Advantage V. disadvantage CFL's

eudroken, about the t8's you are on the right track.

if you had three 20 watt bulbs

one t12, one t8 one t5

all producing the SAME lumen output and all the same length.

The t5 would be about THREE times more intense at its surface.( 5/8" vs 1.5" diameter)

Most cfls are t4 or t5 size just wrapped in a spiral, they are pretty intense at their surface relative to old t12 flouro tubes. thats why they are good for growing but only very very close!

Once the distance increases only then does the lumen output from the bulb come into play. across a room for example a 1500 lumen t12 t8 or t5 produces the same light in the room.

eudroken said:

Looks delicious to me... But I'm still learning.

The only thing I'd do differently is try to focus more of that CFL light back towards to buds. But they look good so maybe they dont need it.

Are the buds ever light or loose?

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no...

same plant @ 4.5 weeks

alka said:

no...

same plant @ 4.5 weeks

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that shit looks nice

you grow with only CFL's?

yup only cfl's, 6500k for vegging, 2700k for flowering, i would use a hps if i were given one. I spent 9x1.20 on the sockets and two packs of 10 lights for $30. So the less than 50 dollar price tag was the reason i started with cfl's and i like em so much i won't bother with hid bulbs now.

Howdy folks, I'm new to this forum and would like to pass along some info on CFL'S.. planetnatural.com has the best price on bulbs at 42.00 for 125W CFL'S, and plantlighting.com has the best price on fixtures with a little do-it-yourself wiring. I'm running 6 36inx 20in 4 bulb fixtures on a rotating basis over a modified sea of green and an producing on average170g to 225g per 36x18 containers.


"between the ditches..below the radar"

I would love to see your setup oldphart. just remember at less than an inch away the 125 watt cfl is just as bright as a 15 watt cfl. I cringe when i see pics of envirolights more than 6 inches away from the plant. Garden Knowms thread on cfl proximity to foilage says everything. the problem with env lights is that even if the bulb is TOUCHING the plant there are some tubes of the bulb that are quite a distance away whereas as small cfl can get the whole bulb within a few inches from the leaves.

Sounds like your system works tho, if it ain't broke...

did i read right that you are using 6, four bulb fixtures.......

thats 24 bulbs? 125 watt each? 3000watts? Holy crap! How many plants do you flower at once?

dont forget oldfart that lower wattage allows you to get closer to the plante there is less btu out put also the 42 watt self ballest bulbs made by GE give the most lumens per watt..

let me give this a try. I'll either prove a theory or give someone a chance to argue my point.

1. 145000 lumens from a 1000 watt hps lamp
2. bring the lamp 2 feet away from the tops of the plants for heat reasons and to spread out the light.
3. light going to the outer plants has to travel further, so lets be easy on it and say 3 feet total
4. lumens decrease by 50% every 6 inches
5. if my calculation is right, 2265.625 lumen strength at 3 feet from a 1000 watt hps bulb. 9062.5 lumens at 2 feet

1. 2700 lumens from a 150 watt cfl
2. a good coverage of lights about 2 inches from the tops of the plants
3. a max distance of 6 inches at an angle
4. lumens decrease by 50% every 6 inches
5. 1350 lumen strength at 6 inches. somewhere around 2000 lumens at 2 inches

conclusion, lumen strength at plant level from a hps is very strong and great for plants if no more then 2 vertical feet from plant tops. lumen strength at plant level for an array of cfl is a usable alternative if kept within 2 inches of the plant tops. hps is perfect for pro's, cfl is perfect for people starting out or for people who need the flexibility of moving/adding/removing extra lights.

Classic thread dudes, I just been pi**ing myself over it. Taken 2 hours to read and I havent learnt a thing but it has given me a lot of laughs...you Kak Smackers!!

ceestyle said:

Lumens aren't really relevant anyway - it's lux the plant cares about.

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that's what I was thinking. I think what I was calculating is lux decreasing by distance. I think it's the lux that the plants care about, not the lumens. I think that could be one of many big misconceptions in the community.

alka said:

I only have a cheapo light meter but mine tells me that my 15 watt right next to the bulb is the same brightness as my 42 watt. The 42 watt bulb is around three times the size of my 15 watt. Apart from surface area there is no difference in intensity from one coil to the next. I have a feeling growing under 15 watt or even 8 watt lights is only slightly less effective with cfls as under larger wattage lights ( which all that means is a larger surface area emitting the light).

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I think this would make complete sense and actually work IF lumens is what mattered to plants. I think it's the lux that matters. like someone said earlier in the thread, you can have a 200,000 lumen lamp at 10 feet away from the plant tops. that bulb is still 200,000 lumens, that doesn't change. the plants still see 200,000 lumens, but, they aren't getting anywhere near the same amount of light with the lamp at that distance. this would mean the plants need more lux and lumens don't matter the slightest bit.

lorenzo08 said:

that's what I was thinking. I think what I was calculating is lux decreasing by distance. I think it's the lux that the plants care about, not the lumens. I think that could be one of many big misconceptions in the community.

