Advanced PH perfect recipe???
- Thread starter Chiefdog
- Start date
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Oh here we go...you just started a shit storm...lol
The AN haters are going to tear you up.
I use AN nutes... the "hobbiest line" which is all you need.
For veg:
Grow A +B
B52
Voodoo
For flower:
Bloom A +B
B52
Big Bud
Overdrive (same as Big Bud so i dont tend to use it much anymore.
The AN haters are going to tear you up.
I use AN nutes... the "hobbiest line" which is all you need.
For veg:
Grow A +B
B52
Voodoo
For flower:
Bloom A +B
B52
Big Bud
Overdrive (same as Big Bud so i dont tend to use it much anymore.
humboldthayze420
Member
I use AN nutes, have always had a great experience and amazing bud quality/yield.
Veg:
Grow A + B
B52
Voodoo Juice (for first 2 weeks)
Calmag
Flower:
Bloom A + B
B52
Voodoo (for first 2 weeks)
Bud Ignitor (for first 2 weeks)
Bud Candy
Rhino Skin (this helps a lot with indoor as it makes the stalks strong which can in turn hold more weight)
Big Bud
Overdrive
Flawless Finish
Calmag
It can get expensive as far as nutes go with any line depending on how many supplements you use, but with this setup I have found that I yield a pound on my 600w hps 4x4 everytime. I do run 16 2g pots so it packed inside the tent, but totally worth it.
Veg:
Grow A + B
B52
Voodoo Juice (for first 2 weeks)
Calmag
Flower:
Bloom A + B
B52
Voodoo (for first 2 weeks)
Bud Ignitor (for first 2 weeks)
Bud Candy
Rhino Skin (this helps a lot with indoor as it makes the stalks strong which can in turn hold more weight)
Big Bud
Overdrive
Flawless Finish
Calmag
It can get expensive as far as nutes go with any line depending on how many supplements you use, but with this setup I have found that I yield a pound on my 600w hps 4x4 everytime. I do run 16 2g pots so it packed inside the tent, but totally worth it.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
OD is nothing at all like Big Bud. Not even close. I've used BB since Dr. Hornsby invented it and AN stole it off him. Sorry Doc but it's damn good stuff. I add a half dose of BB a week before flipping to flower to "prime the pump" and get flowers going strong right off the bat.
OD does nothing as far as I can tell to get more of anything so won't be using it again. Same with the Bud Ignitor. Got me a free 500ml bottle of Bud Factor X to try out and see if it's worth paying for.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
High ChiefDog
AN user for almost 17 years now and the haters can go piss up a rope.
Doing DWC that long as well and have tried the Sensi for veg and Connoisseur for flowering but have gone back to the 3-part for better control of who gets what.
All I use besides the base nutes are Big Bud, Rhino Skin and as mentioned above I have a fresh 500ml bottle of Bud Factor X I'm going to test out to see if it's worth the money. I just use some cheaper CalMag and a bit of Epsom salts once in a while.
I know a couple growers on other forums that do RDWC and they swear by the Bud Factor so I'll see on my own.
I start my clones at around 300ppm using all 3 base nutes but once they are going drop most of the Bloom and some of the Micro so I'm using the 3-part, G-M-B in a 3:2:1 ratio. I just add more nutes as they eat the old ones to raise or maintain the ppm. A week before flipping I use all 3 parts equally and add a half dose of Big Bud so the plants are loaded up with what they need to set flower sites as they go into the stretch.
Right after the stretch I may do a complete nute change, first one, then reload with just the Micro, Bloom and some BB at a lower ppm than just before the stretch. Say 750ppm then just bits of nutes for the next couple weeks if they are eating the ppm down much. About a week before I figure they are almost ready to start cropping I'll take half the water out of the tub(s) and top up with just RO water to lower the ppm to less than 500 more like 300. I don't flush them right out as I usually take the big colas and allow the lower ones to fatten up and ripen in the light then crop the bottom 2/3 of the plant. They need a bit of food to ripen up well.
I only use RO water so I don't have to worry about minerals and other crap in tap water messing with my plants and that allows me to go the whole grow without changing nutes if I want tho mainly do one change after the stretch. Works good and you're not flushing perfectly good nutes in the early stages of growth every freakin week like they want you to.
Don't follow the feeding charts at AN or I guarantee you'll fry your plants and if you have low RH keep the nutes lower too to prevent burn. Like up to 50% lower as they can suck up twice as much water when your RH is 20-30% like mine is in the grow room all winter. 0% outside when it's -25C.
Crispy leaves in later flowering has plagued me for years and I thought it was too much N after the stretch but certain now it's Vapour Pressure Deficit from my low RH. I'll be finding out for sure this winter by running lower ppm in a tub or two while higher in a couple others to compare growth rates and whether the leaves start to crisp up around week 5 of flowering.
