peat. Is there a benefit to perlite? Im looking for pre mix really, im going to get some on order. I may clone, though would it turn out ok being such an unhealthy plant?

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Perlite has massive benefits will help with drainage it will help your roots breath and stops your coco from becoming really compact after all the watering and it's cheap as chips. Also if it's in veg it will regrow I would keep it maybe take a few clones to grow along side it.

My suggestion for your next grow is to use Peat or Coco, but not a mixture of the two. Get a handle on your pH according to what type of grow you go with (Peat and Coco require different pH's). Buy Peat or Coco without any nutrients already added. Let all your nutrients come from your hand, so you don't have to assume what is or isn't in your mix. I think those things will help you moving forward.

As to your current girl...I'm all for trying to walk away from a seemingly failed situation with the gain of learning something in the process, but it may be best just to say goodbye to her....but if you're stubborn like me, you'll probably keep her around for hope's sake. Good luck friend.

The issue is clearly due to your medium.. doesnt look at all like temps, rh or light issue so by elimination thats the problem.. but what exactly within that hard to tell.. root rot? When you transplanted did you look at your root were they brownish or more white? Otherwise it could be relating to the nutes youre feeding and most likely over feeding rather than underfeeding especially during veg.. I use soil and usually dont feed until couple weeks in veg.. and if I dont I usually only get low N deficiency or slower growth but nothing compared to what you got..

Keeprollinup said:

Perlite has massive benefits will help with drainage it will help your roots breath and stops your coco from becoming really compact after all the watering and it's cheap as chips. Also if it's in veg it will regrow I would keep it maybe take a few clones to grow along side it.

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I would use 300w bulb instead of hps for veg use hps for flower.

First, it is the water. If you don't use bottled water then use tap but know it has to be fixed. Go to the aquarium store and buy something to treat chloramine treated water. Then if you have high ph water (above 7.2) get some plain grocery store vinegar. 1 tablespoon per gallon will drop the ph down to a tolerable six point something or lower.

Don't poison your plants.

Thank you for all your helpful replies guys.

So I’ve got some cana coco pro plus coco coir being delivered tomorrow, may have to add some perlite for airation... would it be something around 70/30 coco/perlite? There will be no nutrients in this medium, so I can control what goes in, because I’ve felt like it was a bit of a guessing game with the hot medium I was using.

With regard to the water, i started with high 450ppm tap, with so much calcium in it, then moved to de-ionised, always with around 1/4 to 1/2 strength nutes, now it’s rain water as I have a water butt, and was buying the deionised! Nothing seemed to alleviate any symptoms. Once this deficiency took hold, nothing seemed to stop or even slow it. Adding a touch more P, flushing, changing water, re potting, the brown splosges just start appearing again and ultimately the leaves just die out. All going twisty and bunch at the growth tips.

When I reported, the roots all looked white. Nothing looked brown or sick.

Maybe the calcium from the initial tap water is built up in the medium I couldn’t remove from the root ball and locking out phosphorous? I just really don’t know! The repotting was over a month ago, and the half the plant that started growing back, initially looking good, went straight back to the same issue.

I can’t fethom I have over nuted, though I initially didn’t feed bites with tap water. The first time I gave quarter strength nutes, it burned and hooked.

Problems really took hold when I took advice to foliage feed Epsom salt solution. Very mild, but instantly seemed to kill the leaves and it never recovered.

I’ve taken a clone in a glass of rain water. If she doesn’t root I’ll start from scratch along side, just to see if there is any improvement.

The best lessons are learned in failure I guess!

Again, thanks for all the help guys. Appreciate all of you!

Tuckatan said:

Been struggling for a while with certain deficiencies, I think feeding it my 450ppm tapwater for first 2 months locked out nutrients.

Should I bin this or what? Even new growth is hooking. Most fan leaves have been lost due to the issue shown in the pic of the single leaf.

Any idea what it is? I’ve fed it no nutes for
The past week, just DI water and it’s not getting better. Worse in fact.

Medium is Coco/peat with guano amongst other things. 250w hps, temp humid fine, ph fine, runoff ph fine. Runoff currently at 350ppm after flush 1 week ago.

Should I just bib and start over?

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YIKES! 450 ppm water? Good call sir..

#1: You never know just what is in that water, unless you have it tested BUT,
#2: 150 ppm is generally considered as the dissolved solids limit (ppm) in water to accurately grow in. This is true for all container plants!

Solve your water issue and dial in the grow from there.......

The worst I have seen ppm wise....These folks lived in a newly reclaimed, forest subdivision.....The well was shallow and the right from the tap (with a softener) was in the 870's... Kinda yellow looking water too.

Set up a dbl prefiltered RO system with a 100gal a day booster pump.....You had to change the membrane every 3-4 months (used an inline ppm meter to watch the ppm levels as the membrane aged).

The whole basement was converted into a grow. Sealed and filtered exhaust. Place was a great set up. They moved and I rented the place out for the basement for a time. Had an employee live there and work the op...They decided to sell and I didn't like the price....

