Advanced Lighting Spectrums for T5 Floro and LED

You are going to get slightly better light from a single chip 30w LED. But the difference doesn't matter. The single chip will have slightly better efficiency which is more important if you are looking to save money, but compared to HID I don't think it makes a difference. I am using 4 chip emitters. So under one lens there are 4 chips each running at 700mA. They use about 8w. I can turn them up to 1Amp and they will run at 10w. Approximately. It doesn't matter what LEDs you use, just so that your spectrum is balanced the way your plants want them to be. I've been finding HUGE differences in strain specific needs/wants for spectrum. The LS I grow needs a more blue heavy spectrum while the SD I grow doesn't like that so much. I've been having great results running a MH along side 660 Red LEDs. Really boosts the grow in a major way. MH lack deep red. I took a SA of the 1000w Horitlux Blue along side 4 x 32w Kessil Red LED lamps and it almost replicates Midday Sunllight perfectly, UV and all. Will post photos of finished bud in a month under this setup.

420hydro said:

As an addict DIYer, I was browsing ebay and found these guys:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-30-Watt-Cree-XLamp-Red-Blue-High-Power-LED-Light-DC24-26V-For-Plant-Grow-/190767851149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6aa6668d


and then I found this (the 100-watter):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110985519495?var=410150220719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

and then this was found:

http://www.heatsinkusa.com/3-500-wide-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/

Now the idea is to have 2 of these units: 3 LED modules on a 18-inch x 3.5-inch heatsink each powered by a LED driver. Mount the units on the sides of my CMH hood and used for flowering.

Comments?

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Not a bad idea, but there are some problems with the products you linked. First off, that red/blue led cree light combo will do nothing for your CMH. TBH, CMH do great on their own and don't need any LED supplement. If you were to supplement some LED on a CMH, go with the Kessil Red 32w h150. Yeah they are pricey, but you will spend at least half making them yourself. I'm a week away from finishing my first complete CMH grow. The LS are loving that lamp without the need of any supplementation. I tossed the Kessil reds in there for the last couple weeks and haven't noticed a change.

The second problem with the products you mentioned are the lack of active cooling. You may need a fan to cool those LEDs. Also, the driver mentioned for a 100w is 3000mA and Cree run at a 700mA MAX I believe. Either way, you don't want to run Cree 3w at more than 700mA especially without active cooling.

I recommend sticking with the lone CMH, but there's nothing wrong with trying something new. I just don't think you will see much of a worthy difference by adding supplement LED light to an almost perfect CMH spectrum already.

OK so now after further digging... behold the Cree XM-L:
http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/discrete-directional/xlamp-xml
It is a 3w single diode emitter, when driven 3volts @ 1amp. This is it's Energy Star rating.
It's maximum rating is 3amps @ 3.1 volts!!! ..meaning with proper cooling this emitter can put out 10.5watts off of a single diode.
Hooked up to this driver:
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/inventronics-120w-driver-2100ma/
You can run 16 of these at a constant current of 2.1amps
putting out nearly 120watts (roughly 7watts per diode)
The Cree XM-L can be purchased here:
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/categories/CREE/XM%2dL/
and here:
http://www.hero-ledstore.com/cree-led-xlamp-xml-leds-c-97_201.html

So heres the question, between the 2, who outperforms who? Watt-per-watt? Penetration?:
15 of these Cree XM-L LEDs driven @2100mA (~100watts total power, ~7watts/diode)
vs
1 single 100w (Chinese DIY type) Dense Array Matrix Emitter (~100watts total, 1watt/diode)

Wouldnt it be best not to cluster them and to space them out, as I believe flora stated?
I believe that regardless of 100watts being emitted from a single emitter on the dense matrix LED, it is still limited to the penetration power of the 1watt diodes it is comprised of.
I have also taken into consideration that the 100watts is focused through a single lense with the 100w Dense Matrix LED... giving it MORE penetration power than say: ten*10watt Dense Matrix LEDs.. giving off the same 100watts.. through the same 1watt diodes (but through 10 different lenses).
I believe this single lense penetration gain to be SLIGHT at BEST and it is given this logic and reason that I believe the Cree XM-Ls would take skunk shits on any other LED Grow light.
How deep can 10watt single diode LEDs penetrate? More than T5-HO? T5-VHO?
I've also read that with extreme cooling the XM-Ls can be pushed beyond 6amps!!! up to as high as 25watts!!! off of a single diode!!!

Im not an electrician, so dont quote me on this, but I think you can wire 10 of these Cree XM-Ls in series directly to the same driver used for the 100W Dense Matrix LED (100watt, 30-36v, 0-3000mA (dimmable) Constant Current):
http://www.hero-ledstore.com/waterproof-dimmable-led-driver-for-heroled-100w-led-emitter-p-1621.html
This would give you a 100watt grow light using 10watt LEDs for around $200 that would out-perform any 100+ watt LED system on the market today. And most likely for less money too!
Just remember that increased power and current requires increased cooling precautions.

