Lmao at the whole post. I think it's hilarious that you said that there are flaws in anything I said...I'l tell you why...I'll start from the top. My bottle OMRI nutrients have 2 year labels on them...not 2 months lol.witchdoctor yes always friendly and looking to expand my knowledege base at all times. but there are flaws in many of the things you are saying. i have grown organically with homemade teas bactierial/fungal dominated read thru teaming with microbes many times, made my own supersoil before subcool came out with his. I experiment all over the place and i agree that using all synthetic leaves a taste/smell not equal to my organic grows but there is blend im working on to compare differences and at this point im not seeing a diffference.. To many peoples here dismay many of the cannabis cup winning entries have been grown with advanced dont have to belive it but i know this for fact before talking to the rep. there have been many organiclly grown things to win cup (soma, and i followed his book to the T on several grows before).
About organic certification. I have read your little link many times before been there done that like i said information feeds my life. In saying that there is a very large list of chemicals that could be sprayed and used on in and around the crops being sold as OMRI so our weed is probably the cleanest thing going in to our bodies lol...In addition I had the eternal question about all these products that say organic but no OMRI on the bottle so after investigation with local farms that produce organic crops and are certified i have found that many of these products use preservative to keep them from going bad and this will keep them from getting certified. THis is the case with many ferts. but anything purely organic is going to rot with heat or short time as you may know with teas or anything in your fridge shit is cold and still molding up! so if you go buy organic certified nutes there will be a date on them for usully within the year more likely only several months but that depends on where you are located and what your are buying..it makes more biz sense to sacrafice a label of organic ness to add something that will keep your product good for longer without comprimising the user or product.
the rep actually told me canna is the safest to use on something you ingest and i have long believed this but they are hard to find at all hydro store leaving alot of people buying online which can be awfully inconvenient for numerous security reason. so yes there is a 10 dollar difference in price but you use 7.5ml / gal for ALL AN products if you buy new stock off the shelf and canna you use 19ml / gal thats over twice as much for a third the price
^^thrive alive although it is organic... you use the same exact amount as AN 2ml per liter but its cheaper lol! and carboload feeds your microbes and adds strength to the cell walls = less staking and harder for bugs to bite in to
how do you know that bioroot is 'more' organic? they are completely different products not to mention. better to compare bioroot to b52 or organic b. bio root you will use all the time where as voodoo piranha and tarantula use only every two weeks and those you could compare to great white but better cause they offer more diversity which is very very important. diamond black has only humic, no fulvic which is illegal to sell for some reason so no one who is using it will label but i seriously dont think anyone else has it in their program am i wrong?
^^ monsanto? thats stretching it a bit but i see what you saying they have their similarities. we must all realize that anything cannabis related is targeted by the people who dont want to see it legal they take all routes to make this happen ie chong, other entertainers, hydroshops, taking out the biggest nutrient line is a big deal for someone in politics of oregon im sure i could find some if i did research. AN...they do lie i realize this. but. after understanding the entire situation i see why they do it. beacuse it works. really that simple. all companies do this to some degree im sure not everything is on the label so not everything is in the open for any manufacturer of nutrients unless certified organic then they just write down the limited number of chemicals that they are allowed to use lol with the organic methods that they use. couple of notes about AN products.. overdrive has a hormone that keeps the plant flowering instead of finishing up to make it yeild more.. is it controversial? yes does it work? yes. does it affect quality? havent tested personally but have tasted whole AN line on a crop (using connoisseur base) and was very nice only lacking smell (it was strong smelling but differernt not as fruity or depth of smell is lost) in my opinion but still pulling 60 eigth in california to adults who normally get 40-50 dollar eights so idk lol. bud factor x is supposed to raise smell and thc% it has a stress hormone already present in the plant that gets released when plant is under stress (cant remember the name but dont make look it up i will!!) the plants response to stress is resin to protect itself havent tested to see but i will know in next couple crops whats up. ever heard of people smacking their plants or doing wierd things to stress their plants for more frosty buds?? well they put it in a bottle so you dont have to smack your girls around. bud candy idk cant remember that one but as for the hormones they arent legal or something also so they are not on the bottle but if you ask certain people in person they will let you know whats up. what im getting from my reasearch is that if you use an organic base and touch on some of these other products you dont comprimise your quality and get better yeild. who here is getting 17+ ozs from their 400watts? i could do that with several medium yeilding strains ie white widow, bullrider, probbably any thing but small yeilders like ogs and we cant compare quality in person unfortunately cause that would solve the debate on the spot. but pictures will have to do...
looks like you need to learn how to research... before spouting off about others peoples knowledge. we need facts
not here to offend only looking for information
I take no offense. I appreciate that you don't either. No worries, this was a great conversation, if the OP hasn't abandoned, I'm sure they've been following with appreciation for information from both of us.take a look at my join date.. and i had several names before this one too been at this for a while and dont usully post cause things tend to go offf topic like this and i have a busy real life outside of the internet inside the gardens of california
But yea, there are organic based products that don't destroy the soil life.