Yea, 450ppm, i took to the website to check the waters composition (attached), after blindly feeding it to the plant without as much as a Ppm meter! I was considering an RO setup, after spending so much on deionised water. £2 per 2.5l soon mounts up! I have a water butt now with rain water sshowing a PPM of 012.

Sounds like you’ve run some big operations, and although the mrs says I treat the plant like a baby, and moaning about how much I’m spending on it, couldn’t keep her healthy!

And Jesus 870 ppm! I thought I had it rough!

One question is still have, perhaps you could answer for me-

I see PPM in veg should be around the 900’s? Well my rain water starts at 012, and if I nute it up, it sits around 050ppm. My current medium is hot, and has guano, calcium and magnesium etc all in it, and run off ppm was around 950-1100. I have a new medium on route, with no added nutrients. How would I get the PPM up to a decent range? I can’t imagine the run off being in that ball park with no nutrients in the soil, and if that is the case, how would I ever get my PPM up to that level? Surely I can’t add 10x strength nutrients? lol.

I use GH flora micro/veg/bloom, and calmag.

Edit - my new medium on route is Cana coco pro plus, coco coir, not soil!! I would edit the original post, but editing/creating long posts is an absolute nightmare on iPhone. Lol

hmmm, do some math. not sure if you'd be better off buying an ro system, or just buying bottled water. guess it depends on the size of your grow. i have a small ro system that only produces 4 or 5 gallons a day, and i only use about 1 gallon a day, for my humidifiers. we have very low ppm and i only have to change the filters once a year. if you're using gallons a day, with that kind of ppm, you're going to be chewing through filters in a moth, maybe two at most. some filters are as cheap as 20 bucks, but i question their effectiveness. decent ones are at least 40 per, and up.

Tuckatan said:

Edit - my new medium on route is Cana coco pro plus, coco coir, not soil!! I would edit the original post, but editing/creating long posts is an absolute nightmare on iPhone. Lol

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I am not a fan of Coco.....Not at all.
The best thing to actually learn in (it's forgiving)?

A basic potting soil _ NO MG products or any that have a timed release nutrient.

FFOF
FFHF
Black Gold
Dr. Earth's POTting soil
The go to local around here is Potter's Gold

I build my own soil's
Use basic for synthetic use, and build water only soils for my organic run's.

Your going to find needed use of a Ca/Mg product for coco. 5 ml a gallon in coco?
Does that nutrient have added Ca/Mg? Botanicare KIND does....
Be sure to pH for coco/hydro Say set to 5.8 and let it rise to about 6.2 and readjust....You want that swing.
I have never been a follower of any run-off metering......

Follow nutrient instructions and adjust to strain needs...
Keep the pH in range.

Coco will most likely need a leeching of build up now and then....

Yes 70-30 coco to perlite ....

There are those much better at coco advise then I.....I'm only sharing the little solid knowledge I learned the hard way.... I went back to soil....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

hmmm, do some math. not sure if you'd be better off buying an ro system, or just buying bottled water. guess it depends on the size of your grow. i have a small ro system that only produces 4 or 5 gallons a day, and i only use about 1 gallon a day, for my humidifiers. we have very low ppm and i only have to change the filters once a year. if you're using gallons a day, with that kind of ppm, you're going to be chewing through filters in a moth, maybe two at most. some filters are as cheap as 20 bucks, but i question their effectiveness. decent ones are at least 40 per, and up.

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I now have a water butt installed collecting rain water (in abundance here in the uk!) so no need for the RO system as of yet! Though I was giving it consideration, though the abundance of uk rain changed my mind!

Dr. Who said:

I am not a fan of Coco.....Not at all.
The best thing to actually learn in (it's forgiving)?

A basic potting soil _ NO MG products or any that have a timed release nutrient.

FFOF
FFHF
Black Gold
Dr. Earth's POTting soil
The go to local around here is Potter's Gold

I build my own soil's
Use basic for synthetic use, and build water only soils for my organic run's.

Your going to find needed use of a Ca/Mg product for coco. 5 ml a gallon in coco?
Does that nutrient have added Ca/Mg? Botanicare KIND does....
Be sure to pH for coco/hydro Say set to 5.8 and let it rise to about 6.2 and readjust....You want that swing.
I have never been a follower of any run-off metering......

Follow nutrient instructions and adjust to strain needs...
Keep the pH in range.

Coco will most likely need a leeching of build up now and then....

Yes 70-30 coco to perlite ....

There are those much better at coco advise then I.....I'm only sharing the little solid knowledge I learned the hard way.... I went back to soil....

Click to expand...

I have some Ca/Mg supplement, and I think I’ll follow your advice and just use the nite schedule and adjust as necessary!

I don’t have anything against using soil, I’d just heard it was more prone to pests and moulds than coco, which was my only reason.

I think I’m going to follow your advice and just stick to the schedule and adjust as neccesary.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge guys!