I never have to test pH and don't even bother. RO water has no real pH of it's own so never test that and don't mess with the nutes or you'll mess up the pH Perfect aspect of them.
Good luck!
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
Well....
I have a bottle of both BB and OD. They both look the same, smell the same and, incidentally, taste the same... so i dunno...
The BB is great though...
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I get the powdered BB. Keeps for ages compared to the liquid and the big jar I got, 500g I scored for $80 and it would make about 4gals of the liquid. Wish all their nutes came like that. Would save a ton getting them shipped but I won't need any for a couple years at least.
They are totally different products to be used at totally different stages of flowering. BB is 0-15-35 with 10% Sulfur, 20 amino acids, ascorbic acid, (Vit. C), and citric acid made to kick flowering into high gear and force more bud sites and you quit using it just after half way through flowering.
OD must be made out of bog water and did absolutely nothing to plants I grew side-by-side without it. It's 1-5-4 and 1% Mg and is supposed to boost resin production the last 2 weeks before flushing. This is one of the useless yet expensive supplements that the AN haters bitch about and I'm on board with that. Many of their supplements are like that. Just more of what's in the other ones and everybody I know that has gone with the whole line ends up screwing up their grows big time. The 3-part base nutes are the same price as the crappier GH nutes and have built in supplements like Wet Betty, Fulvic and Humic acids and worry-free pH Perfect technology that I know from 5 years of using it works pH Perfect in hydro and soil/soilless growing. They also didn't hide behind flowers and veggies to sell their products but proudly announced from Day 1 that they made nutes for pot and have been shut out by all the mainstream nute makers and advertisers since. Just for that they deserve my money over the rest plus they are Canadian first and now make them in the states too.
Once I get my DWC tubs up and running I'll be testing out that Bud Factor X using identical clones from the same mother in two tubs. Everything will be identical except one tub will get the Bud Factor and one won't. It's added in early flowering along with the BB. I'll be doing a grow journal about it too so keep your eyes open for that.
Something I've been doing is to grind up a couple of my zinc citrate tablets and add to the nutes as I believe there isn't enough Zn in soils or nutrients. I also toss in a couple of iron tabs, 2 caps of complex B and a couple of 1000mg ascorbic acid tablets. Not sure if it makes much difference but I take them to keep me healthier and in the case of zinc it's an important catalyst for many of the complex chemical reactions that go on in both plants and animals.
They are totally different products to be used at totally different stages of flowering. BB is 0-15-35 with 10% Sulfur, 20 amino acids, ascorbic acid, (Vit. C), and citric acid made to kick flowering into high gear and force more bud sites and you quit using it just after half way through flowering.
OD must be made out of bog water and did absolutely nothing to plants I grew side-by-side without it. It's 1-5-4 and 1% Mg and is supposed to boost resin production the last 2 weeks before flushing. This is one of the useless yet expensive supplements that the AN haters bitch about and I'm on board with that. Many of their supplements are like that. Just more of what's in the other ones and everybody I know that has gone with the whole line ends up screwing up their grows big time. The 3-part base nutes are the same price as the crappier GH nutes and have built in supplements like Wet Betty, Fulvic and Humic acids and worry-free pH Perfect technology that I know from 5 years of using it works pH Perfect in hydro and soil/soilless growing. They also didn't hide behind flowers and veggies to sell their products but proudly announced from Day 1 that they made nutes for pot and have been shut out by all the mainstream nute makers and advertisers since. Just for that they deserve my money over the rest plus they are Canadian first and now make them in the states too.
Once I get my DWC tubs up and running I'll be testing out that Bud Factor X using identical clones from the same mother in two tubs. Everything will be identical except one tub will get the Bud Factor and one won't. It's added in early flowering along with the BB. I'll be doing a grow journal about it too so keep your eyes open for that.
Something I've been doing is to grind up a couple of my zinc citrate tablets and add to the nutes as I believe there isn't enough Zn in soils or nutrients. I also toss in a couple of iron tabs, 2 caps of complex B and a couple of 1000mg ascorbic acid tablets. Not sure if it makes much difference but I take them to keep me healthier and in the case of zinc it's an important catalyst for many of the complex chemical reactions that go on in both plants and animals.
Gquebed
Well-Known Member
I don't deny the criticism that AN put so useless product just for the sake of making extra money. But I don't see how that's any different from just about every other Corporation. I just don't buy the useless ones. The AN hobbyist mix is all a person really needs aside from a little calmag from time to time....I get the powdered BB. Keeps for ages compared to the liquid and the big jar I got, 500g I scored for $80 and it would make about 4gals of the liquid. Wish all their nutes came like that. Would save a ton getting them shipped but I won't need any for a couple years at least.
They are totally different products to be used at totally different stages of flowering. BB is 0-15-35 with 10% Sulfur, 20 amino acids, ascorbic acid, (Vit. C), and citric acid made to kick flowering into high gear and force more bud sites and you quit using it just after half way through flowering.