I wouldn't spend the money on Bud Factor X unless you think it'll help with yields, cause it didn't help with taste or potency. I never had anything tested until after I stopped using it, but I'm obviously a purist lol. Plus I worked as a chef for years...we used to do spice bets in the back where we'd smell spices blindfolded and have to guess them...I always won lol.
let us know your findings!!yeah we shall see im not to that point yet but interesting ways to get more yeild out of the plant with overdrive... yeah idk about x factor gonna wait on that one my friend is running whole line and im gonna compare test scores
. But yes, I would also like to stop seeing this thread pop up.
And what does that tell you?
I'll address this below with the rest of your argument on the point.
Then you'd know that as soon as you alter a production technique you risk altering the certification requirements. And you'd be able to correctly answer the argument you make below (as I do below). Which means either you don't know how the certifications work as well as you think you do, or you deliberately choose to ignore the obvious answer for some reason.I know how certs work and I ALSO know how crop contamination works.
This is faulty reasoning. If you look at Tarantula you can see it's basically a bacterial supplement. I don't know a hell of a lot about how you go about making a bacterial supplement, but I'm quite certain it differs significantly from making a liquid organic nutrient. Because they're COMPLETELY different products. No doubt the criteria to OMRI certify Tarantula are significantly easier to meet than they are for actual fertilizers. Hell for all either of us know there is some integral step in the process AN uses that OMRI refuses to certify simply because it doesn't have a 10 year study to prove it doesn't violate organic standards or some crap. It's not a simple matter to get something like a nutrient certified by OMRI if you do anything more than shovel manure into a bag.
This just reinforces the point that it's undoubtedly far more complicated or even completely impossible to qualify for OMRI for the nutrients.Hell, even General Hydroponics pulls that "we don't believe in cerifications" shit, and they've got certs now on their coco tek and AzaMax. But not their organic line of nutrients...oh no, not that. Because when it comes to organic bottled nutrients, companies apparently can't afford the cert, or don't believe in it. Lol.
But that's ok, apparently a lot of people believe it.
The problem with your points, and again I mean no offense, is that you're not reinforcing anything except a bunch of tired ass excuses from nutrient companies. I'll answer your first question with a picture if you don't mind...
It's not ok for them to use the same machines to process organic and non organic lines lol. That's absolutely not ok and you're right, it would be a great reason for them to not get a cert. My point again, if they could get them they would. Do you realize how many conversations like this there are on the internet from these forums now? I'm pretty sure if a cut throat company like AN could get certs on their organic line they would, and deep down you know it as well.
oh you mean 17oz wet ... nice plants for 400Wokay so i need to check the store to make sure the labels online are uptodate cause im pretty sure i checked every bottle in there but maybe i missed organic b so my bad on that for sure thrive alive away for you used it before but idk undecided on results.. this is what i said about bud candy:
bud candy idk cant remember that one
overdrive i clearly said i havent personally tested but have TASTED the results is all buddy of mine ran the whole line but im going to do side by side so i can personally see the effects.
good to hear your results with bud factor x but sorry it didnt work out for ya.. did you get your stuff tested? most my strains have thats how i will know if its working for me.
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From what I'm getting out of your research, I'd suggest that you start doing your research in the organics forum instead lol. Using an organic base and then using synthetic products ABSOLUTELY affects your quality and can affect yield as well unless you continue to use synthetics, it destroys the soil life. I thought you read Teaming with Microbes many times?
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^^i investigated the affects of what i use against the soil life with reps, reading and my personal results and im good my roots are white fuzzy and thick using my methods and i stay away from the things that kill soil life. pictures? this isnt the place for it but i got a few...
these are all from under 400 watt got two going perpetual playhouse for testing if only we could compare results from the same cut