Advanced aeroponics - or how to get fuzzy roots and be a happy grower

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Well crap, darn, damn, dang, shoot, etc etc. One of my girls isnt!

20201214_212908.jpg


So this brings up the question of how to handle this kind of thing - culling an unwanted male - in a hydro setup where you have several plants with their roots all mixed together in the same container, or in my case a root chamber. As you can see in the pics above from last week, the roots of all three babies are already starting to intertwine. Its even worse now.

The problem is how to avoid leaving dead roots to rot in the chamber, and/or how to separate one set of roots you dont want from roots you want to keep without doing harm.

Ive run into similar situations in the past where I either wanted to harvest one plant before another was ready, or in one case where one plant got mold in the buds and needed to be cut back. In those earlier situations, the roots were even more entangled as they were more mature and much larger root masses.

What I did back then was cut back the plant I wanted to get rid of - but - not all the way. I left some stem and a few large leaves so the plant and the roots wouldn't die. In both of those cases it worked just fine, but the roots only had to stay alive for a short time - a couple of weeks or so.

This time Im going to need to keep those male roots alive for six to 8 weeks. It will be interesting to see if this works that long.

So I cut the bad boy back severely, but left as many leaves as I could. I expect it will put out some new starters, so Im going to have to keep a close eye on it in case it tries to grow some more balls.

20201214_213940.jpg
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Here is a spread sheet for calculating flow rates. I had to change the extension to PDF to get it to load. Just change the .PDF to .xlsx. I can do different formats if needed for other spreadsheet programs.
 

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
What type of compressor is used for AA?
any Air compressor would work like the contractor type smaller ones or bigger as Long as u have a compressor with a air holding tank on it.
Yes, pretty much any compressor will work, but there are a couple of things to consider.

One is noise. If you are growing in your home, you may not want a noisy contractor compressor in the back room. There are a number of "quiet" compressors available that are actually not that obnoxious. I use a small .6hp California Air tools compressor. I think its around 3 cfm, and around 50 db.

That brings up the next point - how many nozzles will you be running and what air pressures do they need and what is the cfm requirement for all of them together? If you are running several nozzles and/or they use a lot of air and/or you have a large root chamber, a small compressor may end up running too often. That can shorten its life significantly, plus the extra noise from it running so often.

You can add extra air storage tanks, which will reduce the number of times the compressor cycles, but then it will have to run longer to re-fill the tank when it does run.

As usual in this hobby, and most things in life, there are tradeoffs.
 

redi jedi

Well-Known Member
any Air compressor would work like the contractor type smaller ones or bigger as Long as u have a compressor with a air holding tank on it.
Yes, pretty much any compressor will work, but there are a couple of things to consider.

One is noise. If you are growing in your home, you may not want a noisy contractor compressor in the back room. There are a number of "quiet" compressors available that are actually not that obnoxious. I use a small .6hp California Air tools compressor. I think its around 3 cfm, and around 50 db.

That brings up the next point - how many nozzles will you be running and what air pressures do they need and what is the cfm requirement for all of them together? If you are running several nozzles and/or they use a lot of air and/or you have a large root chamber, a small compressor may end up running too often. That can shorten its life significantly, plus the extra noise from it running so often.

You can add extra air storage tanks, which will reduce the number of times the compressor cycles, but then it will have to run longer to re-fill the tank when it does run.

As usual in this hobby, and most things in life, there are tradeoffs.
Lol.....so oil in the air isnt a concern?
 

VandalBee

Member
@Larry3215 , I back after a rough past 6 months. I finally managed to put the system together 3 days ago. I started a cucumber plant in kratkey couple of weeks ago and transferred it to the system 48h ago.

Still working on the time on and off, but ended up at 0.8s on, 70s off, @9psi, 150ppm nutrients solution.

1st pic is after 24h
2nd is after 48h - im starting to see fuzzies. Might have to bump to 75s off as i see a little bit of bigger drops on the roots.
 

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
@Larry3215 , I back after a rough past 6 months. I finally managed to put the system together 3 days ago. I started a cucumber plant in kratkey couple of weeks ago and transferred it to the system 48h ago.