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lorenzo08 said:

I think this would make complete sense and actually work IF lumens is what mattered to plants. I think it's the lux that matters. like someone said earlier in the thread, you can have a 200,000 lumen lamp at 10 feet away from the plant tops. that bulb is still 200,000 lumens, that doesn't change. the plants still see 200,000 lumens, but, they aren't getting anywhere near the same amount of light with the lamp at that distance. this would mean the plants need more lux and lumens don't matter the slightest bit.

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You just brought the intelligence up in this thread by at least 50%.

Think about it like a sprinkler - it's actually a really good analogy. Lumens are how much water the sprinkler is putting out, accounting for all directions. Lux are how much water is hitting each leaf, which obviously depends on distance.

ceestyle said:

You just brought the intelligence up in this thread by at least 50%.

Think about it like a sprinkler - it's actually a really good analogy. Lumens are how much water the sprinkler is putting out, accounting for all directions. Lux are how much water is hitting each leaf, which obviously depends on distance.

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haha, thank you. that is a really good analogy too

this has turned out to be a great thread i have learned alot and i have been growing for years just resent with CFL's but with the bubble bucket method i get great results i have been thinking about lux and lumens for 4 days now i could not get it out of my head it was driving my hunting partner nuts we hunting for black bear this weekend and he was ready to snap by the end of the 4 days i guess there is no real way to prove that lumens add up i think that CFL's provide a ton of lux while dispersing heat very well i like using CFL's but if i was growing for production then i would use HID system airoponics kicks ass unlike microsoft windows which i consider to be poop...

lastfrontier said:

this has turned out to be a great thread i have learned alot and i have been growing for years just resent with CFL's but with the bubble bucket method i get great results i have been thinking about lux and lumens for 4 days now i could not get it out of my head it was driving my hunting partner nuts we hunting for black bear this weekend and he was ready to snap by the end of the 4 days i guess there is no real way to prove that lumens add up i think that CFL's provide a ton of lux while dispersing heat very well i like using CFL's but if i was growing for production then i would use HID system airoponics kicks ass unlike microsoft windows which i consider to be poop...

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I don't understand. You did or did not learn about lumens and lux from this thread? Read the sprinkler analogy about three posts ago and it should be crystal. I've given so many examples at this point that I don't know what else to tell you ... I've proven that lux add, which proves that lumens add. If you don't get the relationship between the two by now, I have to give up.

wow ceestyle you seem to be wound a bit tight for a pot smoker look i am a technical man and that means i need definite proof and thus far i have only seen some analogies which aren't proof this dose not mean you are right or wrong it just means i need to think about it i did not get this far in life by just believing some ones opinion and the analogies provided so don't take it personal.....

lastfrontier said:

wow ceestyle you seem to be wound a bit tight for a pot smoker look i am a technical man and that means i need definite proof and thus far i have only seen some analogies which aren't proof this dose not mean you are right or wrong it just means i need to think about it i did not get this far in life by just believing some ones opinion and the analogies provided so don't take it personal.....

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The reason I am so obviously irritated is that you (among others) come up with basic questions (that I answer nicely). You then come back with the same question posed several different ways, which I answer again and again ... and direct you to all the proof you need in other threads to understand it. You then come back again - obviously having not read and/or understood what I have posted - and say that it's not proof, or that you think something else.

It's called science. If you need proof, ask Newton ... or pick up a physics textbook. Trust me, it's real, and it's right. If you need proof LOOK AT THE LINKS IN MY SIGNATURE FOR THE LAST TIME. Dood, it's all in there, with scientific explanations AND proof .. the analogies are an aid to help you understand it .. at this point I hope you're fucking with me. Otherwise, you cannot read. This shit is not my opinion. If you take the physics of light in college, you will be taught this stuff, I promise.

lastfrontier said:

wow ceestyle you seem to be wound a bit tight for a pot smoker look i am a technical man and that means i need definite proof and thus far i have only seen some analogies which aren't proof this dose not mean you are right or wrong it just means i need to think about it i did not get this far in life by just believing some ones opinion and the analogies provided so don't take it personal.....

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Man, lastfrontier... GO BACK TO SCHOOL.

Not only is your grammar the worst I have seen since I watched a amputee try to type a letter but you have got to be one of the dumbest F's I have ever had the misfortune to read...

Seriously: it IS a simple concept, it IS a scientific fact and it IS obvious to any grower of any plant.

If you cant understand that I really suggest going back to school or maybe just dont smoke weed anymore, sounds like you probably dont need any help slowing down your brain!! Infact, why not go hunting? Like, I believe, many other brain dead freaks do for fun. Personally I prefer activities which dont make me want to touch my "hunting partners" penis.

Also: (quote) "...I did not get this far in life by just believing some ones opinion" Really? "..this far"??? hahaha, im guessing your not VP of a bank but anyway, as you dont believe someone's opinion I thought i'd give you mine:
I am surprised that you manage to remember where you put shoes...

Sorry man, I had to get that out. You're just so f'in stoopid

ok.. it's that time of year. most children around here are back in school.


ceestyle's experiment is some good proof that lumens do add, but I have also seen a forum regular post contradicting proof. 2 bulbs next to each other with a tester held in the middle. not very accurate and quickly done, but still enough to keep the question up in the air. do lumens add? we need irrefutable proof. one experiment proving it is a good start, but we need beyond a shadow of a doubt to put it to rest. btw, most threads and posts are just other people giving their opinion, and that doesn't have any weight at all on what is fact.