BluntM8 said:

Im not an electrician, so dont quote me on this, but I think you can wire 10 of these Cree XM-Ls in series directly to the same driver used for the 100W Dense Matrix LED

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As long as the LED can handle the same current you can run any LEDs together in series. With a constant current driver, the driver will maintain the amperage across the string therefore adjusting the voltage necessary. I'm not sure about how much more penetrating a single chip LED is going to be, but I know that either one is going to penetrate much more than a T5. T5's emit light in a 360 degree beam, LEDs emit in a focused beam usually around 100 degree.

BluntM8 said:

I've also read that with extreme cooling the XM-Ls can be pushed beyond 6amps!!! up to as high as 25watts!!! off of a single diode!!!

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That would be cool, but you would need to solder up your LEDs with 12ga wire. That's pretty thick stuff to be soldering.

and probably directly to a liquid cooled heatsink as well

I've put the LED panels I made recently to the test and threw a few plants under them to see what happens. So far I'm not that happy. I can't say the plants are reacting in a super positive manner and I think it's due to the lack of a full spectrum. I will be building one more LED panel utilizing 36 LEDs in a square. I think that it would be best to implement a the full spectrum and try to duplicate the Sun as close as possible. This will require many white LEDs which in my mind is somewhat pointless since the original idea of growing with LEDs was to use REd and BLue mainly. The panels I've produced so far have warm white, blue, red, and deep red in them. The lowest wavelength is around 450nm in the blue spectrum. I have a feeling that most plants require a "fuller" blue spectrum and can't get by with a 450-470nm range only. Not sure. The red spectrum is covered well it would seem since there is green, yellow, red, deep red in there.

The growth I'm seeing in the plants that were under the LEDs started to get really deep green and the new growth was white. Very strange. I guess it's possible I had the light to close, it was about 20" away from the canopy. I have zero experience when it comes to growing with pure LEDs. I've had great luck using LEDs with MH though and still use them that way to this day. I'm just not liking the lack of wide-range blue spectrum in white LEDs, and in blue LEDs. I haven't found a source for a "full-range" blue LED and I think it would be best to include 400-485nm if possible.

and when you think you've seen it all...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500W-506-Watt-Pure-White-High-Power-Led-Light-DIY-6500K-50000LM-/200866847967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec498dcdf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500W-506-Watt-Warm-White-High-Power-Led-Light-DIY-3500K-50000LM-/200866863807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec4991abf

where can you find a driver for these?

Fonzarelli said:

I've put the LED panels I made recently to the test and threw a few plants under them to see what happens. So far I'm not that happy. I can't say the plants are reacting in a super positive manner and I think it's due to the lack of a full spectrum. I will be building one more LED panel utilizing 36 LEDs in a square. I think that it would be best to implement a the full spectrum and try to duplicate the Sun as close as possible. This will require many white LEDs which in my mind is somewhat pointless since the original idea of growing with LEDs was to use REd and BLue mainly. The panels I've produced so far have warm white, blue, red, and deep red in them. The lowest wavelength is around 450nm in the blue spectrum. I have a feeling that most plants require a "fuller" blue spectrum and can't get by with a 450-470nm range only. Not sure. The red spectrum is covered well it would seem since there is green, yellow, red, deep red in there.

The growth I'm seeing in the plants that were under the LEDs started to get really deep green and the new growth was white. Very strange. I guess it's possible I had the light to close, it was about 20" away from the canopy. I have zero experience when it comes to growing with pure LEDs. I've had great luck using LEDs with MH though and still use them that way to this day. I'm just not liking the lack of wide-range blue spectrum in white LEDs, and in blue LEDs. I haven't found a source for a "full-range" blue LED and I think it would be best to include 400-485nm if possible.

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1. I think the point is, led lights are stupid expensive and don't give you the power you really need. Stick to the ceramic if you want true full spectrum power, ditch the leds and don't

waste your money. I've seen the grows with red and blue led lighting and they don't do any justice to a straight ceramic light. And no, white leds are NOT full spectrum so adding

them is not going to give the wavelengths necessary to do a good enough job to justify the expense. Also, there is no such thing as a full spectrum led light,

What's the point in adding white led lights to a panel when you can just grow with a ceramic metal halide and do twice as much. It's stupid to by white leds when you can get 400w of

pure growing power with ceramic for $50. How many watts of led lighting can you get for $50, about 25 watts? I don't even want to know.

2. A ceramic lamp runs quite cool for a HID, but still gives you the warmth you need to grow whereas led lights do not. Heat is important for a plants health and a ceramic puts out

just enough. Do not believe anyone who says they can grow with under at least 400w for a 4x4 area and get better results than someone using a ceramic metal halide. It just isn't

isn't true. You can easily get 2g/watt under a ceramic in a 4x4 area, I just don't get what the hype is all about with the led, lol, they should just stay in flashlights and run off of

batteries like they were designed for.