Still working on the time on and off, but ended up at 0.8s on, 70s off, @9psi, 150ppm nutrients solution.

1st pic is after 24h
2nd is after 48h - im starting to see fuzzies. Might have to bump to 75s off as i see a little bit of bigger drops on the roots.
Sorry to hear about your rough times. Its been one heck of a year for sure, but glad to see you back at it.

Awesome on the fuzzies!!!

I would take small steps at this point. Thats not really all that far off on the side of too many large droplets. Plus other areas dont look over misted. With your setup, you will always have to balance some areas getting too much while others dont get enough. Seems like your setup must be pretty close to ideal if you're al;ready getting fuzzies.

How are the root zone temps lights ON/OFF? That was my only real concern with your setup.

Keep us posted!!
 

go go kid

Well-Known Member
Well crap, darn, damn, dang, shoot, etc etc. One of my girls isnt!

View attachment 4768815


So this brings up the question of how to handle this kind of thing - culling an unwanted male - in a hydro setup where you have several plants with their roots all mixed together in the same container, or in my case a root chamber. As you can see in the pics above from last week, the roots of all three babies are already starting to intertwine. Its even worse now.

The problem is how to avoid leaving dead roots to rot in the chamber, and/or how to separate one set of roots you dont want from roots you want to keep without doing harm.

Ive run into similar situations in the past where I either wanted to harvest one plant before another was ready, or in one case where one plant got mold in the buds and needed to be cut back. In those earlier situations, the roots were even more entangled as they were more mature and much larger root masses.

What I did back then was cut back the plant I wanted to get rid of - but - not all the way. I left some stem and a few large leaves so the plant and the roots wouldn't die. In both of those cases it worked just fine, but the roots only had to stay alive for a short time - a couple of weeks or so.

This time Im going to need to keep those male roots alive for six to 8 weeks. It will be interesting to see if this works that long.

So I cut the bad boy back severely, but left as many leaves as I could. I expect it will put out some new starters, so Im going to have to keep a close eye on it in case it tries to grow some more balls.

View attachment 4768822
You mean BALLS BOLLOX AND TESTICALS lol
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Those temps might be ok, but keep an eye out for root rot. By the way, I found that running a sterile rez drastically cut down on fuzzy hairs. Thats why I keep my rez down below 60F now and never let root chamber temps go over about 68F

Thats an interesting looking version of an ice chest. Nicely engineered! I wonder of you can add more of those extension sections to make it taller?

Im cheap, so I would just go to HomeDepot and get a piece of 1" thick foam board and custom build my own foam box. You can use hot glue to fasten the joints or silicone caulk if you have more patience than I do. Last time I checked they ran about $20 ea for a 4'x8' sheet. You could just wrap your existing chamber with the additional foam and see how well that works.
 

VandalBee

Member
You can make those toller, they sell 4in extensions that stack up ontop of each other - you can make it as tall as you want. They are quite durable, you can step on top of it and it won't break.

Ill give your idea a shot as its way cheaper.

I want to also give these boxes a shot and make a taller box with a single/2 nozzle spraying from the bottom.
 

VandalBee

Member
Bummer, lost the fuzzies :( That plant is quite odd for a cucumber. It started super slow. It quadripled the root mass in 5 days, but that's all. The plant itself is growing super slow. That was the case when it was in the dwc. The rest of his kin are already fruiting.
Roots looks super white and healthy, but grow only down instead of fish bone style. I think I stressed it quite a bit, with all the tuning of the system and it shows signs of nutrients deficiency.
I had a faulty temp/humidity sensor that was causing the humidity to fluctuate a lot, thus cycling the humidifier/dehumidifier, making things even worse.

That is all fixed now, but im not sure if this plant will survive the torture I'm putting it through. At least i got valuable data and fixed alot of bugs.

@Larry3215 ,
What are ur current on/off timings and pressure?
 

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@Larry3215 Thank you for your effort and enlightenment you provide! This topic is a treasure for somebody who wants to get into this fuzzy root game but doesn't know how to start.
There might be some optical-based fog density sensors on the market, I'm trying to find and connect them to my system. We'll see how it goes.
 
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