OD must be made out of bog water and did absolutely nothing to plants I grew side-by-side without it. It's 1-5-4 and 1% Mg and is supposed to boost resin production the last 2 weeks before flushing. This is one of the useless yet expensive supplements that the AN haters bitch about and I'm on board with that. Many of their supplements are like that. Just more of what's in the other ones and everybody I know that has gone with the whole line ends up screwing up their grows big time. The 3-part base nutes are the same price as the crappier GH nutes and have built in supplements like Wet Betty, Fulvic and Humic acids and worry-free pH Perfect technology that I know from 5 years of using it works pH Perfect in hydro and soil/soilless growing. They also didn't hide behind flowers and veggies to sell their products but proudly announced from Day 1 that they made nutes for pot and have been shut out by all the mainstream nute makers and advertisers since. Just for that they deserve my money over the rest plus they are Canadian first and now make them in the states too.
Once I get my DWC tubs up and running I'll be testing out that Bud Factor X using identical clones from the same mother in two tubs. Everything will be identical except one tub will get the Bud Factor and one won't. It's added in early flowering along with the BB. I'll be doing a grow journal about it too so keep your eyes open for that.
Something I've been doing is to grind up a couple of my zinc citrate tablets and add to the nutes as I believe there isn't enough Zn in soils or nutrients. I also toss in a couple of iron tabs, 2 caps of complex B and a couple of 1000mg ascorbic acid tablets. Not sure if it makes much difference but I take them to keep me healthier and in the case of zinc it's an important catalyst for many of the complex chemical reactions that go on in both plants and animals.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I don't see a need for those in my case. DWC or soilless with hydro nutes don't really need those and that's the way I roll.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
How are you planning to grow?
Bud Candy is fancy molasses meant to feed the fungus and beneficial bacteria in soil grows but can cause problems in many hydro systems. B-52 should be OK tho I've never used it. Big Bud is great stuff and I know from years of using it and the few times I didn't have it that it makes a big difference in yields.
Are you using the Sensi grow in veg as well? When I finally ran out of my original gallon jugs of the old AN 3-part I bought quart bottles of Sensi Grow for veg and the Connoisseur Bloom for flowering. It didn't seem to work any better than the 3-part so last year I bought gallon jugs of the 3-part again but now it's pH Perfect too where the older stuff wasn't as I got that in 2001.
Rhino Skin is something I always use but I start using it in very early veg so the stems are a lot stronger and the plant has a bit more protection against molds and bug attack. The bottle says to start in early flowering but by then the stems are already grown so I like to start earlier. If you get some get the smallest bottle as the stuff seems to thicken up and go green after a year or so. I still use it as it's totally non-organic and mixes up fine and I assume it still does what it's supposed to do. It does raise the pH over 8 but after the pH Perfect nutes are added drops back down around 6.5 and works OK in hydro or soilless for me.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I've run about 50 tubs doing DWC so far and am setting up to go with that steady after wasting a couple years playing in the dirt. I've never used beneficial bacteria stuff and prefer a close to sterile grow with cooling to keep the nute temps around 65F.
Keesje
Well-Known Member
I know it is an older post, but I give it a try anyway.
Just start reading about AN pH Perfect.
Have to admit that I'm always skeptical about 'new/better/amazing' slogans of brands.
But the not needing adjusting of pH is triggering me.
I saw that AN pH Perfect looks very expensive (but when it works easier or better, it makes up for that)
Now you tell in this post that you only use 50% of what AN advices.
What EC do you try to get or maintain? (or ppm, but then: at what conversion standard?)
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
The 3-part nutes aren't any more money than other 3-part ones and have a few other things in them that are geared to pot growth. A lot of the other supplements are over-priced and in my eyes not needed so I don't get them. Just the Rhino and Big Bud.
The most I ever have run in DWC is around 1000ppm, (Hanna) / 2.0 EC but usually lower than that when the RH is low like always.
With soilless I'll use 2ml/L when they are growing fast and may go to 3ml/L for a good feed when I flip or if they are heavy feeders. Mostly alternate feed, water, feed . . .
Hope that helps.
Keesje
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply on this older post.
I did some reading about that whole pH Perfect line of products.
Seems that a lot of people are thankful it exists, while others say that is overpriced BS.
Will have to do more reading.
I never worked with 3-part nutes. Only with brands that use A&B.
AN has this product called Connoiseur pH Perfect. It is A&B as well, if I understand correctly.
Do you think that Connoiseur line is ass good as their3-part line?
Would Connoiseur need any other supplements?
I did some reading about that whole pH Perfect line of products.
Seems that a lot of people are thankful it exists, while others say that is overpriced BS.
Will have to do more reading.