Lemon Sour said:

1. I think the point is, led lights are stupid expensive and don't give you the power you really need. Stick to the ceramic if you want true full spectrum power, ditch the leds and don't

waste your money. I've seen the grows with red and blue led lighting and they don't do any justice to a straight ceramic light. And no, white leds are NOT full spectrum so adding

them is not going to give the wavelengths necessary to do a good enough job to justify the expense. Also, there is no such thing as a full spectrum led light,

What's the point in adding white led lights to a panel when you can just grow with a ceramic metal halide and do twice as much. It's stupid to by white leds when you can get 400w of

pure growing power with ceramic for $50. How many watts of led lighting can you get for $50, about 25 watts? I don't even want to know.

2. A ceramic lamp runs quite cool for a HID, but still gives you the warmth you need to grow whereas led lights do not. Heat is important for a plants health and a ceramic puts out

just enough. Do not believe anyone who says they can grow with under at least 400w for a 4x4 area and get better results than someone using a ceramic metal halide. It just isn't

isn't true. You can easily get 2g/watt under a ceramic in a 4x4 area, I just don't get what the hype is all about with the led, lol, they should just stay in flashlights and run off of

batteries like they were designed for.

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wow your ignorance is amazing. CMH is a good bulb, but if you want to know the truth you dont know shit about lighting, cause if you did you would have respect for all the forms in which it is generated. an LED is amazing technology, limited but energy efficient as fuck, from an engineering point of view.

So go ahead and waste your money. That sounds even more ignorant actually. What a joke.

Lemon Sour said:

So go ahead and waste your money. That sounds even more ignorant actually. What a joke.

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yeah okay fuck you. haha



anyways moving on......

fonz have you seen these yet?
http://www.aquastyleonline.com/categories/DIY-LED-Lighting/LED-Controller-Kit/

been thinking about going through them for a diy led for a while but that controller setup is pretty sweet, would be awesome for a smaller grow.

Use this type of driver: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/LXC200-0700SW/633-1167-ND/2677185

I run 10w in series along with 40w leds and they run fine in the same string at 700mA. They run fine at 1A but a little hotter. Making LED lights is super easy to do. I wouldn't use the link you posted because they are meant to be used inside of a chassis. The one I posted you can use external and they are somewhat water resistant for damp.

It's been awhile since I been back to the forums. I was traveling the UK and Scotland for the last month. So amazing up there! Especially from a "high" perspective. No really, if you can get yourself up high and overlook the ocean and castle, the view in Edenborough is amazing.

Why hasn't this thread been continuing? Not interesting enough for everyone? LOL

I've just started another LED project. I will be using the 200w driver from Excel technology.(not sure on the spelling) These drivers rock! 90% eff.

They have 700mA and 1.02A versions for the driver. I have both!

Any new spectrum realization anyone? Any new grows? Any new etc.?

check out my grow fonz i got some interesting lighting situations and results to pique your curiosity.

petflora is also flowering some of my strains under all white led e27 light bulbs.

and then there is a cat, username chronikool he is growing with 50w flood very successfully.

Hey Mr Fonz, (or any other specta wizards)
Could you check out this spectra flouro an tell me were I need adjusting? (More 660 ect)
You ara Ninja, and Id Appreciate your advice.....

Its a Edfl induction flouro 400w grow lamp i purchased.





Like a t5 on roids.
It puts out a very pink/purple light.

Isn't induction the same as plasma? That spectral analysis you posted is for a T5 that would be WHITE not PURPLE. I think you got a bunk spectral graph. Your plant is looking really nice, but could look better for 400w. Add a 250w HPS or MH to get some bigger/thicker tighter nugs. That light you got is like a flourescent on steroids, but it's still going to act like a flourescent.

It would be worth the try to get some Kessil h150 reds to add to your Induction lamp. You would only need 2 of them to match up with the 400w. They are a little pricey but I think the price has come down quite a bit over the years. It would add the deep red your Induction isn't. Most likely the red in your lamp is of the 610-630nm wavelength which does work, but for a bigger and badder boost you want the deeper wavelengths. Kessil h150 red would be a good start and would keep me interested. Would it be possible to cut some 2.5" holes on each side of your fixture to add them in or something? Otherwise just hand them in from the side. You can get goosenecks for the Kessils. I'm not a Kessil fan, but they have the only "spot light" deep red light source in a 32w package.

Now since the induction that you got isn't going to penetrate as much, those lower wattage deep red par38 led lamps that are like 12w or 20w around there add like 4 of those around your induction fixture and you will get some nice results. Keep me posted!

induction is the same as flouro not plasma, although they are all technically plasma lights except for incandescent.

The light is white triphosphor , but with lots of pink an purple hue to it.
(due to less green 555 ?)
That plant 28 days flowering and is about 1 ft tall, so she won't get to sexy.

Im a tight ass and Instead of led,
I have been considering using small halogen( or xenon )for extra red & IR.
they are smaller than hid and have a great red.
View attachment 2578074

Has anyone ever tried this?