I never worked with 3-part nutes. Only with brands that use A&B.
AN has this product called Connoiseur pH Perfect. It is A&B as well, if I understand correctly.
Do you think that Connoiseur line is ass good as their3-part line?
Would Connoiseur need any other supplements?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I used the older AN 3-part for years, (gallon jugs of each), and the pH perfect came out while I still had lots so when I finally ran out of the older stuff I bought Sensi Grow A&B and Connoisseur Bloom A&B. Seemed to work pretty good but I was having problems with leaves burning badly starting around the 5th week of flowering and getting worse no matter what I did.
Finally figured out it was because of my chronically low humidity and now run lower ppm levels to prevent that. The plants drink a lot more water with low RH and pull up too many nutrients which get stored in the leaves causing toxic salts buildup. Once it gets bad enough the leaves start to dehydrate from all the salts and go yellow/brown and get all thick and crispy dry. Normal yellowing later in flower causes the leaves to get all limp and soft.
Almost 3 years ago I bought gallon jugs of the 3-part again for $40 each, $44 for the Micro, $80 for a 500g can of Big Bud powder and another $40 for a liter of Rhino Skin. A liter of any old CalMag will do but I make sure it has iron. That's about 5 years worth of nutes for the amount I grow. I use some epsom salts and a vitamin/supplement blend I make up from what I use myself. Zinc, iron, selenium etc.
With the 3-part I find I have more options for feeding. During veg growth I'll use a ratio of 1-1-1 of the G-M-B to start them off then switch to 3-2-1 for the rest of veg then back to 1-1-1 with a half dose of Big Bud a week before flipping to flower. Then I will give them the other half of the BB and a little more of the 3-part as the plants feed heaviest during the stretch period of flowering. After the stretch I switch to feeding Lucas Formula style. No Grow and half as much Micro as Bloom. This reduces the amount of N they get as too much N in later flowering inhibits flowering and can get toxic. Too much P after the stretch isn't good either but they want lots of K and the BB covers that being 0-15-35. I don't feed hardly anything after the end of week 5 unless they seem to need something. Just a bit of CalMag/Epsom and I like seeing older fan leaves start going yellow by week 6. If it's happening too fast I'll feed lightly once or twice but nothing but RO water the last week or two.
I feed them basically the same whether DWC or in soilless ProMix HP tho I use less CalMag in the HP as it has dolomitic lime as a pH buffer that supplies some Ca and Mg. With either I use RO water and the DWC doesn't supply anything I don't add to the water so it gets more CalMag tho only about half as much as what the bottle says as both are in the Micro part of the nutes.
I've tried all sorts of nutes and feeding methods the last 18 years and like the results I'm getting now so other than minor tweaks will keep doing it like that.
Finally figured out it was because of my chronically low humidity and now run lower ppm levels to prevent that. The plants drink a lot more water with low RH and pull up too many nutrients which get stored in the leaves causing toxic salts buildup. Once it gets bad enough the leaves start to dehydrate from all the salts and go yellow/brown and get all thick and crispy dry. Normal yellowing later in flower causes the leaves to get all limp and soft.
Almost 3 years ago I bought gallon jugs of the 3-part again for $40 each, $44 for the Micro, $80 for a 500g can of Big Bud powder and another $40 for a liter of Rhino Skin. A liter of any old CalMag will do but I make sure it has iron. That's about 5 years worth of nutes for the amount I grow. I use some epsom salts and a vitamin/supplement blend I make up from what I use myself. Zinc, iron, selenium etc.
With the 3-part I find I have more options for feeding. During veg growth I'll use a ratio of 1-1-1 of the G-M-B to start them off then switch to 3-2-1 for the rest of veg then back to 1-1-1 with a half dose of Big Bud a week before flipping to flower. Then I will give them the other half of the BB and a little more of the 3-part as the plants feed heaviest during the stretch period of flowering. After the stretch I switch to feeding Lucas Formula style. No Grow and half as much Micro as Bloom. This reduces the amount of N they get as too much N in later flowering inhibits flowering and can get toxic. Too much P after the stretch isn't good either but they want lots of K and the BB covers that being 0-15-35. I don't feed hardly anything after the end of week 5 unless they seem to need something. Just a bit of CalMag/Epsom and I like seeing older fan leaves start going yellow by week 6. If it's happening too fast I'll feed lightly once or twice but nothing but RO water the last week or two.
I feed them basically the same whether DWC or in soilless ProMix HP tho I use less CalMag in the HP as it has dolomitic lime as a pH buffer that supplies some Ca and Mg. With either I use RO water and the DWC doesn't supply anything I don't add to the water so it gets more CalMag tho only about half as much as what the bottle says as both are in the Micro part of the nutes.
I've tried all sorts of nutes and feeding methods the last 18 years and like the results I'm getting now so other than minor tweaks will keep doing it like that.